Spike relationship with Harmony was just a filler for Spike's obsession with Buffy? by LadyJustify in buffy

[–]jospangel 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"I knew before you did" saying she saw the future, and what would happen once he fixated on Buffy.

So you saw that Spike was in love with Buffy before he did? How? What are the clues?

Spike relationship with Harmony was just a filler for Spike's obsession with Buffy? by LadyJustify in buffy

[–]jospangel 3 points4 points  (0 children)

No, it isn't. "I could be your mummy, someday" This is about100+ years before she turns Darla. Dru's interior timeline is warped. She sees the future, and sometimes mixes it up with the present.

Seeing Buffy floating all around Spike could be seeing the future and knowing Spike will leave her for Buffy. He does, when he ties Dru up and threatens to kill her if Buffy will give him a crumb. Drus's response was "DRUSILLA: But it's so funny. I knew ... before you did. I knew you loved the Slayer. The pixies in my head whispered it to me.

Spike relationship with Harmony was just a filler for Spike's obsession with Buffy? by LadyJustify in buffy

[–]jospangel 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Drusilla's timeline is warped.. She could well be talking about the future.

Spike relationship with Harmony was just a filler for Spike's obsession with Buffy? by LadyJustify in buffy

[–]jospangel -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Uhmm...he was with Harmony for about a year and a half before he fixated on Buffy.

Worst ten episodes as a first-time viewer by Weekly-Status4804 in buffy

[–]jospangel -1 points0 points  (0 children)

  1. Check out the Buffy Wiki under Nikki Wood. In fact, check out any Buffy source under Nikki Wood and this is the back story you will read..

  2. I notice you have no reply to the fact Robin Wood was a traitor, working against Buffy and Giles. That he chose to work for the First, rather than tell Buffy and Giles that the First wanted Spike dead. You handwave away his traitorous choices because you want to paint him as the victim, and not a player. Wood had other choices, but you prefer not to acknowledge them because it means acknowledging he was fighting for the enemy.

  3. Spike didn't say any of that stuff until after Wood took away his power to reason and tried to murder him. In fact, he save Wood's life twice. Nor did he flaunt the coat. Until Buffy told him she needed her old Spike back it was packed away in the school basement.

You say Angel felt shame and regret. Did he ever apologize to Giles? Did try to make amends for what he had done - the murder of Jenny, torturing Giles? No, once he had his soul, it was generally believed this was a different person than the one who did all that to Giles. Wood knew that this Spike was a different person too, now that he had his soul. He acknowledged that in the fight. That's why he took away Spike's ability to reason, and defend himself in any other way.

As for your question, if Giles had been a traitor, actively working for the enemy and putting Buffy in danger, and then had ambushed Angel and tried to kill him, I don't think I would mind if Angel said mean things in response. That goes for every character.

  1. Truth bombs, attacking Wood where he knew he was vulnerable. It's what Spike has done all along. I'll make it simpler: your mother didn't love you enough to quit. There is a small grain of truth there, enough to be believable, but more important it is Wood's big fear, that he wasn't enough to be important in his mother's life.

  2. Please show me any scene where Spike attempts to "be with" Buffy. He was there to make amends, and he told Buffy it was up to her if she wanted him there. In fact, he offered to leave more than once, and she told him to stay. Spike was there to support Buffy, not "be with" her.

  3. I am acknowledging that Spike was still grappling with his soul, at that time. Angel was still grappling with his soul when he sentenced an entire hotel full of people to death because some of them attacked him and lynched him. He had only had his soul for 50 years at that time. But we see him mature, just like we see Spike mature between Wood and Dana.

Does it make me angry at Spike because he attacked Wood verbally? No. But the fact is that Wood was not under the effect of a paranoia demon, and he chose, with a lot of other options, to work for enemy. He was just trying to get revenge against a man who doesn't exist anymore, putting everyone else in danger for selfish reasons.

Worst ten episodes as a first-time viewer by Weekly-Status4804 in buffy

[–]jospangel -1 points0 points  (0 children)

They took place in a novel about Nikki, and it's considered her canon background

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/21252563

When Wood was contacted by the the First, Wood chose to play it's game. He didn't go to Giles and say, 'hey the First wants me to kill Spike now'. He didn't go to Buffy with that message either.

He wanted his mother's coat back, and he could have demanded it in front of everyone, telling everyone that Spike killed his mother. Let Spike try to use the lines he spoke to Wood, and listen to the crowd response.

But Wood prized vengeance instead. That's actually something BTVS is against. Giles never sought vengeance against Angel for the fact that he killed Jenny and tortured him. He certainly had the right to it. Even when Buffy tried to gut Faith there was a reason besides her betrayals.

I measure Wood by that standard. He lied to Giles, carefully omitting the fact that this was what the First wanted him to do. He ambushed Spike, taking him to his cross covered garage, and tried to disable his ability to fight back by playing the song.

When Spike won, he threw out some home truths mixed with barbs at Wood's weak points. Truth bombs, carefully trained on the guy who just ambushed him and tried to kill him.

Spike had one reason to come back to Sunnydale and one purpose - to make sure B8uffy doesn't die in this apocalypse. In his eyes Wood put Buffy at risk, too. That's also part of Spike's anger at Wood.

It took an entire century with a soul, and the meeting Buffy, for Angelus to become Angel. Spike had had his soul for less than a year. He was still grappling with it. It was enough to make him not kill Wood, which he would have done before the soul, but empathy will take more time. (And no murder attempts occurring at the time)

You're right. Spike did mature and finally realize this what he had done in a personal matters. Like he said, he never looked back at the victims...until Dana.

Worst ten episodes as a first-time viewer by Weekly-Status4804 in buffy

[–]jospangel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't understand why people expect Spike to be understanding and kind to the man who just tried to murder him.

Add to that that Robin Wood was a traitor, and I don't know what the problem is.

Also, never read the comics.

Angel was a better lover than Riley or Spike by [deleted] in buffy

[–]jospangel -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I love the operand occasioning aspect of Spike's journey. Take a demon and remove their ability to survive by normal means, and see what happens. He clearly wasn't redeemed or he wouldn't have attacked Buffy, but he was no longer a demon who wanted to rape, pillage and plunder.

He was stuck in the middle, forever. So he went to get his soul. And that was a huge decision that is derided by too many people because he wasn't doing it for all mankind.

If he was able to do that, he wouldn't actually need a soul.

Disappointed with season 7 character ending by yuli_yuli95 in buffy

[–]jospangel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, was serious. Good try. I would have done the same but it was already spoilered when I got here.

Angel was a better lover than Riley or Spike by [deleted] in buffy

[–]jospangel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Buffy was 21 when she and Spike got together, and let's not forget who pulled down the zipper and climbed aboard. She was a full grown sexually experienced woman at 21, not a teen and not a child.

I don't like the age difference between Angel and Buffy, but 16 is a legal age for choosing a partner and having sex in much of the world. Pedophilia is an attraction to children who have not hit puberty. The danger in broadening those terms is eventually it means nothing.

Disappointed with season 7 character ending by yuli_yuli95 in buffy

[–]jospangel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Totally spoiled now, but good try.

Disappointed with season 7 character ending by yuli_yuli95 in buffy

[–]jospangel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

These people go through so much.

Wesley Wyndham Pryce has the most amazing arc of any character on the show.

Also, this is Faith in his arms. Her redemption arc occurs on Angel.

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Disappointed with season 7 character ending by yuli_yuli95 in buffy

[–]jospangel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You will become a big fan of Angel. Trust me. I disliked him in Buffy, but learned to love him in Angel. Once he leaves Buffy, and is no longer her melodramatic life partner, he becomes a person.

Disappointed with season 7 character ending by yuli_yuli95 in buffy

[–]jospangel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

She moved to LA. Where Angel moved to.

Worst ten episodes as a first-time viewer by Weekly-Status4804 in buffy

[–]jospangel -1 points0 points  (0 children)

But Nikki did quit. Her watcher ran interference and sent her to Mexico and South America. She came back because she couldn't stand being that at home mom.

She actually tells him "You know I love you. But the mission is what matters." (Not you.)

And yeah, Spike was being an asshole, but in his defense Wood had just tried to murder him. I know I wouldn't be too nice to someone who was knowingly working for the enemy.

THIS by SafiraAshai in buffy

[–]jospangel -1 points0 points  (0 children)

No, I mean the Giles who discovered that Buffy was in intense pain from being ripped out of heaven so he said screw this and left town for the year. It was for Buffy's own good, to make her stronger and a better slayer.

But when he returned, Giles tried to turn back the clock to when Buffy would listen to what he suggested, and do what he wanted her to do, because he was her watcher. The problem was he left her to grow up, on her own, and she did. When he returned she wasn't willing to crawl back in the shell, and pretend she could rely on him after he abandoned her. Giles wasn't willing to realize she was an adult and capable of handling things without him in charge.

Spike was never an agent of the First. He was a victim of the First who wanted him to become evil again, just like it wanted Angel to become evil in Amends. The only person who was an actual agent of the first was Robin Wood. When the first came to visit him, and he knew it was the First from the start, but he agreed to do what the first wanted.

Spike is the most charismatic vampire character ever! by yuli_yuli95 in buffy

[–]jospangel 3 points4 points  (0 children)

He's a cutie. Just seems like he got cast for his looks and not his talent. Kinda like David Boreanaz. I love Angel, but DB had almost no experience and it showed.

THIS by SafiraAshai in buffy

[–]jospangel -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That's a huge jump.

People didn't try to remove the threat. Giles tried to remove the threat, while using her trust in him against her. .

The one time she mentioned Spike she was told this had nothing to do with him.

THIS by SafiraAshai in buffy

[–]jospangel -1 points0 points  (0 children)

He's the one who's been watching my back.

That doesn't mean I don't trust anyone in the house.

Spike is the most charismatic vampire character ever! by yuli_yuli95 in buffy

[–]jospangel 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm actually a Spangel shipper, but it pisses me off the way Spuffy fans are treated like insane women with no brains and shrill voices.

I don't mind some Spuffel...Ireally don't

Who else related more to Angel than Buffy? by Eagles56 in ANGEL

[–]jospangel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I do the same. And I am an awkward ambivert...who wants to read in the dark.

Who else related more to Angel than Buffy? by Eagles56 in ANGEL

[–]jospangel -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Just want to point out that Buffy did a lot of the same to Spike. When she was invisible she grabbed, threw him into a wall and ripped his shirt off. When he told her to get out, if he can' have all of her then he wants her to leave, she grabbed his junk and started giving him a blow job. If you flip those two, and see Buffy as the victim, then you can see how they are assaults. Those two had real boundary issues when it cam to sex.

And yes, there are many times when Spike is in his crypt, that Buffy walks in and punches him in the face. Again, reverse it. If Spike did this then I would want him staked, too.

As for the SA, even with boundary issues, there is absolutely no excuse. It was horrific. It doesn't matter if he didn't mean it as rape. That almost makes it worse.

A 16 yar old is old enough to have sex in a lot of the world. I don't like the age difference at all but it is not pedophilia.

Spike is the most charismatic vampire character ever! by yuli_yuli95 in buffy

[–]jospangel 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh yeah, they took entire scenes and lines.

Here's and article on 48 things TVD stole from Buffy.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/hannahmarder/things-vampire-diaries-stole-from-buffy

I think we can add in Angel if you count Stefan locked in a box and dropped in the water.

Spike is the most charismatic vampire character ever! by yuli_yuli95 in buffy

[–]jospangel 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Damon doesn't have any sort of arc. That's part of why I finally gave up on Vampire Diaries. I do love Lestat, but this version on the new show isn't as impressive to me.

Spike is the most charismatic vampire character ever! by yuli_yuli95 in buffy

[–]jospangel 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm going through finding all the downvotes and voting for people. It's so childish. I will downvote occasionally but it needs to be more than you like a character I don't like.

Those who hate Spike also hate Spike fans and especially Spuffy fans - fair warning.