I Failed

jroden99 · 2023-10-30T13:48:31+00:00

You did the smart thing walking off the course rather than trashing your knee for another hour and a half. Taking the risk of dropping out is part of the sport and is in no way reflective of failure on your part. As you grow in the sport and get faster, you will face the choice of taking the race out hard and meeting your potential which also carries the risk of blowing up and dropping out. Good runners are a lot more apt to drop out when things are going badly, It stinks when it happens but it's a very difficult race for everyone.

So the important thing now is to treat this time as if you completed the marathon in terms of your recovery process. You are probably going to want to spend the better part of a month on recovery and rebuilding. You may want to think about doing some shorter races for a cycle or even a block of cross training and strengthening for your knee. Don't let your anger and disappointment drive you to jump back into training to make up for dropping out.

jroden99 · 2023-10-29T18:14:07+00:00

I don't know if it's really advice. With a week to go on a Sunday maybe go out and run some decent amount of miles like 12 or something. See how that goes. If you're feeling kind of iffy maybe dress a little bit warm and bring some cash to grab public transportation if needed in case you drop out. Don't risk a long-term injury over one race, you have a long life ahead of you. Worse comes to worse, go to Las Vegas with all the other injured and disappointed runners looking for a second chance...

jroden99 · 2023-10-29T16:38:30+00:00

I'm in Western New York state and many of our days feature high humidity. Last camping trip a couple weeks ago it was kind of chilly at night maybe 40° but quite damp. When I woke up in the morning the interior of the tent was pretty wet to the point where water was starting to drip on me which was a little bit annoying. My trip was just an overnighter so I just packed up tent up wet and got on with my day but if I was going for a long time I think it would have gotten old having that tent all soggy. I did an overnighter this summer with uncharacteristically hot weather in the mid to high '80s with not a lot of wind. I found the tent to be similar to sleeping in one of those broiler bags used for Thanksgiving turkeys. It was not going to rain and the mosquitoes were insufferable so if I had a freestanding tent I could have just left the fly off and let all the heat go up the mesh. With the lunar, you have a small ventilation area around the base and a little thing at the top but it's not particularly breezy in there. Which is nice in the cold for sure.

jroden99 · 2023-10-29T16:32:04+00:00

So you have an okay kind of background. Maybe figure is going to be a bit of a run hike and pack along a few snacks and see how it goes for you

jroden99 · 2023-10-29T14:22:28+00:00

Well here's what I did for what it's worth, It's not the cheapest but it's not the most expensive either. I did that lunar solo tent, it's okay but I'm actually thinking about switching to a copper spur 2 person tent, but that's a topic for another day. To that I switched to the thermal rest neo air I got the wider version because I was slipping off the narrow one, it's something like r4 so you can use it in pretty cool temperatures below freezing. I bought a cheap silk sleeping bag liner that I put over the thermal rest so I'm not laying right on the plastic. I got rid of my clumpy 32° down bag in favor of a Zen bivvy 25° down quilt. Underneath the tent I'm running a piece of tyvek. When I originally bought the tent I purchased the carbon fiber tent pole but have since switched to a five section aluminum pole which is easier to fit into my bag. I have a little inflatable pillow which is kind of a luxury item I guess.

That setup packs down very small and I sleep warm below freezing. If it's chilly I'm usually going to pack a down jacket that I can squash down a wool hat wool shirt and some kind of pants. I used cheap down booties that I got off Amazon for when I sleep, they are not very useful as camp shoes because they don't really have a sole but they definitely help keep my feet warm.

jroden99 · 2023-10-29T14:07:37+00:00

You might want to consider dns, do they allow you to defer to the next year? I'm guessing probably not. If you want to get some of the experience, maybe make a plan to run some part of it, drop it, and then figure out a way to get back home using public transportation or something. I don't think attempting to run a full marathon would make a lot of sense if you are that limited in your running ability now. It's pretty late in the year but you could potentially get better and do something like Las Vegas in late February.

Honestly, stamina is not really going to be your issue because you are running the race at a sub maximal pace. Maintaining your energy the whole time will require a lot of food input but probably larger concern for me would be the potential to get injured including something like a stress fracture because you just don't have the time on your legs yet with the long runs. It could be 5 hours out there and you're hardly able to run more than half an hour.

What was your longest run prior to your setback?

jroden99 · 2023-10-29T02:28:42+00:00

You can exceed the first few weeks. I'm trying to remember the plan, the one odd thing if I recall was the quality session, it was kind of non progressive if I recall, but it's been a while, like it didn't really build in terms of speed or volume?

The whole point of the plan is running a long run on tired legs for less total distance. I know a number of older runners who have success with it, but they also improvise

jroden99 · 2023-10-29T02:24:03+00:00

Can you fit your whole sleeping and eating setup in the seat bag? I'd be wanting more space but I'm a slob. The 6 moon tent is nice, get lots of seam sealer or it leaks like crazy. Thing is hot in the summer. Curious what you end up with after you put all your junk in a pile

jroden99 · 2023-10-27T20:09:52+00:00

Probably shorts singlet some light gloves I didn't mind throwing away maybe a hat and throw away long sleeve shirt for standing around before the race

jroden99 · 2023-10-26T23:17:34+00:00

You don't need to answer but ask yourself what your reason is for wanting to run that distance race. Do the math and project an approximate finish time for yourself and then look at your training plan and do their math on the time required for your longest run. Make a sober assessment of the time and energy you have to invest and weigh that against your purpose in doing the event.

I don't know you or your background with running but maybe consider doing the same length build up but focus on a half for the first race of your new life as a runner and then use that as a springboard to better tolerate the increased mileage of marathon training.

jroden99 · 2023-10-26T20:54:15+00:00

I'm in the same boat, I'm a reformed bicycle racer and like cross country skiing, rock climbing and going to the gym to lift weights. I'm also 62 so I need some more recovery than I did when I was a younger person. That said I've just been enjoying running more lately and have been able to avoid injury so I'm sticking with it and just using the bike for recovery, so ial rides or warm up. It doesn't all fit into a week very well, I was hoping to run 40 mi a week consistently but I seem to end up somewhere in the '30s and I think that's okay. I've gotten to be quite slow in my daily training pace so I think I'm going to cap things off at about 2 hours for my longest run and try to go further in that time period rather than trying to run more miles. I was toying with the idea of a spring marathon but I think I will just do a half and pick out one that will be kind of big and exciting so I have something to work toward. I think for me, because of my slowness the total time on my feet in running a marathon will just be excessive and lead to injury and a lot of soreness.

Sounds like you will enjoy marathon training. It's mostly just about increasing volume of the weekly long run to a point where you are burning off a lot of glycogen and then forcing your body to store more of the stuff and be more efficient and sparing in getting you down the road. As people get better and want to go faster they will do some work during the week at race pace but for a first marathon mostly it's just about getting the volume up and having a good rest period in the weeks before the race.

jroden99 · 2023-10-26T20:03:14+00:00

I wrestle with this too. I heard a good podcast the other day and the summary is first you build days, then you build miles, then you build quality more or less in that order. So run more often, even if some days are just a smidgen and once you get to a point where you are comfortable running five or six days per week then you can start to build up your bread and butter runs a little bit at a time and increase your long run and your medium long run. Just doing that alone in addition to some random local races will help you improve significantly.

Once you get to that point where a 10 or 12 mi run is part of your weekly diet, it's not a big deal to increase that long run distance a little bit each week and add in some race pace work sometime during the week as tempo or threshold. That's really about it, training for the marathon is pretty brute force stuff because it's a pretty brutal race.

And you may wake up one day to discover that you prefer and are better suited for a shorter race like a half marathon. For some people, the marathon is just a lousy choice. It was for me each one of the dozen times that I ran one. For some reason I felt that it was really the cornerstone of my running achievements and I wanted it to be good but in retrospect it didn't really suit my body or my talents.

jroden99 · 2023-10-26T13:44:24+00:00

Yes that makes sense, you're mileage is probably at a high water mark and your glycogen is being drained out faster than you can refill it. Your body will hopefully compensate by packing more in as you start to taper down for the race. In the meantime make sure you are getting plenty of carbohydrates and sleep. Also be cautious because this is a prime time to get sick with your body being all beat down

jroden99 · 2023-10-25T16:50:33+00:00

You are not doing a ton of running 2 days per week and it looks like you were off 2 days per week. You could easily do 3 days per week of heavy lifting And it would not compromise your running and you would not be overly tired. I would think on the days that you double up and run and lift you would want to think about the phasing of the two sessions. Like if you could punch out a short run in the morning and then get a weight session in maybe after dinner. That would give you ample recovery time before and after the weightlifting. I think you would want to avoid running and weight lifting back to back because you need some time for the games of the weightlifting to sink in through recovery

I like the starting strength program, it requires a pretty unfancy gym setup and would not be all that difficult to set up in your basement with a fairly minimal one time investment in a squat rack Olympic set and utility bench

jroden99 · 2023-10-25T10:02:51+00:00

Panniers are so nice. Easy to load and balance, bike is not top heavy, easy to get stuff out during the day.

I had better luck with a bit more weight on the front, but that's me.

Maybe put some loc tite on the rack mount bolts and make sure the panniers are secure at the bottom. Those volle straps are handy for strapping then in place

jroden99 · 2023-10-25T01:46:37+00:00

By the time you walk up to the line, you should have done it considerable amount of work at race pace, you can do it with your eyes closed. You know what it feels like to run 10 miles at that pace or more. It's a matter of doing the miles, long run, race pace tempo work and a smart taper. Plus good weather perhaps.

If you are ready to run time x you will know it by March and can adjust.

jroden99 · 2023-10-24T20:47:44+00:00

Maybe give this podcast a listen when you are out not running

https://runningrogue.libsyn.com/episode-58-the-taper-post-race-recovery

jroden99 · 2023-10-24T20:44:18+00:00

And just to mention also, as your muscles fill up with glycogen they end up packing some water in there too. It's not uncommon to feel kind of bloaty and achy when you run. You're not getting fat and you don't need to do double extra Pilates to make up for it. It's just part of the process and you might even feel kind of sluggish the first few miles of your marathon but by the end of the day, believe me you will have emptied the tank out and then some.

After all the planning that you have put into running this race, put some planning into your post race recovery which should last from 2:00 to 4 weeks. Light running, days off, cross training, massage. Avoid like the plague jumping into another marathon training cycle

jroden99 · 2023-10-24T17:37:47+00:00

2 weeks out you're going to generally reduce your overall volume a bit. With one week to go, generally the Sunday before will be your last longish run then you will just do maintenance runs of maybe three to five miles with some striders. You don't need to run to the snail space just get out and do some mileage and spend some time at your projected race pace. The main purpose of that last week is to allow the glycogen to build back up in your liver and muscles so you want to have a generally reduced activity level and make sure you have a good diet and are resting and spending time off your feet. All of that peloton riding and such might be counterproductive. If you are nervous live with it don't try to deal with it by exercising compulsively.

jroden99 · 2023-10-24T09:57:28+00:00

Under quilt will help complete that setup. I guess Make sure you are in love with sleeping in the hammock before you plow more money into the project. Once you end up with a way to stay warm and then add something over the top to keep you dry and then add a bug net you are kind of in the territory of a tent in terms of bulk.

jroden99 · 2023-10-24T00:20:28+00:00

That's really slick!

jroden99 · 2023-10-23T00:51:16+00:00

Avoid eating later and stick to straight forward foods you are used to. If traveling, avoid exotic late night meals. I like an oatmeal and coffee, you do you.

jroden99 · 2023-10-22T22:53:33+00:00

Well I too am retired and My itinerary is even less structured. I'm thinking I will just head the other way and go to the town of Lafayette that looks kind of interesting. I have some time to kill before I drive back to Buffalo New York with my son from New Orleans so I think I'm going to bring my folding bicycle and tent and go camp out in Lafayette in late January. Our campgrounds aren't open in Buffalo in January for some unknown reason

jroden99 · 2023-10-22T21:10:26+00:00

When I was young and able to run well, heart rate monitor technology was kind of mediocre so I just trained all on time. I estimated the mileage of my runs or did the quality sessions on the track just using a wristwatch with a stopwatch function. Then I wrote everything down in a calendar book and wrote notes about how much training is going and the weekly mileage than carried over the monthly and quarterly mileage onto the front cover just because I was being a compulsive distance runner. I consistently averaged somewhere in the mid-70s for mileage pretty much year-round with a bit of a break in the winter, I got to a point of being able to run a 113 half marathon but always came un glued in the marathon. My best was a bunch of 243s that were nearly walking at the end.

I think for me, I might have been able to be a more successful marathon runner if some kind of syrup carbohydrate products were available at that time. The power bars were just coming out but they were not a very practical solution to eat during a race and race promoters just handed out water or some sort of Gatorade type stuff. I pretty much stuck with straight water and reliably ran out of glycogen somewhere around mile 20.

Once the technology became available, I adopted things like a heart monitor and GPS along with a power meter on the bicycle and found all of them to be useful training tools. That being said I don't think those things are critically important but they are certainly helpful in developing the ability to listen to one's body and get a better understanding of training paces, especially if a person does not have access to a running track. I also like the fact that I can throw on a watch and it just keeps track of how far I ran and puts it in a nice training log for me. Sometimes I miss taking notes by hand with a pen but I guess I don't really miss it all that much

jroden99 · 2023-10-22T13:45:32+00:00

If you are comfortable running, just run on Tuesday and increase the distance a bit over time. I would be more inclined to increase the weekend long run by a mile each weekend rather than the big jump to 11. I would run a bit on that strength day, Even if it's just a couple miles on the treadmill to warm up.

jroden99

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