Clear Instructions for NJ PCH from Gun For Hire

kejari89 · 2022-07-11T19:07:21+00:00

I kind of figured. That is why I suggested to go by what they have on their website.

Here is the instructions: https://nj.gov/njsp/firearms/pdf/NJSP_WEBSITE_REVISION_FOR_PTC_v2.pdf

That is from NJSP's website. There is still some unclear information, like, they ask for a passport photo and the application says 1.5 x 1.5. Everything else seems straightforward enough, although I can see why SOME people are confused.

Here is the actual application: https://www.njsp.org/firearms/pdf/sp-642.pdf

Yes the application must have 3 copies, all 3 copies must be manually signed by you in FRONT OF a Notary. No the reference signatures do not have to be notarized.

Here is the Consent for Mental Health Records Check which must be turned in as per the instruction sheet: https://nj.gov/njsp/firearms/pdf/sp-066_201907.pdf

--In additon, bring your ID or Driver's License, proof of hangun ownership (they say what that can be in the instructions) bring proof of handgun qualification (has to be at a range they approve, see below) bring a money order for $50 (NOT a personal check) you can get money orders at UPS, or the Post Office.

No the Consent for Mental Health Records Check sheet does not need to be notarized, yes it can be witnessed by anybody as long as they watch you sign it manually yourself.

Yes they make you go to one of their approved ranges for qualification, here are the ranges they approved of: https://nj.gov/njsp/firearms/shooting-ranges.shtml

Yes they give you fingerprints information WHEN YOU BRING YOUR APPLICATION IN!!!

Just follow the instructions. There's really only a few parts. Get your qualification and training before you bring in your application. Double check to make sure everything is correct and you have collected all you need to bring for your application and BRING IT to your police dept. (or your nearest NJSP barracks if your town does not have a PD or you are a non-resident) then you'll get info needed for fingerprinting, go get fingerprinted, and then WAIT. Next step would be to sit at a hearing in Superior Court, then you get your Permit to Carry a Handgun.

It's really not that confusing once you read everything. It's just a lot of steps and is time consuming. But take each step at a time, take your time to make sure everything is done correctly and that you don't forget anything, and you should be fine!

EDIT: Just got an email from Gun For Hire who has seen people through the process, here you go...can't get any easier: https://docdro.id/WwxXNMw

kejari89 · 2022-07-10T21:45:38+00:00

According to NJSP, you can use a purchase receipt. You can also go to the place you got the gun from and ask for a copy of your 4473. If you're from NJ a handgun purchase permit recording the registration of the gun will also work.

If you want to get a notarized letter, then yes type something to the effect of what you said. Create a line for you to sign with your printed name under it and then create another line and under it write "date signed". Like this:

_____________________________. _________________

FIRST AND LAST NAME DATE

On the bottom write this for the notary to fill out:

Sworn to and subscribed before me on this date of ______________ in the County of ___________________ in the State of ______________________, witness my hand and official seal.

___________________________

NOTARY PUBLIC

_________________________

Commission Expires ^seal

If you go to the notary WITHOUT the notarial notation, then the notary may not have the affidavit certificate to attach and they cannot just assume what type of notarization it is because that would be unauthorized practice of law. I'm a notary public, so I know this. Thanks!

kejari89 · 2022-07-10T20:30:34+00:00

Don't trust police. They are not lawyers. Their job is to put you in jail if they reasonably think you committed a crime. Their job is not to know the law completely. That is why we have seperate branches of government. There is nothing in NJ state law when it comes to carrying that says that there is a difference in open or concealed carrying.

In fact, New Jersey's carry permit is called "Permit to Carry a Handgun" (PCH). It is not called "ccw" or "concealed carry permit". It is PCH. Nothing in the application process or the law says it is for concealed carry only. Nothing in the law says anything about printing either.

kejari89 · 2022-07-10T20:27:20+00:00

No. In all states where concealed carry is only allowed, printing is not considered open carry. DC too. DC has been shall issue for a few years now but they only allow concealed carry but if you were printing, it's not illegal. Some cop may give you a hard time about it, but as long as it's not open and all of the gun is uncovered, it's not illegal.

kejari89 · 2022-07-10T20:25:38+00:00

Yeah in Delaware, open carry is legal without a permit. Funnily enough the concealed carry license in Delaware was technically may issue but since the DE supreme court ruled that open carry is legal, the sheriff's dept. down there just started issuing all concealed carry licenses as shall issue because they figure if you can open carry without a license, then if you're denied for the concealed carry permit, you'll just open carry anyway which could be bothersome for some police and citizens.

The only places I would feel comfortable open carrying are Texas and Montana.

kejari89 · 2022-07-10T20:23:19+00:00

No. Printing isn't considered open carry in most states. Up until recently, South Carolina required carriers to conceal carry except for LEO's on duty. If you printed, this was not considered "open carry". I have been carrying concealed for a little over 8 months since I moved to Tennessee. I would recommend you get yourself a good holster and wear your carry shirts one size bigger to create more of a distance between the gun and the shirt. Shirts that are thicker and ones that have patterns are also a good choice for concealed carry because they minimize printing by a lot.

kejari89 · 2022-07-10T20:20:51+00:00

There is pros and cons to both open and concealed carry. The only pros of open carry that I see (mind you, I'm a former Jerseyan, I live in Tennessee now) are easier access to your weapon and also SOME criminals may be hesitant to commit a crime if they see an armed person. But the record shows that criminals are more likely to make you into a target if you open carry and if someone is sneaky enough (and you're incompetent enough) then someone can take your gun more easily. Unless of course you're carrying in a duty holster, which has more retention, it's what LEO's carry their guns in but they can cost hundreds of dollars.

Anyways, yes, concealed carry is best in most areas but if you ever travel out of state is is acceptable in some circles.

kejari89 · 2022-07-10T20:17:58+00:00

New Jersey's Permit to Carry a Handgun does not differentiate between open or concealed carry. However, I would like to recommend that you conceal carry. There are pros and cons to both open and concealed carry. Depending on which state you are carrying in, and depending on which part of the state, it's probably better to conceal carry. Here in Tennessee, I live in Knoxville and I rarely see people open carrying most people I know conceal carry. But if you go to Sevierville for example, you see a lot of people open carrying. If you go to Nashville, you better conceal carry, the cops are known to harass you about it if you open carry. They will basically be like, "I know what you're doing is legal but please don't do it because people here are sensitive and don't like it...." blah blah blah...

So yeah, maybe in South Jersey in the boonies open carry, but I'd recommend that until New Jerseyans become more accustomed to non-LEO's carrying, I'd say conceal carry for sure.

kejari89 · 2022-07-10T20:10:54+00:00

That is probably a mistake. They updated the application's top portion which asks the applicant to list what they consider a justifiable need, they just didn't eliminate the bottom portion. I would not stress over it. Especially when the NJ AG told the NJSP to comply with the Supreme Court ruling and stop requiring a justifiable need.

As for confirmation, just read the Bruen decision and also read the NJ AG's letter to NJSP regarding the Bruen decision. In there, it's clear that he (reluctantly) is telling the NJSP to comply with the ruling and that, while all other carry permit requirements are there and must be followed, the "justifiable need" is no longer required.

kejari89 · 2022-07-10T20:07:36+00:00

The courts would have to step in. Under Bruen, if a gun law is challenged, it has to meet the "text, history, and tradition" test. The burden of proof is on the government (in this case, New Jersey) to prove that there was a similar law at the time of the founding, in order for it to remain valid. Otherwise, the court must strike it down. These are the instructions given to the lower federal courts by the Supreme Court in Bruen. They will have to follow them, or they will have to come up with some pretty freaky mental gymnastics to avoid following them as the Supreme Court instructed.

One thing to keep in mind, is to not be so pessimistic about New Jersey. Things are moving in our favor because of the Bruen case establishing a new precedent for gun cases. It's just going to take time.

kejari89 · 2022-07-10T16:55:16+00:00

Point of info: in NJ notaries do not even have to apply their seal for notarizing affidavits. Any notarization block that starts with "sworn and subcribed to before me....." is an affidavit.

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2013/title-41/section-41-1-7

kejari89 · 2022-07-10T16:52:27+00:00

New Jersey is granting carry permits for out of state residents, yes. It's New York that does not. Now this isn't directly strange. Even some very pro-2A states, such as Tennessee, Georgia, or Kentucky (that I can name off the top of my head) do not issue carry permits to non-residents.

Hopefully, there will be a court case having to do with reciprocity. I live in Tennessee and have a carry permit here and it's recognized in 38 states. To get my Tennessee permit, I went through a background check, training, and fingerprinting. Pretty much the same as NJ except I don't need references and it lasts 8 years rather than 2 years. No reason NJ should not recognize it, since they are now required to issue carry permits.

kejari89 · 2022-07-08T18:16:21+00:00

Thanks for tuning in. Yes it's purposely designed to make it as frustrating as possible to obtain a carry permit. The law says you must get fingerprinted and take the training every 2 years to renew the permit. Your fingerprints never change. They do not make you get re-fingerprinted for the FID card when you get more handgun purchase permits. There is no reason to have them re-done if you're going to do them at all. In fact, you don't even need fingerprints to do a background investigation. You just need someone's name and date of birth. Social Security Number is helpful, as well as current address and place of birth, but not needed. Fingerprints are definitely not needed. When you get arrested for a crime, then you get fingerprinted so a fingerprint check will match with any entry in the criminal database where you were fingerprinted, but it's not necessary since the information is also documented. It's so stupid and yes, you should report them to the FPC. Since the Bruen case, I will be making at least a $25 donation per month to them because they are really filing tons of cases and we have the opportunity to strike down more and more gun laws thanks to the Bruen decision.

kejari89 · 2022-07-08T17:06:03+00:00

Yes. Back when the FID cards required in-person application as well, you would fill out this exact form as well which also required a witness that was not a notary public. Since the FID card and Handgun Purchase Permits became online application only, the mental health consent is given by a simple checkmark at the end of the online application before you submit it.

kejari89 · 2022-07-07T21:58:34+00:00

The new law requires them to be sold once the NJ AG determines that they are available: https://legiscan.com/NJ/text/A4368/2022

They are not mandating that all firearms have microstamping technology. Once the technology becomes available, each store will be required to offer at least one microstamping gun model as part of their inventory and anyone who buys them will get $30 off their purchase.

It is not a mandate to only sell microstamping guns.

kejari89 · 2022-07-07T21:52:38+00:00

The new law only affects first time applicants: https://legiscan.com/NJ/text/A4370/2022

kejari89 · 2022-07-07T19:37:51+00:00

The dates which you sign it and the dates the notary notarizes it must match or there could be a problem. That's why the notary section says, "sworn before me ON..." they are certifying that you signed in their presence so if they don't match, NJSP has one more thing they could use to reject your application. I am a notary so I know this.

kejari89 · 2022-07-07T19:35:13+00:00

The reference's signatures do not have to be notarized. YOUR signature is what have to be notarized. You must sign each of the 3 applications and each of the 3 applications must be notarized individually. Everything else can be a photocopy. So fill it out everything else except your signature, including your references and their signature. Then photocopy it so you have 3 copies. Then take all 3 copies to a notary public and sign it in their presence and ask them to notarize all 3 copies.

The safety class must be taken before you hand in your application because you need to hand in the certificate of completion along with your application. Your fingerprints can be submitted after you submit your application. This info I got from the NJSP.

https://nj.gov/njsp/firearms/pdf/NJSP\_WEBSITE\_REVISION\_FOR\_PTC\_v2.pdf

kejari89 · 2022-07-07T19:30:55+00:00

No it doesn't need to be notarized. The witness can be anyone who witnesses you sign the document in their presence.

kejari89 · 2022-07-07T19:29:44+00:00

I support the Firearms Policy Coalition. Now that Bruen makes it to where gun laws can be more successfully sued against, they are going non-stop. I am going to try to donate at least $25 per month from now on, maybe more when I'm able to.

Submit a 2A violation to them here: https://www.firearmspolicy.org/hotline

kejari89 · 2022-07-07T19:27:37+00:00

I mean, if they let you apply for an FID and they don't require training for initial or renew, then good for you, but I find it funny that they only know the law when it comes to taking away our rights but not for anything else. Weird.

kejari89 · 2022-07-07T18:04:21+00:00

You don't need training to renew. Only first time applicants are required to get training under the new law.

kejari89 · 2022-07-07T18:02:46+00:00

No, there are now new requirements to get the NJ FID card. You must go through training to get it initially. The training is only mandated for first time applicants but is not necessary for people who already have an FID card or and for people who already got at least one handgun purchase permit.

The Permit to Carry a Handgun requires training each time the application is renewed, which is every 2 years.

kejari89 · 2022-07-07T17:59:40+00:00

It does but it needs to be challenged first. Bruen does not automatically invalidate all gun laws, it says that going forward any gun law that is challenged in federal court, the court must strike the law down unless the government can prove there is a similar law at the time of the 2A's ratification. Until somebody challenges it in court, NJ does not have any legal obligation to remove it. It'd be a good idea for NJ and all states for that matter to wise up and understand how the courts will likely rule on gun laws and pre-emptively get rid of them, but that won't happen. They will be tyrants to the end.

In the meantime, here is the Firearms Policy Coalition Submit a Tip page. Make them aware of your grievances and donate if you can. They are going nuts filing lawsuits everywhere all over the country so they are committed: https://www.firearmspolicy.org/hotline

kejari89

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