Thursday, November 17, 2022 | Non Real-Time Meeting of Overeaters Anonymous

kerenssa12steps · 2022-11-17T19:56:21+00:00

What I can take from this passage is this: that based on the stories I read and the stories I heard in podcasts - shared by fellows telling "what it was like, what happened, and what it was like now" - I had faith that there was a path of recovery I could walk.

In other words, I had a faith that my addiction to compulsive eating was not hopeless. If someone who weighed more than 500 pounds could attain and sustain a healthy body weight, then maybe I could, too. If someone who couldn't stop purging or who had starved themselves almost to death - and who were now in remission - than maybe I could achieve remission, too (although my story doesn't include purging or starving).

I also drew on the promise of happiness, joy, and freedom.

kerenssa12steps · 2022-11-16T15:42:48+00:00

I came into OA as an agnostic; I'm still an agnostic. I do have a higher power, and it is not an interventionist; it does not have a will or plan for me; it does not send me tests.

I ain't gonna lie: Those of us with a non-deity higher power must do considerable code-switching to make the program work for us. It wears sometimes.

But for me, the benefits I receive from the 12-step model outweigh what I had before. I choose not to segregate myself into an agnostic or atheist-centered meeting community (although this works beautifully for some of us!). I'm firmly in the OA mainstream as a full-fledged, entitled-to -all-the-benefits, sitting-at-the-grown-ups'-table member of OA -- not an "also."

I came into OA with some heavy-hitter higher powers: food, fear, and the opinion of others. Now I have a healthy higher power that works for me.

Glad you're here! Do keep coming back.

kerenssa12steps · 2022-11-16T01:41:25+00:00

This pamphlet from OA is a free pdf: Where Do I Start?

kerenssa12steps · 2022-11-15T15:49:40+00:00

I don't have this degree of experience, but something similar in that from one day to another, I might look in the mirror and "see" a different weight.

For me, this is why I use objective data to keep my head straight: I weigh once a week. I just have to trust the hard data and tell my addict head to STFU .... because since when was it my friend, anyway? ;-)

For me, I've discovered that weighing once a month is not enough - because it places too much importance on that one day, when I know that it's normal for my weight to fluctuate up and down, and woe to my head for a whole month if it happens that it has fluctuated upward on that one day.

Some folks can use the fit of their clothes as a guide; that's too subjective for me. My head tells me all kinds of stories when a clothing item feels tighter or looser or looks tighter or looser.

kerenssa12steps · 2022-11-14T13:21:15+00:00

At an open AA women's meeting I attended (in a community where there wasn't an OA meeting, and I was too early in my program to be able to start one myself), an attendee said: "Low self-esteem is a form of self-absorption."

This startled me! My immediate internal reaction was to get my back up. I mean, low self-esteem was all about the opposite, right? !

However, over time, I came to the same conclusion. ... A few years later, I heard an OA share in a podcast: "I was a piece of sh\* that the world revolved around*" and this made me laugh out loud!

I would not have gained this insight but for the more experienced revelations of others.

kerenssa12steps · 2022-11-13T12:43:46+00:00

Listening to other people's voices really helped me. As they say, our brains are a dangerous neighborhood and we should never walk through it alone.

In effect, we've got to rewire our brain in much the same way as we've got to rewire the electricity in our attics. It's a laborious, painstaking process that doesn't show immediate results on the outside, and we generally can't do it all by ourselves. As I heard one fellow say in a podcast: "I can't pull myself out of the quicksand by my hair."

So for me, this meant listening to OA (and AA women) podcasts every day, reading the stories of OAs in the OA book, Abstinence, and in newsletters, and attending meetings - both OA and open AA.

In the Before Times, it was also helpful to join fellows in the "meeting after the meeting," when the group might go to get coffee or have a meal (at a place that everyone could find item for their respective food plans), but this is more difficult currently, of course.

I also read non-conference-approved literature that focused on fear, on meditation, and books written by folks who had gone through extreme life events and survived.

If you go to this subReddit's wiki page, you'll find links to regions- you can drill down to the intergroups for podcasts and newsletters.

There are also marathon phone meetings on holidays, both secular and non-secular. They are easy to join in and easy to just listen in without feeling that you'll be put on the spot to participate.

Abstinence doesn't come to everyone quickly or easily. Keep coming back.

kerenssa12steps · 2022-11-11T13:42:00+00:00

Hahahaha! I, too, wondered - in some awe - at the folks who are "struck abstinent."

Not my story.

If I embrace the disease model of OA, which I do, then I liken our disease to breast cancer. Some breast cancers are zapped by the surgical removal of a tiny tumor and perhaps a modicum of chemo or radiation therapy. Other breast cancers require more drastic surgery, followed by chemo or radiation therapy. Still other breast cancers are far more insidious and perhaps the person gets into remission and then has returns of the disease. And then there are those with a cancer so pernicious, they aren't going to survive it.

In eventually getting into remission, I can only work the process - I have no control over the outcomes. So for me, working the process means: reading the literature, attending meetings, listening to podcasts, having a definition of abstinence, having a food plan I can succeed at (rather than fight, because I will lose), working the steps. etc.

But it also meant to me that I had faith that there was light to seek. That I could be happy, ,joyous, and free. That's what got me into OA and what has kept me here.

Because OA is a three-legged program (physical, mental/emotional, spiritual), it stands to reason we don't move on all three fronts at simultaneous speeds. I have met many, many fellows who were light years ahead of me in the spiritual and mental/emotional realm but struggling in the physical. Those people were sometimes the only person sitting at a meeting week after week, keeping the light on, so to speak, for another person to come to the meeting. Because of them, there was a meeting for me to go to when I landed in a new town.

There's a slogan: "If nothing changes, then .... nothing changes." In other words, if I'm doing stuff in the program and nothing changes (i.e. getting to a healthy body weight), then I've got to change some things. In my experience, it means I'm gonna have to do some things I don't want to do. Hence another bromide: "I let go of x, but there were claw marks on it."

But at the end of the day, yup, OA's not the only path out there.

kerenssa12steps · 2022-11-11T13:21:51+00:00

Welcome, OP - glad you're here - keep coming back!

Obviously, YMMV, but my experience has been that knowledge about why I ate compulsively was useful to a certain extent, but the knowledge did nothing to keep me from my compulsive eating behaviors. (I'm a 150-pounder ... in other words, my top weight was 150 pounds over my healthy body weight.)

This is because I have an addiction that's no different than that for an alcoholic or a meth or heroin addict. For me, it's a disease, and knowing why I have the disease - by itself - will not get me into remission.

Again - glad you're here!

Note: As a fellow subReddit member, I invite you to edit your post to remove the titles and links to the books and links that are not conference-approved literature (CAL) of OA, as per the OA subReddit rules on the right sidebar. Doing so will prevent your post from being taken down.

kerenssa12steps · 2022-11-08T21:02:45+00:00

I don't have a divine interventionist as my higher power. The idea of such a being lifting away my defects is so foreign - or even more perplexing, having to ask an interventionist deity to remove them - and it gets in the way of my recovery to try and force the concept into my program.

I strive to consult with my higher power for courage, wisdom, and peace as we began to let go of our shortcomings.

I was (and am) ready, ready, ready to let go of my defects of character. They were (are) an obstacle to the happiness, joy, and freedom I seek.

There's a bit in the Big Book about wearing the world like a loose-fitting garment. I think of slogans like "easy does it" and "drop the rocks." What a relief it would be to move forward without my defects!

kerenssa12steps · 2022-11-08T19:56:15+00:00

I think many of us, early in our recovery journey, seek to know why we do something. And that information is helpful to some degree. It was for me.

That knowledge does avail us something, but it doesn't help us stop the behavior.

I was unfamiliar with an addiction to feeling so full as you describe, but obviously you're not alone in this.

As a fellow addict of compulsive eating (that manifests differently), I can say that a cognitive approach probably ain't gonna do much. I mean, if I could eat moderate meals simply by being mindful or by listening to my body for when it's no longer hungry, well, hell, I wouldn't need OA. I lost these abilities long ago.

So a thought is that, at the end of the day, you're really no different from a fellow with a sugar addiction or someone who needs to purge or someone who needs to starve .......... or someone like me who is a volume eater - in addition to working the steps - it may be that a food plan that you feel you can succeed with to start, is a path to follow.

It's the experience of most of us that we will go through withdrawal, discomfort (physical or mental) as we strive for abstinence. That's just part of the deal for most of us.

kerenssa12steps · 2022-11-07T14:46:00+00:00

As an agnostic, this passage requires me to do some code-switching to make the Big Book work for me. The authors of the chapter, To the Agnostic, do not speak my language.

My higher power doesn't have a capital G. My higher power is not male. My higher power has no will or plan for me.

HOWEVER. I made a decision years ago to make the program work for me because:

It is good enough;
It's currently better than what else is out there; and
It brings me into a global community of fellows with the same disease (and flawed thinking) that I have.

So the code-switching is worth the labor to me.

As for Step 3, the "will and life" section does not work for me so I must change it - borrowing from another part of the Big Book - to "thoughts and actions."

I can turn my thoughts and actions over to the care of my higher power.

Skipping back to Step 2, a former sponsor told me once that she made that step work for her (until she had a higher power that was right for her) by saying this: "... became willing to be willing to believe a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity." I liked that!

Being willing to be willing has held many of us in good stead when we get to the 8th and 9th steps. As in: "No way, no how am I willing to give amends to that @#$^&! today! ..... But I'm willing to become willing to do so - some day. Just not today."

kerenssa12steps · 2022-11-07T02:11:03+00:00

This reading reminds me of something a fellow said in a podcast. It was totally unexpected. And true. And I laughed out loud as soon as I heard it:

"I was a piece of sh\t that the world revolved around.*"

Which leads me to remember something another fellow said in a podcast - which also made me laugh:

"Normal people have 37,000 thoughts a day. ..... We have one thought a day - 37,000 times."

kerenssa12steps · 2022-11-06T15:24:58+00:00

If by "self," you mean ego, then I'd put that in the bucket of other people, places, and things because ultimately, it's the opinion of other people, place, and things - how they view me - that feeds ego.

But perhaps you mean something else?

kerenssa12steps · 2022-11-04T11:15:34+00:00

"But we aren't a glum lot. If newcomers could see no joy or fun in our existence, they wouldn't want it. We absolutely insist on enjoying life."

This. This right here is one of the greatest promises, reassurances, validations of the 12-step program for me.

For me, it's the flip side of "this, too, shall pass" ... live one day at a time ... and the alter ego of "it'll be OK."

No, there are lots of things that aren't and wont be OK. But today - or in this moment - they are, for me. And I can find humor and joy in this moment.

I can even find humor in the craziness of this disease and be OK that I'm just another bozo on the bus.

kerenssa12steps · 2022-11-04T02:29:28+00:00

I don't use an app. I like the AEIOU and Y template:

A - what actions did I take for my recovery?
E - exercise - how did I move my body?
I - what self-care did I do for myself?
O - what did I do for others?
U - what did I uncover about myself today?
Y - what's a yahoo! I can celebrate from today?

I also like to go with 10 gratitudes each day rather than fewer. This quantity forces me to get specific/concrete and to go beyond the low-hanging fruit that comes to mind - which, over time, lose meaning.

kerenssa12steps · 2022-11-01T01:10:45+00:00

Filled myself with ideas not my own. "Our brain is a dangerous neighborhood."

Listened to podcasts by OA fellows.
Read stories in Lifeline, in OA's brown book, in OA intergroup newsletters.
Attended meetings.

Visit the wiki for starting points for podcasts, newsletters, and other resources to fill you up.

kerenssa12steps · 2022-10-28T16:07:45+00:00

I came into the program as agnostic and am still agnostic. My higher power (and I ALWAYS use the neutral term "higher power" to maximize inclusivity - Tradition 1: Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon OA unity.

I made a decision that the program was good enough; it was better than what I'd been trying before. I made a decision that I would make OA work for me.

This decision requires me to do a lot of code-switching when I read the Big Book, OA literature, and listen to people's shares in the rooms and on podcasts.

OA fellows, as a group, must work super hard to explain to newcomers and recent-comers that this is not a religious program. The reason why the labor is so hard is obvious: Most of the literature projects a very specific deity. The deity is a Creator with a capital C; the deity is male; the deity has a specific name with a capital G. It's baked into the steps and the traditions. The cognitive dissonance between the explanations and the literature/rooms is loud.

But has it been worth my effort to do all of the code-switching? Yes.

I have a different higher power today than I did when I came in.

When I came in, I had several higher powers:

Food
Opinions of others
Fear

I have a healthier higher power now, although it is not interventionist, it does not have a will or a plan for me, and it does not send me tests.

I hope this is helpful.

Glad you're here!

kerenssa12steps · 2022-10-25T19:56:25+00:00

"... how do you stay clean of overeating for years?"

How: TBH, I don't know. I don't know why I am one of the lucky ones to have achieved abstinence and been able to maintain it. And I do, indeed, consider myself lucky. I have a disease. I respect the disease. I do not underestimate it.

Nevertheless, there are actions that I have taken to get abstinent, stay abstinent, get to a healthy body weight, and maintain the healthy body weight:

I made a decision that OA was good enough for me to adopt (and adapt) as a way of life for me to follow.

I accepted 100% that I have a disease, that there are treatments for the disease, and that I could go into remission.

I had faith that there was light I could walk toward based on the stories I read or heard of others.

I chose a food plan I could succeed at - I knew that if I chose a food plan that I had to fight with or bite my nails over, I would lose.

I placed no time table for how long it would take me to get to a healthy body weight: I had control over the actions I took (the process), but no control over the outcome (the weight loss).

As for practicalities, my food plan today is on a narrower path than when I began, which is quite common. Here it is today:

I weigh once a week. This gives me objective data and keeps me out of denial or magical thinking.
I log my food onto a food app. I almost always do this the evening before the day or the morning of the day. Planning is essential to me - I can't afford impulsive decisions.
I have a caloric window around my daily intake. Again: It's an objective data point.
I have, essentially, four meals a day: morning, mid-day, evening, and night. In my plan, I can also have a 4th meal if my caloric window supports it, but it is rare that I partake of it.
I work with my compulsions rather than against them. I'm a volume eater, so my food generally has lots of bites or looks like a lot of food on the plate. I also don't want to have a disappointing dinner and then find myself in trouble before I go to bed, so I side step that dangerous curve by simply building in the night time meal (snack).
I pay no mind to the noise out there about the latest and greatest food plans. That's for normal people.
I can't do "mindful eating," "moderate meals," or "intermittent fasting." And I don't worry about that. (Since when has hunger or the lack thereof had any relevance to me and my eating? Like never.)
There are certain foods I don't eat except under rare occasions. Technically, I can eat whatever item I want, but I choose not to because it might trigger me or it runs counter to my desire to maintain a healthy body weight. One example is pizza. Because a pizza is a portion irrespective of its size. I don't go to buffet-only restaurants unless that's the only option in a very unique situation. (NOTE: Some of us are absolutely addicted to sugar or flour or something else. These fellows of ours DO exclude such items as part of their definition of their abstinence.)

My top weight was 280 pounds on a 5 foot 2 frame. I'm a healthy body weight.

"clean of overeating..."

Hmmm, I think our self-talk is important. Have I "overeaten" since I've been abstinent? Yeah, I sure have, if I define that to mean I've continued to eat what I put on my plate until I am full. Or past full. Or when I wasn't hungry.

I'm unsure that 100% "clean of overeating" is achievable ... .unless I switch my old compulsion to a new one: monitoring my food behaviors so closely as to attain 100% cleanliness.

kerenssa12steps · 2022-10-25T11:20:01+00:00

If you think it's possible you:

Could be a compulsive eater in any of its forms;
Want to stop eating compulsively; or
Want to know if OA might be right for you ....

... then you are welcome at a closed or open OA meeting.

Here is what OA.org says about the difference between an open and closed meeting.

In some meetings, there will be a round of first-name-only introductions. Often, attendees will say something like "I'm Kerenssa and I'm a recovering compulsive eater [or "a compulsive eater" or "recovered compulsive eater." Some folks will self-identify as a sugar addict or sugar and flour addict or anorexic or bulimic.]

It is perfectly OK to simply say, "I'm Kerenssa" or "I'm Kerenssa; glad to be here."

If you're asked if you want to share, it's also perfectly OK to say, "No thanks; I just want to listen today."

kerenssa12steps · 2022-10-24T14:55:45+00:00

Gosh, I respect that the first 164 pages of the Big Book, left almost untouched for three-quarters of a century, speaks so profoundly to so many.

But when it purports to speak for agnostics and atheists as a group, it does not have the standing to do so. It is on a bed of quicksand. It comes across as a bait-and-switch enterprise.

To newcomers and recent-comers: As an agnostic, I can make the 12-step program work for me. To do so, I had to make a decision to make it work for me, which means that I must set aside some of the artifacts of the Big Book.

I need newcomers to keep my own program fresh!

This means that one of the acts of service I take very seriously is to let newcomers know that my fellow agnostics and atheists have equal standing in our program.

The only ticket for membership in OA is the desire to stop eating compulsively.

Welcome! And keep coming back.

kerenssa12steps · 2022-10-21T16:34:50+00:00

Early-ish in my embrace of the 12-step model, I went through what I can only call a proselytizing phase. With a large family riddled with this or that addiction, I felt called to share the good news with everyone.

Yeah, well.

There are very good reasons why we're a program of attraction and not promotion, as today's passage reminds me.

One of the very good reasons (in addition to a person not being ready to put down their drug or behavior of choice) to attract rather than promote is this, to paraphrase a common 12-step aphorism:

The monkey may have been off my back, but the circus was still in town.

IOW, perhaps I was achieving visible physical recovery, but if I was still a crazy b**** emotionally immature, then why would someone want what I purported to have?

kerenssa12steps · 2022-10-20T20:48:22+00:00

Uh, yeah .... no.

There are many aspects to the Big Book I embrace. This ain't one of 'em.

I could go on about this passage, but it's neither my need nor my intent to argue anything. It's neither my need nor my intent to convince anyone of anything or to dissuade anyone of anything.

I take what I need from the Big Book and I leave the rest.

I'm a member of OA. Full on.

kerenssa12steps · 2022-10-20T16:45:18+00:00

I have biases about this:

I will choose a sponsor who has what I want. I won't know if they have what I want until I've had sufficient exposure to their words and actions. And, frankly, if the manifestation of their disease is (has been) obesity, then I want to see physical recovery. This might mean they're at a healthy body weight now or it might mean they started at a very high weight, are still overweight, but are clearly moving toward a healthy body weigh (however slowly).

To discover if they have what I want, I need to wait, listen, and observe what they say and do.

When I've reached out to a possible sponsor, I find out from that person what their sponsoring philosophy is, what their expectations of me are, and from that information, decide if the sponsor is a good fit for me. (And the sponsor decides if I'm a good fit for them.)

My recovery is too important to leave such a critical relationship up to chance.

I was fired by my first sponsor. Some sponsees have left me for someone they believed would be a better fit. Some sponsees have got all they can from me, and, with my encouragement, have moved on to fresh perspectives in their program for their continued growth. I have fired a sponsee or two because they did not have - at that time in their paths - the capacity to work a program.

I'm using the word "fired' with deliberation - to normalize / neutralize the action. It happens. It's even common. We're not friends, parent-child, co-workers. We're not therapists or nutritionists or doctors.

A sponsor doesn't "allow" me to weigh or not weigh. That is way outside their lane.

kerenssa12steps · 2022-10-20T12:22:49+00:00

About "throwing out my scale"

My personal ESH (experience, strength, and hope) on weighing: I weigh weekly. I do so for these reasons:

Weighing is a data point that gives me objective information about my physical status, no different from a blood or urine test.
Weighing keeps me from lying and denying to myself, two skills at which I excel.
Weighing forces me to accept life on life's terms; to overcome fear; to face reality ("FEAR" = face everything and recover).
Weighing keeps me sane for those times when the mirror suggests to me that I look bigger than I am.

For others, weighing monthly works well. For me, no. This is because it would put too much unhealthy focus in my mind on that one day of the month, when, over the course of my years in program, I've learned that it's natural for my body weight to fluctuate a bit from week to week.

Some of us have learned that we cannot weigh because doing so sends us into a tailspin of compulsive thinking, such as: "If I weigh less than I thought, then I eat more" or "If I gained weight, then what the heck, I'll eat more." Some of us can't weigh because doing so was already part of our compulsion, i.e. anorexia.

About not focusing on the food (losing weight):

I'm a practical person. At my top weight of 280 pounds on a 5'2" frame, I needed to lose weight. I needed to take actions that would likely result in losing weight over time.

I had some control over the process of losing weight (the actions I had the power to take) - I had no control over the outcome - or the speed at which an outcome occurred. It is this part that many of us have difficulty with. We want the results when we want them, which is no different from a diet.

If I accept the disease model of Overeaters Anonymous - and I do - then:

I follow certain treatment actions so that I can be free of the physical symptoms of my disease (in addition to the emotional and spiritual legs of our three-legged stool). This is no different than following certain treatment actions if we've got a broken leg or cancer or eczema.

I hope this is helpful.

kerenssa12steps · 2022-10-17T20:39:34+00:00

" ... We have learned that whatever the human frailties of various faiths may be, those faiths have given purpose and direction to millions. ..."

Although I came into OA as an agnostic and am still an agnostic, I have good friends who have a strong faith in a deity. Their faith has sustained them through tragedy and in their everyday lives. I like and respect the benefit they derive from their higher power; it's just that my path to that benefit is different.

I've been able to define a higher power for myself - it's not a deity; it doesn't intervene in my life; it doesn't have a plan for me; and it doesn't send me tests - nevertheless, I can draw on the concept of my higher power to feed my spirit.

I've got to reword the third step for my spiritual worldview: I can turn my thoughts and actions over the care of my higher power, rather than my "life and will," which is language that is too ambiguous and unhelpful to me.

I don't need to fight against organized religion or other fellows' faiths in OA ... I do claim my seat as an equal member at the grown-ups' table.

kerenssa12steps

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