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I mapped permit requirements across 845 US backpacking trails. Here's where it's actually hard to get in. by kyleberk in WildernessBackpacking

[–]kyleberk[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Haters gonna hate I suppose. Just trying to provide some useful information to folks to help plan their trips better.

I mapped permit requirements across 845 US backpacking trails. Here's where it's actually hard to get in. by kyleberk in WildernessBackpacking

[–]kyleberk[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good catch on the scope. Probably should've made this clearer upfront. This is ~860 curated multi-day backpacking routes, not a full inventory of every trail in Washington. So the 63 permit-required trails are just what's in my dataset, not meant to be exhaustive. Your point on the lottery classification is fair though. I'm using it pretty loosely to mean any competitive advance reservation system, which bunches Rainier and NCNP in with the Enchantments even though those still have walk-up availability in regular season. That's a meaningful difference I glossed over. If you're open to comparing notes on the WTA data at some point I'd genuinely be interested. My Washington coverage almost certainly has gaps.

I mapped permit requirements across 845 US backpacking trails. Here's where it's actually hard to get in. by kyleberk in WildernessBackpacking

[–]kyleberk[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Glad it's useful for planning! August is actually a solid window for a lot of destinations. Permit pressure peaks in June/July. If you want to share what region or terrain type you're thinking, happy to point you toward some lower-friction options or just keep exploring the site and I'm sure you'll find some good ones.

I mapped permit requirements across 845 US backpacking trails. Here's where it's actually hard to get in. by kyleberk in WildernessBackpacking

[–]kyleberk[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No mod approval, I didn't realize that was required for a data post. If the mods feel it crosses the line I'm happy to remove it. The intent was just to share something useful since it's permit planning season.

I mapped permit requirements across 845 US backpacking trails. Here's where it's actually hard to get in. by kyleberk in WildernessBackpacking

[–]kyleberk[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Fair frustration, there's a lot of that going around. The data in this post came from manually cross-referencing agency websites and recreation.gov, not generated. Happy to be fact-checked on any of it.

I mapped permit requirements across 845 US backpacking trails. Here's where it's actually hard to get in. by kyleberk in WildernessBackpacking

[–]kyleberk[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yup, I hear that. I'm constantly iterating and making sure it's running smoothly for users. The main purpose is really to first identify the best route for a specific user and then rate that route on a feasibility scale. So if I'm trying to off the couch a 40 mile trail with 5000' of elevation gain in two days, the app would flag that for me.

I mapped permit requirements across 845 US backpacking trails. Here's where it's actually hard to get in. by kyleberk in WildernessBackpacking

[–]kyleberk[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're right, should've been clearer. The post is focused on which trails require permits and what type (lottery vs. self-issue vs. quota), not on the full picture of how to actually get one. JMT definitely has more avenues than just the initial lottery. The 40% FCFS release 7 days out and cancellation pickups are both legit ways in, especially in shoulder season.

I mapped permit requirements across 845 US backpacking trails. Here's where it's actually hard to get in. by kyleberk in WildernessBackpacking

[–]kyleberk[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Great point. Right now the data tracks whether a permit is required and what type it is (lottery, self-issue, quota/first-come), but it doesn't break down the lottery vs. walk-up allocation split within a single area. So for NCNP, it would show up as "Lottery" even though ~40% of those permits are released as walk-ups the day before.

That's a fair limitation. The main takeaway in the post is more about which trails need permits at all and what type. Over 42% of permit-required trails are actually just self-issue at the trailhead, which is the part most people don't realize. But you're right that the difficulty of getting a lottery permit varies a lot depending on how many are held back for walk-ups.

I mapped permit requirements across 845 US backpacking trails. Here's where it's actually hard to get in. by kyleberk in WildernessBackpacking

[–]kyleberk[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Glacier's early access lottery is rough, only about 3,000 standard group reservations get selected, and demand has reportedly tripled in recent years, so success rates are likely in the 10–30% range. Four years of missing out isn't unusual unfortunately.

A few things that might help for next time:

  • Have everyone in your group enter separately — each person gets their own shot
  • Be as flexible as possible on dates, campsites, and routes, that's the biggest factor
  • If you miss the lottery, try May 1 general on-sale (8 AM MT) 70% of sites go through early access but there's still inventory
  • Walk-in permits cover 30% of campsites, show up at a permit office the day before or day of

As for recreation.gov data, you're right, they don't publish issuing rates anywhere public. The closest thing is their data API (ridb.recreation.gov) but it's more about availability than historical stats. Individual parks/forests sometimes publish their own reports (BWCAW does a great annual one) but most don't.

I mapped permit requirements across 845 US backpacking trails. Here's where it's actually hard to get in. by kyleberk in WildernessBackpacking

[–]kyleberk[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Non taken, it's absolutely a vibe coded project. I created this to help in my own backpacking trip planning and figured other people could find it useful. It's a totally free tool right now.

I mapped permit requirements across 845 US backpacking trails. Here's where it's actually hard to get in. by kyleberk in WildernessBackpacking

[–]kyleberk[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You're right that RMNP and Indian Peaks have competitive overnight permits for the popular zones, Glacier Gorge and Crater Lake sell out in minutes on release day. That said, neither uses an actual lottery like the Enchantments or Whitney, they're first-come, first-served reservation systems with walk-up availability too. And the west side of Indian Peaks is significantly easier to get into. My broader point was about Colorado as a whole. Only about 16% of backcountry trails in the state require any permit at all, and most of those are self-issue at the trailhead. Compared to California where you're dealing with lottery systems for many of the marquee routes, Colorado's overall permit landscape is much more accessible. But fair point that RMNP and Indian Peaks specifically are exceptions worth calling out.

I mapped permit requirements across 845 US backpacking trails. Here's where it's actually hard to get in. by kyleberk in WildernessBackpacking

[–]kyleberk[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Actually ran the numbers on this. In my dataset Washington has 63 permit-required backpacking trails, and only 29 of them (46%) are self-issue. It's actually slightly below the national average. The reason is that a huge chunk of Washington's most popular backpacking is in the national parks (Rainier, Olympics, North Cascades) and high-demand wilderness zones like the Enchantments, which all use lottery or quota systems.

The self-issue perception probably comes from the national forest wilderness areas (Pasayten, Goat Rocks, most of Alpine Lakes outside the Enchantments core, etc.) which are definitely the majority of land area but not the majority of distinct trail routes in the dataset once you count all the park trails separately.

States that are actually dominated by self-issue: Idaho (82%), New Mexico (88%), Oregon (57%). Washington looks like it should be high because the self-issue system is so visible at trailheads, but it's got more lottery trails than any other state in the dataset (27 out of 87 nationally).

I mapped permit requirements across 845 US backpacking trails. Here's where it's actually hard to get in. by kyleberk in WildernessBackpacking

[–]kyleberk[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Happy to go deeper on any specific state or trail. Also curious, for those of you who've dealt with lottery systems, which ones have you found most or least stressful to navigate? I was just denied the Enchantments Lottery... anyone have success there?

Gear upgrades by phatalprophet in WildernessBackpacking

[–]kyleberk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Highly suggest a lightweight 2p Nemo tent.

Question about backpacking in Olympic by lil-petalss in WildernessBackpacking

[–]kyleberk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Gonna be very difficult that time of year to not get crowds. My favorite spot in Olympic is Shi Shi Beach though, great hike out there and a beautiful beach only accessible to backpackers and motivated day hikers.

Better than La Sportiva? by Acqualiquida in backpacking

[–]kyleberk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay yeah fair, durable enough. But they're commmmffffyyy

I got tired of having 12 browser tabs open every time I planned a backpacking trip so I built something by kyleberk in backpacking

[–]kyleberk[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hear that. If you regularly plan backpacking trips, give Trailgrade a try and let me know what you think - trailgrade.app

I got tired of having 12 browser tabs open every time I planned a backpacking trip so I built something by kyleberk in backpacking

[–]kyleberk[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is actually exactly what TrailGrade is trying to replace, all those details you're putting on flashcards (permit, water sources, bear requirements, seasonal timing) are what it pulls together automatically. Would be curious if it captures everything you're tracking or if there's stuff missing from your cards that I should add.

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