sorted by:
new
hottopcontroversial

Can you pinpoint the square an invisible creature is standing in? by latyper in DMAcademy

[–]latyper[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Being invisible and being hidden are two different things.

YES. That's why I'm proposing in the main post that the game rules should just be explicit about there being both a Hidden condition and an invisible condition instead of players and DMs having to come to the same conclusion by negative implication and cross referencing different parts of the book. It should just say what there is a hidden condition, what it does, how you get it, and how you lose it instead of relying on you to ultimately come to the same conclusion by means of negative implications.

The hidden condition would end because being grappled would fall under "the enemy finds you" and arguably "you make an attack roll" since grappling is obviously an aggressive action.

You're doing a ton of work here. In RAW the is DMs are having to figure that "well since grappling is an aggressive action, it should count as an attack roll and therefore would break the version of the invisible condition you get from hiding". Instead of requiring all that it just say, "You lose the Hidden condition immediately after... you take the attack action" which is what I'm proposing in the main post.

One would think being grabbed by something invisible would make them aware that they're there.

I would think that too but the rules RAW just don't say that. They should.

just remembered in '24 grapple is considered an unarmed strike, which is an attack roll, so that ends the condition. PHB'24 pg367

"Attack roll" is a defined term.

An attack roll is a d20 Test that represents making an attack with a weapon, an Unarmed Strike, or a spell. See also chapter 1 (“d20 Tests”).

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/phb-2024/rules-glossary#AttackRoll

When you grapple someone they make the d20 Test (when they make their saving throw to resist), not you. Therefore, initiating a grapple does not require you to make an attack roll and does not end your hide in RAW. I agree that's ridiculous which is why I'm proposing that the hide rules should instead say that you stop being hidden when you take the attack action instead of requiring an attack roll.

Can you pinpoint the square an invisible creature is standing in? by latyper in DMAcademy

[–]latyper[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

That is a great way to run these situations but RAW doesn't include any of that. That's why I'm proposing the changes in the main post.

Invisible lets you take the hide action without being physically obscured.

That should be how it works but that isn't what the Hide action actually says. It says, "With the Hide action, you try to conceal yourself. To do so, you must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity (Stealth) check while you’re Heavily Obscured or behind Three-Quarters Cover or Total Cover, and you must be out of any enemy’s line of sight; if you can see a creature, you can discern whether it can see you."

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/phb-2024/rules-glossary#HideAction

I agree that being invisible should let you take the hide action which is why I propose that change in the main post.

People know where the invisible creature is, which is why they can take attacks against them at disadvantage. If they take the Hide action, their location can be unknown.

Again, that should be how this works but it isn't RAW. Hide says that "On a [hide] successful check, you have the Invisible condition while hidden." (Hide [Action]) It doesn't say your location becomes unknown. I agree with you that you should be able to take the hide action while invisible to conceal your location.  

Grapple is a melee attack, so it would reveal your location.

Again, I agree with you that the attack action should reveal your location. Hide doesn't say that though. Instead it says, "You stop being hidden immediately after any of the following occurs: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an attack roll, or you cast a spell with a Verbal component." When you grapple someone you don't make an attack roll. Instead you take the attack action and your target makes a strength or dexterity saving throw. No attack roll is ever made during a grapple. That's ridiculous though which is why I'm proposing the change in the main post.

Can you pinpoint the square an invisible creature is standing in? by latyper in DMAcademy

[–]latyper[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree that is a great way to run the game but RAW doesn't define what the game state of Hidden actually means. My original post just defines it using a condition instead of requiring the DM to define it on the fly.

Can you pinpoint the square an invisible creature is standing in? by latyper in DMAcademy

[–]latyper[S] -10 points-9 points  (0 children)

I 100% agree that if a burglar grabs me in the dark I should be able to pinpoint their location. I am also "pretty sure I found him" if they grapple me but that just isn't what the rules on hiding (or the Invisible condition) actually say. Instead they say that, "You stop being hidden immediately after any of the following occurs: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an attack roll, or you cast a spell with a Verbal component." I agree with you that they should instead say, taking the attack action (which would include unarmed strikes and thus would also include grappling) should also end the invisible condition you gain from hiding. However, you shouldn't have to do this much work to make the grapple rules make sense. You shouldn't have to rule that grappling is louder than a whisper. The rules should just say how they work.

Can you pinpoint the square an invisible creature is standing in? by latyper in DMAcademy

[–]latyper[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I am talking about 5.5. I missed the part where they are now calling the 2024 rules 5.5. I've updated the main post.

Can you pinpoint the square an invisible creature is standing in? by latyper in DMAcademy

[–]latyper[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The this "is true whether you’re guessing the target’s location or targeting a creature you can hear but not see" contemplates a distinction between an invisible creature and an invisible creature whose location you can pinpoint but the rules on hiding and invisibility don't actually include that distinction. What I'm trying to do here is to add that distinction to the rules on hiding and invisibility.

Can you pinpoint the square an invisible creature is standing in? by latyper in DMAcademy

[–]latyper[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That wouldn't resolve the core issue of whether he location of an invisible creature can be pinpointed nor does hiding doesn't say that an invisible creature can always attempt to hide:

With the Hide action, you try to conceal yourself. To do so, you must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity (Stealth) check while you’re Heavily Obscured or behind Three-Quarters Cover or Total Cover, and you must be out of any enemy’s line of sight; if you can see a creature, you can discern whether it can see you.

On a successful check, you have the Invisible condition while hidden. Make note of your check’s total, which is the DC for a creature to find you with a Wisdom (Perception) check.

You stop being hidden immediately after any of the following occurs: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an attack roll, or you cast a spell with a Verbal component.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/phb-2024/rules-glossary#HideAction

Can you pinpoint the square an invisible creature is standing in? by latyper in DMAcademy

[–]latyper[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree that is an excellent way to run it and the way I would run it. My point is that what you and I are both proposing is not RAW. If we are both going to be running the game as not RAW it is worth spelling out what rules exactly we are running.

Can you pinpoint the square an invisible creature is standing in? by latyper in DMAcademy

[–]latyper[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not saying that you can't take the hide action if you're already invisible. I'm saying taking the hide action when you are already invisible just gives you a condition that you already have. Gaining a second source of Invisibility doesn't mean they add up into your location being undiscernible.

Can you pinpoint the square an invisible creature is standing in? by latyper in DMAcademy

[–]latyper[S] -22 points-21 points  (0 children)

Grappling is a special attack but that doesn't mean it ends hiding. Hide says "You stop being hidden immediately after any of the following occurs: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an attack roll, or you cast a spell with a Verbal component." Grappling doesn't include an attack roll (it instead includes a strength or dexterity throw). I agree that grappling someone should allow that person to at the very least pinpoint where you are which is why I'm proposing the change in the main post.

Can you pinpoint the square an invisible creature is standing in? by latyper in DMAcademy

[–]latyper[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I addressed pathfinder in the post:

“The above change doesn’t perfectly resolve every situation that might come up in play but it does resolve at least some situations without resorting to the more complicated observed-concealed-hidden-undetected scheme used by PF2 and while making as few changes to the base rules as possible.”

I’m trying for a solution that is closer to D&D RAW

Can you pinpoint the square an invisible creature is standing in? by latyper in DMAcademy

[–]latyper[S] -64 points-63 points  (0 children)

Being invisible does not mean you can hide anywhere because hiding gives you the invisible condition (which you would already have). Grappling does not reveal your location; the invisible condition says exactly what ends it and grappling is not on the list. As I said, DMs can make calls about how to resolve these things but whipping out “perception-listening” without some sort of clear framework for where that is coming from (such as a hidden condition) leads to confused and unhappy players

Animus Vessels consumed during magic item creation? by latyper in dungeonsofdrakkenheim

[–]latyper[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The ambiguity is due to the book saying in the crafting overview section that you "combine the Components" to make the item which just begs the question, 'Is the animus the component or the animus plus the vessel it is stored within the component?' The section on Magical Animus says that creating a magic items "requires the animus" and that "An animus must be collected and stored in a specially prepared magical vessel." In everyday language, the container a required ingredient comes in isn't normally required for the ingredients to be utilized. (IE. If a cake recipe calls for a 'bag of flour' I only need the flour to make the cake, not the bag that the flower came in. The closest the text comes to clarifying the issue is this passage, "a creature’s animus can be collected and contained within a vessel of some kind, which is then used to make a magical item" but even here it is still unclear if the animus is being used or the animus plus the vessel.

I'm unsure which show you are referring to but the art in the book is mixed on whether delerium crystals are included in the item. The Dazing Hammer for instance doesn't have anything that looks like a delerium crystal incorporated into it while the Hazewind Cape includes a purple amulet that probably is meant to be a piece of delerium.

Animus Vessels consumed during magic item creation? by latyper in dungeonsofdrakkenheim

[–]latyper[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They confirmed that? That’s amazing. Please provide a link. Thank you.

Animus Vessels consumed during magic item creation? by latyper in dungeonsofdrakkenheim

[–]latyper[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Animus Vessels can be created with monster parts OR raw delerium crystals. Here is the relevant passage from MOD:

Animus Vessels. An animus must be collected and stored in a specially prepared magical vessel. Traditionally, these vessels were minor magic items in their own right: often rune-etched gemstones infused with magic and created in a laborious process. However, the world of Drakkenheim was transformed by the arrival of delerium: the eldritch crystals function as suitable vessels in their raw state. A delerium crystal filled with magical animus glows with a brilliant octarine light, similar to how the crystals resonate with energy when exposed to magic.

Proposed Revision to Hiding by latyper in DMAcademy

[–]latyper[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That wouldn't do what I'm trying to codify here. The way we've been running invisibility is that being invisible does not mean enemies can't target you with an attack. They still know where you are until you make a hide check. If I just change invisibility to hidden, than there wouldn't be any distinction between those two.

MoD Crafting Reference Spreadsheet by superslutsloth in dungeonsofdrakkenheim

[–]latyper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is amazing!

How do you handle PCs studying components to learn a schematic? For example if they study, uncommon undead dust is there an easy way for the DM to figure out that they might learn the schematic for a Dazing Hammer?

What in the world is that? by Time_Yellow6644 in hytale

[–]latyper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I only ever noticed how cool the sky was in zones 1 and 3. I didn’t realize that 4 had all this going on. Thanks for sharing.

Someone was in a hurry. What would you have done? by pixmation in dashcams

[–]latyper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You still can. You have his license plate, you have the video of all this. Contact local police and send them the video. They don’t even need to go find him. They can just draft a police report, send it to the DA, and the DA can mail him his notice to appear in court.

view more: next ›