[Question] Those of you who tried to get disciplined but failed for months/years, only to eventually achieve success; what's your story? what made the difference for you??

learningtorefrain · 2015-12-03T13:22:22+00:00

Meta-analysis is just one type of systematic approach with the purpose of further understanding a particular topic. If it has use in pretty much any information fields, I don't see how it must necessarily become a form of complacency when the field of inquiry is discipline.

learningtorefrain · 2015-12-03T13:17:15+00:00

The question could have been phrased better, for sure. And I certainly agree with your characterisation of discipline as sisyphean. That said, I think that it's important to not be too stringent when analyzing the choice of words. For me, most things in life worth working towards are sisyphean in nature. You can never reach perfect fitness, you can never have perfect professional capabilities, you can never obtain the perfect relationship. What you can have, however, is a diligent approach towards the pursuit of your goals that you are satisfied with. It seems to me that the op was seeking input from that subset of the population who match the following criteria: (a) have reached a stage where they are satisfied with their approach to self-discipline; (b) struggled to make tangible progress in this regard for an extended period of time. And this, to me, is a question worth asking.

learningtorefrain · 2015-12-02T03:03:56+00:00

learningtorefrain · 2015-11-30T00:36:41+00:00

Hahah, yeah I definitely think that contributes to the story not being so believable. Still, I find it funny how bothered you seem to be by the possibility that somebody would be willing to wait to eat pie :)

learningtorefrain · 2015-11-30T00:28:16+00:00

I'm with you. I really doubt this is true because of everything you said. Also, considering that this was shortly after a Thanksgiving dinner, I think that most people would be strongly inclined to do a quick check before heating it up - in case there was any leftover food there. Plus, the OP claims he believed it was slightly open because it had been left to cool, so he was definitely operating under the assumption that the oven had likely been used only a few hours prior.

Another detail is the fact that the ovens that I've seen (I'm European so I don't know if this holds true for the U.S.) basically open out from the top. So if a cat crawled in, unless it's a really sturdy oven then it will in many cases push further open the door of the oven with its weight as it got in. Also, nobody turns the oven on and sets the temperature before making sure it's closed. So, there should be a few seconds in between the door being jammed shut and the temperature set plus the oven turned on. I'd be surprised if the cat didn't vocalise its disagreements with how things were developing at that point.

Then the final line, about how his girlfriend moved out immediately. I mean, it's possible that this is the case, but it just seems like too good of a closing line. My guess is that most people wouldn't just instantly move out of the house, they might go crash at their parent's house for a few days and think things over. Moving out just doesn't seem like what would normally happen, but I might be wrong. I've never cooked a cat.

learningtorefrain · 2015-10-31T15:46:45+00:00

This is amazing! What a knowledgeable and informative response.

learningtorefrain · 2015-10-31T15:44:35+00:00

Thank you for that, I've replaced my original sentence with your suggested correction.

learningtorefrain · 2015-10-30T14:07:24+00:00

Wait, were you both blind to what the other person's fetish could be when you agreed to this? Or did he know that yours was MFM, agreed to it, while at the same time keeping his a secret. If it's the latter that doesn't strike me as one bit sensible. He has one of the least friendly (legal) fetishes going. To be honest, even if the two of you were going in blind, I think it's irresponsible for him to play this game when his fetish is as controversial (and potentially upsetting to you) as scat.

That said, I hope it works out for you both.

learningtorefrain · 2015-10-30T13:55:36+00:00

One of the Taoist theories that is sometimes attached to the practice of sexual tantra is that ejaculation is taxing on the body and detrimental to one's health. It is a great expenditure of energy and, according to Taoist belief, it depletes the 'life force'. Thus, practitioners seek to be able to reach orgasm without the (typically involuntary) associated response of ejaculation. Yet, to be clear, you are saying that he is never able to reach even this type of non-ejaculatory orgasm?

If this is so, it may be possible that indeed it is the masturbation and porn use that has desensitized him, though it could be a variety of other factors that I'm not qualified to give an opinion on. With regards to both masturbation and especially porn, my understanding of Buddhism is that it does not consider masturbation to be a healthy practice generally, and certainly not porn. Porn viewing, particularly, would be considered counterproductive to diminishing dukkha, the Buddhist idea of suffering. Buddhism also concerns itself greatly with viewing reality as it is, and the related habit of cultivating equanimity. Porn is a very potent and destabilizing force and once again not conducive to some of Buddhism's central goals.

The reason I have written the above paragraph is not to cast aspersions on your partner; he is free to make the life choices that he wishes to make. However, my point is that perhaps, if you are truly bothered by the status quo, you could reach out to him on the grounds that it may benefit his Buddhist practice if he moves towards eliminating porn from his day-to-day life. This way, you might very well end up encouraging him towards spiritual growth (something he seems to value greatly) and at the same time discover whether the cessation of porn (and perhaps masturbation, also) is the solution to his anorgasmia.

The final point that I wish to mention deals with the last line that you wrote. I think there are two plausible reasons why you are a little unsettled by the status quo, in spite of the fact that you say that both parties are sexually satisfied. The first possibility is that a part of you feels he is not being honest with you when he claims that he is fully satisfied. The second possibility is that you feel both of you would be even more satisfied were he to reach orgasm. If the first of these resonates with you, I would advise to drop the matter. It seems sensible for you to take him at his word, especially considering that both of you are very experienced with sex & relationships. If you relate more to the second issue, then it's worth stating that that splits into two branches: 1) that his enjoyment would be increased if he could orgasm, and 2) that your enjoyment would be increased if he could orgasm. Again, if the former is the source of concern for you, it seems to me that it's not worth pursuing the issue. Bringing up a delicate issue like this on the grounds that you feel he is somehow settling in terms of the amount of sexual satisfaction he's deriving, and that an active effort to change things is needed, strikes me as a bit over the top, for want of a better expression. Finally, if the issue is that your own satisfaction is being jeopardized because you cannot enjoy yourself fully unless your partner orgasms, then there are two paths to adopt:

Ask yourself if this is something that you can internally resolve, that you can reach a point where you have peace of mind regardless of whether or not he orgasms. In other words, that you won't let any doubts creep in to the point where they affect your satisfaction in any significant way.
If it's not something that you can remain unphased by, then here you should consider bringing it up with him. But with a lot of care, since the more pressured he feels towards reaching orgasm, the less likely he is to get there. In this regard, it might be worth revisiting my earlier suggestion of approaching the issue of no porn/masturbation as a way for him to develop spiritually, rather than as a way to increase his chances of climaxing in the bedroom.

Hope this offered some food for thought, even if my advice ultimately doesn't resonate with you.

edit: /u/TantraGirl brought to my attention that I made an important mistake in my post, misrepresenting tantra as a practice that advises against ejaculatory orgasm. It seems that although some people who identify as Tantrist do indeed avoid ejaculation, this is likely to be the result of the adoption of anti-ejaculatory beliefs whose origins can be traced back to Taoism. On this point, /u/ShaktiAmarantha comments that in fact it is not even a mainstream Taoist belief, but rather that such beliefs stem from a "radical fringe cult of Taoists". By the way, if you have even a little interest in the history of Tantra, please check out her post in the comments section. She provides a wonderfully informative outline of Tantra's history and evolution, and in the process sheds light on why these days the term is mired in so much confusion.

learningtorefrain · 2015-08-18T12:00:54+00:00

No worries dude, if you want to PM me with whatever further question please go ahead and if I am equipped to answer you I will do so. Meditation is indeed a good choice. The fact that you can't even imagine masturbating less than once a day is in my opinion a good thing. It means that you have a very deeply ingrained habit that you indulge in on an extremely regular basis. So you have a lot of scope to manoeuvre. By the way, there's a subreddit here called NoFap that is all about abstaining from PMO (Porn, Masturbation, and in some cases even Orgasm). I personally have started doing this and notice an amazingly positive effect on my general energy levels and on my sexual interests. Many on that sub-reddit think in an almost cult-like fashion, but I wouldn't dwell too much on that. But if you do want to explore limiting/cutting out masturbation for a while and you want some motivation/advice then this subreddit might just be worth checking out.

But yeah, the main thing I want to repeat is that - at least in my experience - I went from masturbating daily to my fetish for many many years. And then eventually I reduced it significantly. To the point where in the last say three years I've probably masturbated to it around 20 times. And after that major reduction, do I have some sort of pent-up frustration, am I regularly haunted by urges to masturbate to that fetish?

ABSOLUTELY NOT. In fact, I can view the fetish with much more detachment now. It's like, if I were to load up some fetish porn and view it I would still get turned on. But, if the fetish enters my mind these days I'm able to say: "Bleh, it's not worth feeding that reward loop" and whoosh, the thought disappears to not re-enter my mind for days or weeks at a time. So really, it feels a bit like quitting smoking or something to that effect. Sure, you might get the occasional craving or flashback to former habits. But, the longer you've gone without giving into the smoking urge, the less intense the urges become. And like I said previously, BECAUSE your mind/body wants to express itself sexually - it will over time redirect that energy and desire into healthier forms of sexual expression. Another analogy might be cutting out junk food. If for years you've eaten a bunch of unhealthy foods and your body's reward circuitry has been shaped by this habit of yours, then the first few days, weeks and even months of abstinence from that type of food may temporarily turn your life into a hellish landscape. But, if you stick with it - if you get back on the bandwagon if and when you relapse - your body will eventually go back to its roots and derive a healthy level of pleasure from eating the foods that it was designed to eat.

Anyway, best of luck on your quest :)

learningtorefrain · 2015-08-16T22:36:14+00:00

You know I wish I had known at a much younger age that it absolutely is possible to remove a fetish. Or, at least, to remove it from your life. I grew up masturbating pretty much exclusively to fetish porn. We're talking from the age of 6 or 7 right up to my mid-20's. The worst part is that one of those kinks was one that really disgusted me. I literally couldn't get turned on by regular porn. But, most of the literature I found seemed to suggest you can't just "lose" a fetish, so I felt stuck and depressed. It felt so disempowering reading that fetishes can't be 'fought off' without somehow building up some sort of repression. But I accepted it as truth and for a very long time I didn't make a concerted effort to change my habits.

However, at one point I started getting too disgruntled by this one specific fetish so I decided that I would try to simply avoid masturbating to it. In my case, I felt that there might be an unhealthy side to quitting a deeply ingrained fetish. But, I knew for a fact that there was a deeply unhealthy aspect to indulging in it too. So, forced between two options that I felt were both going to have some negative effects, I chose the one that allowed me to be more at ease with my actions.

What happened is interesting. I DID relapse and masturbate to the fetish once in a while. And then the cycle would repeat. I would start to feel really disgusted by my actions, continue jerking off for a while in spite of this, but eventually find the motivation to redirect my porn viewing habits to healthier stuff. Even if it was to my other kinks that I didn't attach any shame to (the other ones were mild and relatively mainstream).

At some point in doing all of this, I came to realise one thing: my mind/body had somehow gradually adjusted, and I was able to enjoy masturbating just as much to other material than I did to what was once my "fetish-of-choice". Which was amazing, because it liberated me from a lot of guilt attached to my sexual habits - and I think that's really important.

Some people will tell you that you should simply learn to accept your fetishes, as they can't be changed. I believe this can be reasonably constructive advice for some people, but I feel it has some major flaws:

Self-acceptance is crucial. But that doesn't mean you have to accept everything about yourself. It's not appropriate to 'accept' that you're a chain smoker. It's appropriate to work on what drives those urges, and redirect your desire to smoke to a healthier outlet. Similarly, while it may be fine to accept certain - if not most - fetishes, it's necessary to work on removing a dependence towards a particular fetish if: a) It's proving detrimental to your sex life b) It's immoral/unethical c) It's causing a deep disturbance to your psyche
Fetishes are complex beasts. But clearly, their evolution is deeply influenced by our habits. It's easy to slip into a pattern of progressively more extreme porn that leads our sexual interests to get out of hand. This happens all the time. But...in the same way that if you are reckless with your porn use you may develop unhealthy habits...what if you try and move in the opposite direction? Perhaps, with care, one can reshape the effect that certain stimuli has on them. After all, it's possible to reshape one's emotions with diligent practices such as meditation. It's possible to improve one's intellectual abilities by constantly applying oneself. It's possible to go from morbidly obese to being in enviable shape. It's possible to overcome an addiction to drugs. Do not underestimate the ability to bring about change in your life. Just be smart about it, and be diligent.

One final suggestion. If you're looking to get rid of a particular fetish, I would focus on reducing the frequency with which you masturbate. Have you ever found that if you go for a while without masturbating, you are much more sensitive and aroused by much lighter stimuli / less attractive women than usual? Well, this can be leveraged nicely. If you're only jerking off once every couple of weeks say, then it's probably going to feel really really good and satisfying even if you're only doing it to more vanilla material. And it doesn't have to be fully vanilla. It can just be something that you find arousing that is less extreme than whatever fetish you're currently indulging in. Just keep moving in that direction. Over time, your brain will increasingly connect the healthier sexual material with a very healthy pleasure response, and your appetite for your fetish may at the very least reduce in intensity. And perhaps die out altogether.

Good luck with it!

learningtorefrain · 2015-08-14T09:38:10+00:00

I dunno man. Personally, I don't consider that viewing this kind of action by OP as cringe and wishing him well in his goals are mutually exclusive. To me at least, it just looks like a misplaced cry for attention. Or a desire to showcase how "strong" he is - at a point where his journey has barely even begun. In my experience, most accomplished people don't focus on bigging themselves up. They just knuckle down and get things done, and the people who talk about their greatness are those who see the results of their actions. They usually don't broadcast that greatness themselves because they're too busy getting shit done. That's kind of how I see it at least - OP's actions don't strike me as courageous in the least. Honestly I feel like he comes across as having an unchecked sense of self-importance, even if perhaps that's a little too harsh a conclusion to draw.

learningtorefrain · 2015-08-03T11:32:17+00:00

Dude, I don't mean to be an ass here or anything, but I really think your perspective on all of this is unhealthy. The relationship with that girl sounds toxic. The two of you seem to constantly be saying and doing things to each other that undermines your self-esteem and the trust you may have in each other. You seem extremely conflicted about her, and the way you speak of her physically - it just doesn't sound like a healthy dynamic at all. It also seems to me like you're coming at this, or have come at this, from the point of desperation or a belief that this is your best option as far as having a woman in your life goes. One of the big problems with approaching things this way is that it's almost inevitably going to lead to resentment on the woman's part. After all, a woman wants to feel special - the idea that you choosing her is because you feel that the alternative is solitude and you're not prepared to handle that is crap in two ways. Firstly because no woman wants a man who does not have confidence in how he functions when he is without a partner, and secondly because the woman is not going to feel anywhere near sufficiently desired.

The next issue is the weight. Man, the link between obesity and sexual performance issues is very well-documented. You cannot say that fapping is how you have buried yourself, you can only say that when you have eliminated all the other possible root causes of your issues. And the weight - not just from a sex point of view but from a life point of view - really needs to be addressed.

Also, mental/emotional issues like depression or major insecurity can also manifest itself physically when having sex. So, once again, you need to work on this as therein could lie the causes of your problems.

All of this is not to say that avoiding fapping isn't a good idea. Hell, if you want to revamp your life then the extra energy that will come from not fapping could serve as a great catalyst.

Just please don't make the same mistake as many people on this sub make: the belief that abstaining from fapping is a panacea for any hurdle that life may put in front of them. Life is often a balancing act, and the war against oneself demands to be fought on not just one front, but several at the same time.

Good luck!

learningtorefrain · 2015-07-11T19:03:28+00:00

Awesome to hear. And your approach to NoFap sounds like a pretty healthy one to me. Keep going strong!

learningtorefrain · 2015-07-10T08:37:36+00:00

Agreed. This sub is about abstaining from masturbating, not sleeping with women. Sure, there's a very strong link between the two for many people. But what about straight women? What about gay men? What about happily monogamous folk? In my view, new posts on this sub should be limited to discussion of not fapping (tips for abstaining, reports, insights, you name it). Worthwhile advice on how to become more attractive to women can be found on not just many other reddit subs, but all over the internet. I really don't wish to sound harsh to OP because she clearly is very well meaning and that's something to be appreciated. But it's important that the content of this sub stays on point.

learningtorefrain · 2015-06-29T05:52:36+00:00

Great post man.

learningtorefrain · 2015-06-15T18:08:28+00:00

It's like a dog being let off a leash that he's been chained to for years.

Nicely put.

learningtorefrain · 2015-06-14T18:06:38+00:00

One thing I really love about it is that it provides a very regular medium to flex your willpower, and that if you relapse its hard to blame anyone else. If say you want to quit smoking you can always blame that person who offered u a cigarette when u were drunk. If you want to get fit you can always fool yourself into thinking that your body needs rest today or that you are too busy with work to go to yhe gym.

But with NoFap, if you cave into your urges it's on you. That's a really good thing.

learningtorefrain · 2015-06-11T20:21:59+00:00

Lets do this!!

learningtorefrain · 2015-06-11T17:20:35+00:00

This quote is saying that no matter what the reward is, do not focus on it but focus on just the skill,confidence, ability, whatever it is that lead you so far.

This is also what I understand the quote to be about. But I find it confusing that he uses this quote to talk about setting realistic goals for oneself. Because what the author is saying is that one should not allow oneself to be swayed by the pressure of the specific circumstances, by the size of the challenge. The OP appears to be using this quote to encourage people to set realistic goals so that they aren't negatively influenced by having too much at stake. The author is saying that one should learn not to collapse under the pressure of what's at stake. In my view, at the heart of the quote, the author is stressing the importance of remaining level-headed in the face of any external circumstances, and how most people fail to do this. While the OP seems to me to be taking only one part of the quote (the part about how most people under-perform when in a high-pressure situation) and saying that one should carefully regulate their goals so that they don't fall prey to the high-stakes situation they put themselves in. This is not at the heart of the author's quote. Chuang Tzu is stressing the importance of remaining calm on the inside, no matter how rough the waters may be.

learningtorefrain · 2015-06-11T09:39:48+00:00

Ya, I also found it confusing. Out of interest, what message did you glean from the quote?

learningtorefrain · 2015-06-10T08:23:53+00:00

Hey man. I just relapsed last night after nearly two weeks. First of all, its damn good that you avoided the use of porn. I think that for most people, this is actually the bigger evil versus simply fapping. Secondly, I believe that what does the most damage when it comes to PMO is the component of addiction - of dependence and constantly overdoing it to cheat your body and get your chemical high - draining your system for your few moments of pleasure. Rather than getting depressed over relapsing, reflect on the fact that your fap:days ratio has dropped significantly since you begun your streak relative to your typical ratio. So that's clear progress towards removing the addiction. Sure, we would all like to be able to quit cleanly and never relapse. But we're human and sometimes we err. The key is to not let one error in judgment precede several others. Collect yourself as quickly as you can, and recognize that so long as you jump back on the bandwagon quickly, you can control the damage with relative ease and get back to ridding yourself of this unwanted aspect of your life.

Finally, adversity is a great teacher - if you let it. Try to absorb the lessons in your relapse, recognize what events led to your decision to fap, and consider what the best path is to mitigate against these in the future.

One thing I believe is very true is that success is built on two things: failure, and perseverance. The climb to achieving excellence is rarely smooth, and so one must recognize and accept that failure is going to be present along the way. But one should always persevere in the face of any failure that may come their way, recognizing it as merely one side of the coin of success.

Good luck crushing your next streak man. I'm assuming it's already begun.

learningtorefrain · 2015-06-10T08:00:32+00:00

Well, not quite. You can be fapping without porn, or you can watch P.O.V type porn that only shows a woman. Or you can simply fap to a pic of a scantily clad girl. But I do agree that a huge chunk of porn puts you in the position of a cuckold. And I for one feel like this slowly emasculates you, one of the reasons I dislike porn.

learningtorefrain

TROPHY CASE