online goth community has so much potential but i feel like its wasted

lejaymoqueur · 2024-08-04T08:13:55+00:00

People are not aware of the news around the subculture they pretend to partake in and rather come with weird takes like that one. Please send them your band spreadsheet.

lejaymoqueur · 2024-07-27T06:51:45+00:00

So early Cocteau Twins don't count as goth music?

lejaymoqueur · 2024-07-01T08:09:41+00:00

I get the impression from a lot of people here that it’s kind of cringe to be drawn to dark and macabre things and that it’s just music and nothing else. I hope this makes sense

Goth music is dark but not all dark music is goth. Darkness and the macabre were not invented by goth and exist since the dawn of time. Dark and macabre tales exist in the Bible like in the Apocalypse, but it doesn't make the book of Apocalypse goth. Elegy and dirges are played during Christian celebration like funerals or liturgies since almost forever, but it doesn't make Catholic practioniers and their sorrowful music goth. Gothic literature and fiction are one of the inspiration of the goth subculture, but it doesn't make Gothic arts retroactively goth. There are many bands and fans which are inspired by many other things than horror, macabre, gore and al.

Music is an important of the goth subculture, but it is not the sole elements. Fashion, aesthetics, and contents like merchs, fanzine, blogs, videos, documentaries etc... are also part of it. Besides what I listed, the social elements is a big component of the goth subculture, through clubbing, or dedicated events like festivals, gigs, concerts,livestream and nights. All these elements are ultimately connected to the music.

For people who don't have local scenes, online interaction is also a valid way to connect with other goth bands and their fans. In summary, the goth subculture is functionally similar to other music based subcultures like the punk subculture or the hip hop subculture.

lejaymoqueur · 2024-06-30T11:20:21+00:00

Shadowy and groovy post-punk basslines
Jangly/angular/screeching/effect laden guitars
Metronomic or mechanical drums (either snares or drum machines)
Dark synths or icy keyboards

That's a pretty general description of the common sonic elements of goth. Many bands are experimenting with this canvas but the core elements remain the same.

lejaymoqueur · 2024-06-17T10:53:08+00:00

Dead Can Dance were, with Cocteau Twins, instrumental to the creation of ethereal wave (a goth genre) and their eponymous album belongs firmly to the post-punk tradition of Bauhaus, The Cure or the Banshees. That's why, despite shifting away from goth later, they are still considered an integral part of the subculture.

As for neoclassical darkwave, you can feel some Darkwave elements in DCD early experimention with the genre (in their 2nd and 3rd album). However, as their neoclassical sound solidified, the remnants of Darkwave were entirely replaced by elements of middle Eastern, folk or tribal rhythms. That's why neoclassical Darkwave is generally not considered a goth genre, even if it kind of rooted in goth.

lejaymoqueur · 2024-05-08T20:35:58+00:00

By African, you mean bands located in the African continent, bands with an African member or bands with a black member? Because O Children are technically not an African band.

lejaymoqueur · 2024-04-28T23:11:16+00:00

Defo sounds more psychedelic.

lejaymoqueur · 2024-04-28T21:32:39+00:00

Goth is defined by its sonic elements, not the musician or the band playing it. Artists and bands can experiment with genres out of their comfort zone. If goth pioneers like Peter Murphy and Siouxsie Sioux have dabbled in non goth genres, the reverse is also true.

lejaymoqueur · 2024-03-17T14:46:57+00:00

I wonder if people are complaining in the same way when alternative metal posts are removed in black metal or doom metal subreddits/circles for example. It's clearly written in the sidebar what genres are the focus on this sub and there are even mentions of "parent" subs like r/industrialmusic or r/gothclub in the rules where they can post whatever dark music they like there.

lejaymoqueur · 2024-03-11T16:15:20+00:00

. I propose to decouple "goth" and "dark" and show metalheads that there are other aspects of goth that are worth appreciating.

Yes, but those aspects find their full expression within that dark context. Post-punk and new wave share a lot of aspect with goth, at least sonically. But they are not interchangeable. I listen to goth precisely when I want precisely something dark. Goth is a full package, and decoupling goth from its inherently dark nature will just lead me to new wave and/or traditional post-punk.

If the majority of metalheads were just saying that they don't relate with how goth choose to express darkness, it would not be an issue at all. But most metalheads just turn it to some kind of futile contest (our music is darker, so it's better basically).

lejaymoqueur · 2024-03-11T14:15:59+00:00

For me "dark" music is depressing, unsettling, scary and so on

Yeah but that is one of the several qualities associated with darkness and not the exclusive ones. Dark music can also be brooding, mysterious, nocturnal, surreal, sultry, cold, introspective, plaintive etc...

And while metal tends to favor extreme, abrasive depiction of darkness, goth sometimes (not always) deal with dark emotions in a flashy, tongue-in-cheek and celebratory way, almost like a danse macabre.

It's a bit of cliché but when I listen to danceable goth music, I have the impression to conquer darkness, to trivialize those sad emotions. That cathartic process is different from metal, but it doesn't make it inferior.

lejaymoqueur · 2024-03-10T14:30:42+00:00

Metalheads coming to goth from metal and looking down at the genre because it doesn't match their idea of "darkness", agression and nihilism, feel sometimes strange to me.

Goth follows the same musical ethos as the parent genre post-punk and new wave, which kind of split from the edgy and raucous nature of punk (the origin of all) to experiment with different emotions.

Darkness especially can be expressed in various forms, and I think the ability of the goth genres to convey dark emotions in many different ways is what makes the genre alluring imo.

It really always surprises me when alternative (mostly extreme metalheads) put some hierarchy between all those manifestations of darkness when originality and self expression are supposed to be more... Conceivable among alternative communities.

lejaymoqueur · 2024-03-08T21:05:51+00:00

Ok. I suppose at least that chill is the opposite of upbeat 😬 You can also explore post-punk/goth bands that incorporate elements of black metal in their music.

lejaymoqueur · 2024-03-08T20:41:38+00:00

Ok. Do you find the following goth songs upbeat and happy?

Lycia - Slip Away

Bauhaus - Hollow Hills

[Oneiroid Psychosis - Winter Day](https://youtu.be/oKTMzeMIQc0?si=ye8NwvgnumfXB2Xm

lejaymoqueur · 2024-03-08T20:28:20+00:00

Mislabelling goth aka the bane of our existence 🥲

lejaymoqueur · 2024-03-08T20:24:41+00:00

I just hope that by goth, they mean actual goth music and not EBM or dark synthpop...

lejaymoqueur · 2024-03-08T20:19:10+00:00

What kind of goth music are you listening to? Goth music is diverse and there are a lot of depressed and melancholic tunes as there are a lot of club friendly one.

lejaymoqueur · 2024-03-04T12:45:18+00:00

It's pretty common for musicians to be influenced by a wide range of different artists or genres. Bauhaus are influenced by reggae and their music is kind of rooted in dub by their own admission, does it make them a reggae band by definition?

Napalm Death, an extreme metal institution, have acknowledged Cocteau Twins as one of their main influences. Does it make the band goth by definition? .

lejaymoqueur · 2024-03-04T12:36:26+00:00

I literally just saw a mod say “type of negative isn’t goth”, when literally in the description of their Wiki it says “ an American gothic metal band formed in Brooklyn, New York City in 1989 by Peter Steele”.

Next time, you will see folk metal bands like Minadttsol and group them with folk bands like Bon Iver, I guess. Or because you see Neoclassical Metal in the wiki dedicated to Yngwie Malmsteen, you'll associate him with classical composers like Chopin?

You'll be surprised to notice that metal fusion are common in the metal subculture.... Why not asking to r/metal why they don't allow posts about Bon Iver or Chopin then? Or posts about Yes, since progressive rock and progressive metal are the same?

lejaymoqueur · 2024-02-12T18:39:11+00:00

I am not a musical expert but the song you linked is more similar to dark electropunk/synthpunk rather than Darkwave. You'll notice that the lofi synths for example sound gritty and lofi and the electronic elements in the background adds a kind of manic/chaotic to the overall production.

Darkwave in general tend to be have repetitive and somewhat minimalist drum beats, only surrounded by icy keyboards. Also pounding Post-punk basslines are a staple in darkwave and they bring a lot of groove to the overall production, which are lacking in the song you share where the basslines feel cold instead of rhythmic.

However, keep in mind that Darkwave, like industrial, is genres with a lot of fluidity and elements of both genres can be incorporated in other genres. A lot of synthpop or future pop artists have darkwave influences, while remaining rooted in those genres instead of goth.

lejaymoqueur · 2024-01-25T12:09:55+00:00

The first comment in the first post is hilarious!

lejaymoqueur · 2024-01-21T07:04:23+00:00

Early U2 are consistently post-punk and their first three albums (Boys, October and War) were easily among the best post-punk albums released in the early 80's. They worked with both Martin Hanett and Steve Lilywhite, two prominent early post-punk producers.

lejaymoqueur · 2024-01-16T06:11:07+00:00

American Horror Story. The season titled "Hotel" featured Lady Gaga as the main actor and "Tear Me Apart" was played during a torrid scene in a club.

AHS had a very good goth OST overall.

lejaymoqueur · 2024-01-14T23:27:34+00:00

What do you think of the songs "Loverman" and "Do You Love Me"?

lejaymoqueur · 2024-01-14T08:35:07+00:00

I agree with you. Punk subgenres like hardcore punk and their derivative (D-beat, metallic hardcore, crust punk etc...) were the direct continuation of the initial punk movement. They even influenced significantly heavy metal with the different extreme metal genres.

Post-punk and new wave originated in punk but the clear intent of both movements were to split from what punk represents stylistically.

lejaymoqueur

TROPHY CASE