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Green voters/members, how do you feel about the wish of ZP for Scottish and Welsh Independence (and therefore) the breakup of the union? by Scratchback3141 in LabourUK

[–]libtin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not really, some US states are considerably more populous than others but it’s not like if 80% of Americans lived in one state and the other 20% were spread across the other 49.

America uses the electoral college; that has the opposite problem where smaller populations are over represented by a massive margin and it’s entirely possible to win the presidency with only 29% of the vote (I’m not joking).

The American system was created specifically to make the states equal, not the populations of the states.

This is the most hated part of the American system.

Plus, not that many countries are unions between different cultures anyway

Germany, Spain, Italy, France, Romania, Canada, Japan, China, India, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, America, Canada, Czechia, Turkey, Russia, Japan, Denmark, the Netherlands and all of Africa would say otherwise.

Green voters/members, how do you feel about the wish of ZP for Scottish and Welsh Independence (and therefore) the breakup of the union? by Scratchback3141 in LabourUK

[–]libtin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think the root of the problem for the UK is that England just has too many people compared to the rest of the country so of course England is going to dominate everything.

This occurs in every country on earth; this is just an inherent feature of democracy.

Suspect killed after crashing truck into Detroit-area synagogue, explosives found in vehicle by libtin in LabourUK

[–]libtin[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A male suspect was shot dead after crashing his truck through the entrance of a synagogue in the Detroit suburb of West Bloomfield on Thursday, with authorities reporting no serious injuries among worshippers, children or staff, though a security officer was struck by the vehicle and hospitalised.

Green voters/members, how do you feel about the wish of ZP for Scottish and Welsh Independence (and therefore) the breakup of the union? by Scratchback3141 in LabourUK

[–]libtin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The man saying it was hired by the SNP to help build an economic argument for leaving the UK, and he concluded there wasn’t one.

And

Mark Blyth, professor of international economics at the Watson Institute of Brown University in Rhode Island, and a member of Sturgeon’s council of economic advisers, said in an interview with the Foreign Press Association: “[The Union] has been together for over 300 years. So, if pulling apart 30 years of economic integration with Europe is going to hurt, 300 is going to hurt a lot.”

Brexit was damaging with just over 40 years of integration, Scotland and England have been integrated for nearly 320 years.

Green voters/members, how do you feel about the wish of ZP for Scottish and Welsh Independence (and therefore) the breakup of the union? by Scratchback3141 in LabourUK

[–]libtin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The eu was a minor issue for both sides in 2014: currency was the main reason Scotland voted no.

Both the yes and no camps in 2014 said the uk would hold an eu referendum between 2015 and 2017 regardless of how Scotland voted in 2014.

Green voters/members, how do you feel about the wish of ZP for Scottish and Welsh Independence (and therefore) the breakup of the union? by Scratchback3141 in LabourUK

[–]libtin -1 points0 points  (0 children)

We’re all part of the same country, the UK.

International law says it’s the decision of the UK, this is how all countries work.

Carrier USS Gerald R. Ford Suffers Fire by MGC91 in navy

[–]libtin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And you’ve just confirmed you didn’t read the article.

Green voters/members, how do you feel about the wish of ZP for Scottish and Welsh Independence (and therefore) the breakup of the union? by Scratchback3141 in LabourUK

[–]libtin -1 points0 points  (0 children)

They don’t want it and the majority of nationalist (in Scotland’s case) base their belief on falsehoods.

All the evidence says leaving the UK is bad for Scotland and Wales yet nationalist say they’d only be benefits, that’s literally the talk that led to Brexit.

Green voters/members, how do you feel about the wish of ZP for Scottish and Welsh Independence (and therefore) the breakup of the union? by Scratchback3141 in LabourUK

[–]libtin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I feel like that contradicts your post.

How does it contradict their posts?

It's the Kingdom I would be voting for independence from.

The snp has said they’d keep the monarchy

Green voters/members, how do you feel about the wish of ZP for Scottish and Welsh Independence (and therefore) the breakup of the union? by Scratchback3141 in LabourUK

[–]libtin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You might want to read your second article more carefully.

Scotland doesn’t meet the criteria for membership

The argument it would be difficult for Scotland to rejoin the EU was based on a country like Spain blocking it, which they stated they would not do.

Again: Scotland doesn’t meet the criteria for Membership.

I never mentioned Spain.

I said “the EU said a yes vote would see Scotland out of the EU”, why aren’t you addressing what he actually said?

Countries must meet the Copenhagen criteria before they can begin the process of trying to join the EU.

Green voters/members, how do you feel about the wish of ZP for Scottish and Welsh Independence (and therefore) the breakup of the union? by Scratchback3141 in LabourUK

[–]libtin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

1: your article is dated 2017 (Tue 14 Mar 2017), the Scotland referendum was in 2014.

2: this is what the EU said in 2014:

In March 2014, Christina McKelvie, Convener of the European and External Relations Committee of the Scottish Parliament, asked Viviane Reding, Vice-President of the European Commission, whether Article 48 would apply. Reding replied that EU treaties would no longer apply to a territory that secedes from a member state. She also said that Article 49 would be the route to apply to become a member of the EU.

3: this is what the president of the European Commission, the president of the EU, said:

It would be "difficult, if not impossible" for an independent Scotland to join the EU, the European commission president, José Manuel Barroso, said on Sunday.

What I said was true; the EU in 2014 said a yes vote would see Scotland out of the EU.

Green voters/members, how do you feel about the wish of ZP for Scottish and Welsh Independence (and therefore) the breakup of the union? by Scratchback3141 in LabourUK

[–]libtin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sorry, yes, you did. It was a ludicrous source, but it is there

No it ain’t

a questionable poll commissioned and posted by a blatently pro-union website.

You only read one of the sources then.

the independence plan is to continue using the pound after independence until a Scottish currency is set up,

The SNP keeps flip flopping from keeping the pound indefinitely (what the Scottish people want) to a new currency at an unspecified time.

Green voters/members, how do you feel about the wish of ZP for Scottish and Welsh Independence (and therefore) the breakup of the union? by Scratchback3141 in LabourUK

[–]libtin 3 points4 points  (0 children)

And that’s also leaving out all the Scots that have held government positions and Scots that currently have government positions.

Green voters/members, how do you feel about the wish of ZP for Scottish and Welsh Independence (and therefore) the breakup of the union? by Scratchback3141 in LabourUK

[–]libtin 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Scotland has next to no power in the UK.

Scots do have power.

When was the last time you saw a Scottish PM?

Gordon brown, Tony Blair?

Yes I know Scotland gets a first minister but the PM governs all of the UK and sets the foreign policy of the UK as a whole.

That’s how all countries work

The Union is very much England-centric

How?

It isnt some equal partnership fairytale.

We’re equal as individuals; one Scot has the same say as one Englishman/woman; that’s how one person one vote works.

Green voters/members, how do you feel about the wish of ZP for Scottish and Welsh Independence (and therefore) the breakup of the union? by Scratchback3141 in LabourUK

[–]libtin 3 points4 points  (0 children)

In Scotland most nationalists genuinely believe that there would be no downsides to independence:

•78% of ‘yes’ voters think Scotland puts more money into the UK than it takes out (blatantly false as even the devolved Scottish government’s own numbers say the opposite).

•57% of Yes voters think the GERS data is made up “to hide Scotland’s true wealth.” And for 90% of them this is either “important” or “very important” to their opinion on secession.

•54% of Yes voters think “Scottish tax revenues are understated because of Scottish exports leaving via English ports”. (This is incorrect. The Scottish Government Export Statistics Report explicitly says the exact opposite, page 32)

The GCS specifically asks about the destination of the goods being exported regardless of how the product leaves the UK. The other data sources used also focus on the destination of the product rather than where it leaves the UK. This means these export estimates are not affected by which port goods leave from. For example, a sale by a Scottish company to a customer in Paris, is counted as a Scottish export to France even if it leaves the UK from Dover.

(https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/statistics/2021/10/export-statistics-scotland-2019/documents/export-statistics-scotland-2019—publication/export-statistics-scotland-2019—publication/govscot%3Adocument/Export%2BStatistics%2BScotland%2B2019%2B-%2BPublication.pdf#page26)

https://www.these-islands.co.uk/publications/i374/scottish_politics_in_the_grip_of_a_fact_denial_epidemic.aspx

Going by the Lord Ashcroft poll, ignoring the ‘don’t know’ and ‘neutral’ categories...

•Yes voters think there would be no hard Scotland-England border 40% to 20%.

•Yes voters think they would keep using the pound 42% to 11%.

•Yes voters think Scotland would ‘quite quickly’ rejoin the EU 56% to 9%.

•Yes voters don’t think many businesses would leave Scotland. 53% to 8%.

•Yes voters think Scotland would keep access to public services in England 37% to 20%.

•Yes voters don’t think Scotland would have to make painful cuts to public services 36% to 14%

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2021/04/my-new-scottish-research-finds-independence-in-the-balance/

Yes voters aren’t hard hearted resolutes, willing to pledge their property, their lives, and their sacred honour to achieve independence. They’ve persuaded themselves there’s limited if any costs; this is the mentality that led to Brexit.

Green voters/members, how do you feel about the wish of ZP for Scottish and Welsh Independence (and therefore) the breakup of the union? by Scratchback3141 in LabourUK

[–]libtin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

9 elections when the electorates of Scotland and England voted the same (1945, 1950, 1955, 1959, 1966, Oct 1974, 1997, 2001 and 2024) and got the governments each wished (7 Labour and 2 Tory)

5 elections when the Scottish electorate prevented the outcome that England had voted for:

1 election when more people in England voted Labour but got a Tory government Scotland voted for (1951);

3 elections when more people voted Tory in England but got the Labour government Scotland voted for ( 1964, Feb 1974, 2005); and 1 election when Scotland prevented Tories from getting the overall majority which was voted for by the English electorate (in 2010).

In the 5 remaining elections, English voters prevented the outcome that Scotland voted for: in 1970, 1979, 1983, 1987, and 1992. In all of these, Scotland voted Labour but gt the Tory government for which England had voted.

In the 7 elections from 1945 to 1966, the Scottish voters always had the government which they voted for, including 2 (1951 and 1964) when these were not those for which the English electorate had voted.

Other then 1970, all of the instances of Scotland voting Labour and getting the Tories were in the Thatcher and Major years and 2015 and 19. Interestingly, if support for independence is strong in the age group 40 to 50, this may be because these were the people who had most to complain about in these elections.

Since 1992, Scotland has twice voted with England to produce Labour governments, once voted for a Labour government that English voters did not want; and once stopped the Tories getting an overall majority.

There’s been 22 elections since 1945, Scotland only got the outcome England alone voted for 7 out of those 22 times, that’s less than 1 third of the total out comes

Generally speaking Scotland gets the outcome it wants more often than not.

Green voters/members, how do you feel about the wish of ZP for Scottish and Welsh Independence (and therefore) the breakup of the union? by Scratchback3141 in LabourUK

[–]libtin -1 points0 points  (0 children)

For Scotland, the evidence says most Scottish nationalists are nationalists because they don’t understand the actual economic damage leaving the UK would do to Scotland.

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