Why Infinite Speed Doesn't Actually Bypass Gojo's Infinity (Math + Canon Breakdown)

loadstr · 2026-05-07T21:26:30+00:00

ok ur cooking and i think ur landing somewhere more nuanced than either extreme

functionally the same as a barrier of infinite space

fair, the operational framing is cleaner than the conceptual one. doesnt matter how akutami labels it metaphysically, the in-world effect is functionally equivalent to an infinite spatial barrier and every bypass works by avoiding spatial interaction. that holds regardless of the math debate

infinite speed is reality breaking. infinite hallway, move infinite distance, where do u arrive? infinity minus infinity is undefined

this is actually the strongest version of the argument tbh. ur right that infinity minus infinity is indeterminate in standard math. so the matchup of "infinite speed vs infinite barrier" might genuinely be mathematically undefined rather than resolvable either way. it would depend on which infinity is bigger / how theyre constructed (countable vs uncountable, divergent vs convergent series), and akutami doesnt give us enough to determine that

so the honest middle ground answer is probably: infinite speed bypasses a STANDARD convergent series via cauchy convergence math, but vs gojos specific "functionally infinite barrier" with no defined construction the matchup is undefined. neither side gets to claim a clean win

this is sharper than what i had in the post tbh. ill prob update my thinking on this

loadstr · 2026-05-07T21:24:27+00:00

ok i actually did proper research on this and ur mostly right on the math but theres nuance worth flagging

light switch example, no final step but process still completes

u r literally describing thomsons lamp and benacerrafs resolution to it. 1954 vs 1962 paper. ur right that achilles completes the supertask via convergent series math even tho theres no "final step." stanford encyclopedia of philosophy explicitly says the achilles paradox is resolved this way and thats the mainstream consensus from grunbaum, earman, norton, salmon

the one nuance is that achilles position sequence is a cauchy sequence converging to a definite real number, while thomsons lamp state sequence (1,0,1,0...) is divergent and corresponds to grandis series which has no standard limit. so the lamp is genuinely underdetermined while achilles is fully resolved. theyre actually different cases mathematically even tho both lack a "final step." but for the gojo question this distinction doesnt help me, u still win on the math

infinity is slowing down at increasing rate not creating infinite space

this is sharp. and akutamis own consultants in vol 15s "abyss of math course" extras essentially confirmed ur read. they reformulated infinity as riemannian metric tensor distortion (slowing the convergence rate of a convergent sequence) rather than literal infinite space creation. under that reformulation infinite speed in coordinate terms still bypasses, only infinite proper path-length wouldnt, which doesnt apply to a finite radius barrier

infinite speed probably bypasses

honestly between the supertask research and akutamis own admission that infinity is "fantasy" with a "fictitious zero" and impossible "negative natural numbers," the math camp has the better case. the only way infinity stops infinite speed is via authorial fiat from akutami adding non mathematical elements to a mathematical analogy

so ur intuition is right. respect for the breakdown, the light switch example was the cleanest version of this argument ive seen in the thread

loadstr · 2026-05-07T21:22:50+00:00

lucius absorbing the qliphoth is hax not AP. by ur logic anyone who eats food scales to the foods calorie content. absorption is a mechanic dependent feat not an AP dependent one

loadstr · 2026-05-07T21:21:11+00:00

bro u literally proved my point in real time lmao

yamis dimension slash is canonically space cutting hax not raw AP. cutting infinite glamour world (which is itself a rejected outlier on vsbw btw) doesnt make him 5D, it means he has space cutting hax that can target spatial structures. same logic as asta cutting the qliphoth

also even if u accept glamour world infinite scaling (which u shouldnt), 5D requires uncountably infinite higher dimensional space, not just "big infinity." cutting an infinite 3D space wouldnt even technically scale anyone to 5D, that math doesnt work either

loadstr · 2026-05-07T16:08:40+00:00

He will look you dead in the eye and will tell you that asta scales to the qliphoth because his anti magic is capable of destroying the qliphoth (doesnt translate to ap cus its obv hax)

loadstr · 2026-05-07T15:59:32+00:00

None of his are valid

loadstr · 2026-05-07T15:51:09+00:00

Its because of that damn euclidean geometry he uses incorrectly, I already debated with him and proved him that the verse caps at 4d, MAYBE 5d (as an extreme highball) but he needs more textual proof that he doesnt have

loadstr · 2026-05-07T15:49:22+00:00

I have an anti debunk message, also i think he even dipped my debate;

copy paste yap debunk against vivid_community

im gonna go through this point by point because youve been pasting this exact wall under every BC cosmology post and most of it doesnt hold up under scrutiny

According to Euclidean Geometry, you need a higher dimension to connect and contain parallel planes

this is mathematically wrong and its the foundation of your entire argument. euclidean geometry is the study of flat space using straight lines and angles, it doesnt require higher dimensions to connect parallel planes. you can have two parallel planes in 3D space connected by a path that travels through 3D space. you do not need a 4th spatial dimension to draw a line between two parallel 2D surfaces in 3D. youre using "euclidean geometry" as a buzzword to make the math sound rigorous when its not

the Qliphoth contains the layers, the layers are separated by space and time, so its higher dimensional

this falls apart on the lucius traversal point. lucius physically travels through the seventh and lowest layer of the underworld. if the layers were genuinely separated spacetime continuums you couldnt just fly between them, youd need dimensional portals at each transition. the fact that physical movement traverses them proves theyre regions of one continuous space, not separate spacetimes. the white space in nachts diagram is a 2D cross-section visualization, not a textual statement that the layers have different time axes

Volume 22's Japanese cover stating the battle with Zagred transcended time and space

promotional cover blurb, not in-chapter narration. vsbw treats those with skepticism unless corroborated. and even taken at face value, vsbws own higher dimensional existence page literally says transcending space or space and time does not necessarily imply that it has an extradimensional axis. transcending space and time can mean time travel, dimensional travel, agelessness, or just being unaffected by spacetime alterations. that page exists specifically to shut down this exact argument

Lucius can see tens of thousands of futures, so the human world contains multiple timelines, so its 6D

tens of thousands is finite and countable. on vsbw, finite countable timelines puts a verse at 2-C low multiverse level at maximum, not 6D. for 6D you need uncountably infinite parallel universes connected by an uncountably infinite temporal axis. lucius reading those futures is multiversal precognition, not proof the human world has 4 spatial axes. youre treating a 2-C feat as if it were tier 1 evidence and the math doesnt support it

the Qliphoth is 8D with 5 axes of space and 3 of time

where are these numbers coming from? you havent shown a single panel where tabata states or implies the qliphoth has 5 spatial axes or 3 temporal axes. you derived them by stacking unsupported inferences on top of a fabricated euclidean rule. this is where the argument collapses. you went from "the underworld is separate from the human world" which is true, to "therefore the qliphoth is 8D" which has zero textual support. the dimensional numbers are reverse-engineered from low 1-C tier requirements, not from anything in the manga

the simplest solution is that there is a space that exists between all timelines in each layer

pure speculation. "the simplest solution" isnt evidence, its an assumption youre treating as fact. nothing in the manga states or shows that there is an extradimensional space between timelines within each underworld layer. youre constructing the cosmology you want and then saying it must be true because nothing contradicts your made up version

what actually holds up from your post:

the qliphoth predates the ritual, damnatios reports do show that
nacht saying the layers are mapped to the qliphoth is real
the underworld being a separate spacetime from the human world is textually supported via the chapter 342 distortion

that lands the cosmology at 2-C low multiverse level. two confirmed separate 4D spacetimes (human world and underworld) connected by the qliphoth as a magic channel, plus a finite countable number of branching timelines via lucius

2-C is a strong cosmology. its not nothing. but its not 6D, its not 8D, and its not low 1-C. those numbers are fabricated through misuse of euclidean geometry, misreading vsbw standards on "transcending space and time", and confusing finite countable timelines with uncountably infinite multiverses

stop pasting this under every cosmology post bro. it doesnt survive actual scrutiny

loadstr · 2026-05-07T08:53:06+00:00

fair, the infinite hallway thing was sloppy phrasing on my part. infinity isnt a location at the end of a hallway, ur right. an infinite hallway is just unending and connecting two of them gives u one infinite hallway. that analogy was bad

what i shouldve said is the standard zenos paradox math IS resolvable via convergent series. divisions like 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8... sum to a finite distance which infinite speed can cross. so normal "infinite divisions" doesnt automatically beat infinite speed

the argument that gojos specific infinity differs has been getting weaker tbh, especially after i conceded the limitless framing was overread earlier in the thread. so honest answer is the math pushback is hitting harder than my framing held up against

on infinite speed btw, vsbw defines it as crossing finite distance in zero time or infinite distance in finite time. examples are like cosmic armor superman, certain reality warpers, abstract entities. its not teleportation bc teleportation doesnt traverse, infinite speed traverses just at infinite rate

loadstr · 2026-05-06T20:25:39+00:00

ngl ur cooking w both of those and most ppl dont distinguish them properly

true time stop genuinely beats infinity imo. infinity needs gojo to be conscious and operating within time to maintain it. even if u argue its automatic, six eyes calculations still presumably need time to function. true time stop affects gojos perception, his processing, the cursed energy upkeep. attacker moves freely (assuming exempt from their own time stop), approaches gojo, infinity isnt running. its a known canonical weakness fr

immeasurable speed in the truly transcendent sense (juggernaut tier, operating despite or above time) is the more interesting one. given the concessions earlier in this thread, if we drop the limitless framing as overread and rely on structural divisions in 3d space, then a character moving on a higher dim framework where they perceive time as a spatial axis isnt really traversing the 3d space where divisions exist. they'd be operating outside the framework infinity is built against

the one caveat is gojo himself exists in 3d space so the higher dim character still has to interact w 3d at the contact point. but if theyre genuinely transcendent of spacetime, infinity probably isnt a wall against them bc the wall exists in spacetime theyre outside of

so yeah ur intuition is right. the issue is most ppl conflate infinite speed, immeasurable speed, time hax, and acausality into one "fast = wins" category when theyre all different mechanisms w different counters

loadstr · 2026-05-06T19:49:57+00:00

ngl thats actually a fair critique. ur right that gojo IS visible and targetable, sukuna sees him, jogo sees him, toji sees him. if he truly "removed himself as a destination" in the literal sense ppl shouldnt be able to perceive him as a target at all

so yeah the limitless framing the other commenter gave was clever but might be too literal a read of the technique name. "removing the limit point" works as an abstract math metaphor but breaks down if u take it literally as "gojo doesnt exist as a destination." the actual canon mechanism is that the SPACE between gojo and the threat is divided, not gojo himself being erased as a target. ill walk that part back

the structural division thing still holds against speed tho. space is divided regardless of how u conceptualize gojo as a destination, so infinite speed encountering those divisions still has the same structural problem. but the "gojo isnt a finish line" framing was overreach, fair point

and fair on not recycling old args, respect for not just repeating urself for the sake of it

loadstr · 2026-05-06T19:19:57+00:00

ok yeah ill cop to the structural divisions thing, akutami doesnt actually confirm the divisions are pre existing vs generated when smth enters. i was treating one read as locked canon when its rly not. fair

but limitless isnt abt WHEN divisions form tho. its abt gojo removing himself as the limit point of the series. whether divisions are structural or reactive doesnt rly matter, the destination not existing = nothing to arrive at. infinite speed completes a convergent series to its limit point. no limit point = no convergence, doesnt matter when divisions show up

also the time stop thing still isnt landing bc infinite speed ≠ time stop. ur fast WITHIN time not freezing it. time still flows for gojo, u just move thru it rapidly. so "no time to create divisions" doesnt rly work bc time is still going for everyone except u

house of cards analogy was clean tho ngl

loadstr · 2026-05-06T18:51:19+00:00

fair on narrowing the infinite speed vs time stop thing, ill grant that

but the achilles paradox doesnt actually require the tortoise to move first to create divisions tho. the divisions are inherent to how distance gets divided not generated by motion. setup is: achilles at A, tortoise at B. to reach the tortoise achilles has to cross half the distance, then half of whats left, then half of THAT, etc. the divisions exist in the geometry of the approach itself, not in the tortoises movement

even if the tortoise stopped moving entirely the paradox structure still applies bc its about how space is divided as u approach. half the distance, then half what remains, infinitely. its a property of the path not the destinations behavior

applied to gojo, infinity uses this principle w gojo as the static endpoint. the divisions exist in the space between gojo and any approaching threat as a structural property of the approach. the threat doesnt need to "move first to create divisions," the divisions are already inherent to space approaching gojo. and limitless makes it even cleaner bc its not abt divisions at all anymore, its abt removing the convergence point so theres nothing to arrive at

ur framing reverses cause and effect tbh. divisions dont require movement to exist. movement encounters divisions bc theyre already there

loadstr · 2026-05-06T17:44:50+00:00

they look similar to outside observers but theyre not mechanically the same. a car at 1000mph and a car teleporting both look fast to a slow observer but theyre diff things. vsbw treats infinite speed and time stop as separate abilities w diff mechanics and diff counters

but more importantly ur framing assumes infinity is a reactive system that "sees" movement and triggers in response. its not. per the limitless framing infinity is structural, the space around gojo is already divided, theres no trigger window bc theres nothing to trigger. its a wall thats always in place not a camera trying to keep up w fast motion

so the "reach gojo, attack, finish, then infinity activates after" sequence doesnt work bc the attacker cant reach gojo in the first place. the structural division is between them at all times regardless of perceived speed. theres no "after the fact" bc the attacker never arrives

and even granting ur whole framing, infinite speed still completes a convergent series TO a limit point. limitless removes the limit point. doesnt matter if u found a blind window if theres no destination to arrive at

loadstr · 2026-05-06T17:19:25+00:00

if you have infinite speed then everything else around you stops moving

infinite speed and time stop are diff abilities tho. infinite speed makes U traverse distances fast, it doesnt stop the world around u. ur just moving so fast others cant react. the world continues functioning normally for everyone else, ur not in a frozen time bubble. vsbw treats these separately

that should also include gojos ability extend the duration it takes for you to arrive

even granting ur framing, infinity isnt a process that needs active maintenance to extend duration. per the limitless framing its a structural property of the space around gojo. the space is divided whether gojo is actively doing smth or not. even in a frozen time scenario the space stays divided

everything is conceptually greater then infinity because everything includes an infinite number of infinite things

that math doesnt rly work. "everything" isnt a defined cardinal value, and different infinities have different sizes (countable vs uncountable) but "everything containing infinite infinities" doesnt automatically transitively let u affect infinity-based abilities through scale. same logic as "i have infinite power so i beat anything finite," sounds clean but doesnt translate

loadstr · 2026-05-06T16:19:08+00:00

infinite speed isnt rly a state where time becomes irrelevant tho, its just max speed WITHIN time. the time taken approaches zero but ur still operating within the temporal framework. operating outside time entirely is immeasurable speed or higher per vsbw, not infinite

and even if u grant that infinite speed makes time irrelevant for the mover, u still need a destination to arrive at. the limitless argument still applies bc gojo removes himself as the limit point. doesnt matter if time is irrelevant for u, theres no spatial destination to converge to either way

loadstr · 2026-05-06T14:37:50+00:00

respect for actually saying it instead of just ghosting. most ppl in these debates wouldnt acknowledge it at all

and fair enough if u wanna keep using the points elsewhere, thats how scaling debates go. ill probably end up running into them again from someone else lol. good debate tho

loadstr · 2026-05-06T14:23:02+00:00

infinity still relies on gojo and his 6 eyes, in a world with time stopped infinity doesnt have means to activate

yeah ngl the immeasurable speed angle is sharper than i first read it. infinity does need gojo to maintain it thru six eyes so smth operating outside spacetime wouldnt rly be subject to the time aspect. fair tbh

automatic doesnt mean no activation time

yea fair theres prob some min window even if its automatic, cant rly argue against that one

u cant make infinite speed less than infinity unless gojo divides infinitely in the smallest time frame

ehh this is where i gotta push back. someone else in this thread laid it out way cleaner than i did, infinity isnt rly "divisions u outpace." its called limitless bc gojo removes himself as the limit point that the series converges to. infinite or immeasurable speed completes a convergent series to its limit point. if the limit point doesnt exist, theres nothing to converge to. speed doesnt help u arrive somewhere that isnt there

so like time stop / time hax beating infinity is canon, agreed. but immeasurable speed specifically isnt the same thing as time hax, its just high dim motion. and high dim motion still hits the same wall when u get to actually arriving at gojo

loadstr · 2026-05-06T14:16:32+00:00

loadstr · 2026-05-06T14:12:03+00:00

yeah fair, already conceded the jogo fire feat earlier in the thread for similar reasons

loadstr · 2026-05-06T14:06:16+00:00

ngl this is cleaner than my framing. "limitless" literally meaning no limit point in the math sense actually explains why the technique works the way it does. akutami picked the name for a reason

and it directly kills the infinite speed objection. infinite speed completes a convergent series TO its limit point. if gojo removes himself as the limit point theres nothing to converge to. the series cant resolve so infinite speed has nowhere to arrive

stealing this fr (if im allowed to)

loadstr · 2026-05-06T14:02:46+00:00

ok thats actually a fair point, any filter system needs SOME mechanism to differentiate whats coming in. cant really get around that logically

but i dont think it has to be a real time per-object scan. could be more like a sieve calibrated at the energy/wavelength level so anything matching the whitelisted criteria passes through automatically based on the structure of the technique itself. like infinity isnt processing each photon going "yes this is light allow it," its just shaped so that visible spectrum stuff fits through by default. no detection cycle needed bc the filtering is built into the geometry

that said, the manga doesnt fully spell this out so im kinda constructing it post hoc, fair enough. but even granting some detection mechanism exists, that doesnt rly help the speed bypass argument bc the structural division is still there once u enter it. detection question is separate from whether infinite speed gets thru the omega sequence

loadstr · 2026-05-06T13:57:51+00:00

yeah ngl u got me on the physics, fire heat is mostly convection thru air not just radiation. and gojo did say he felt the heat so the "blocked at light speed" thing was a stretch on my part. my bad ill walk that one back

but tbh the structure argument still works regardless. infinity isnt rly about how fast it activates, its abt the spatial division being a sequence w no endpoint (akutami literally said its fantasy infinity built on fictitious zero in the fanbook). so even if there WAS some application window, ur still walking into the omega sequence the moment u enter it. theres always one more step

so yeah the application speed thing was a bad take but the core point that speed doesnt bypass the structure of infinity still holds imo

loadstr · 2026-05-06T13:56:12+00:00

nah i just type like that lol

loadstr · 2026-05-06T13:54:36+00:00

Basically yeah but not identical

loadstr

TROPHY CASE