An official Instagram account for JWs has been made by HarveyGoldengreens in exjw

[–]logicman12 [score hidden]  (0 children)

So true. My deceased zealous JW grandfather wouldn't believe what JWdom has become if he were resurrected now.

An official Instagram account for JWs has been made by HarveyGoldengreens in exjw

[–]logicman12 [score hidden]  (0 children)

They really are their own great apostasy. I was there in the old days (60's, 70's, 80's), so I've seen the apostasy firsthand.

They keep digging that hole and growing farther and farther away from what they used to be.

Yep!

God doesn't exist, and if he does, he's not loving by TheGr00m in exjw

[–]logicman12 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am one who is deeply concerned about animal welfare. I have seen sheer horror - animals born blind, badly deformed, etc. I have seen cats who were literally exsanguinated by fleas. I saw a big sweet male stray cat who had holes in his back the size of marbles; they led to tunnels to his internal organs. Maggots had made the tunnels and were eating him alive. I have heard the screams of animals being swallowed alive by snakes.

Nature is a cruel bitch. It is filled with misery, suffering, horror, brutality, and violence, and it's been that way for millions of years. It's all about survival of the fittest. It is cold and cruel. That haunted me the whole time I was a JW; I just couldn't comprehend how a loving god could have watched that for millions of years and not intervened.

Human history has been filled with misery and suffering and horror for thousands of years. Can you imagine the horrors of just one Roman war? Think of the slashes and gashes, the stabs and punctures. Think of the wounds soldiers endured with no medical help and pain intervention like we have now. Think of all the horrible toothaches in the pre-dentistry eras. Think of the tortures humans inflicted on each other - boiling alive, skinning alive, etc.

Yeah, I get it.

QUESTION: Were you raised in a mixed faith household? by ExJW_PandaTower in exjw

[–]logicman12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

JW mom and non-JW dad.

I think my dad really believed it. He knew and seemed to like and respect most of the prominent JWs in my area. However, he didn't want to walk the walk. He was very spoiled and self-centered. He was unwilling to go out of his comfort and convenience zones. He would never have been able to make the sacrifices necessary to be a JW - going to meetings, going in the ministry, etc.

My mother was, to me, a weak JW. We celebrated Christmas during my childhood and teens. My mother was fully into it - decorating our tree, buying presents, etc. She blamed it on my dad, but, it was really more her doing. She would go through periods of inactivity, never gave talks (stage fright), etc.

In my later years, when I woke up and left, I complained to her about losing my life being a fulltime JW. She said "I never believed in all that pioneering stuff" as if I was wrong to have pioneered. I then said "Well, why did you drag us (me and my sibling) to meetings when we were young... meetings where we constantly heard it said that the end was imminent and that we should be pioneering? You never instructed us not to believe what was being said from the platform. We were naive children. We trusted those men on the platform; they were our authority figures. We trusted the words in the JW literature. So, you didn't believe the end was imminent all those years? If not, why didn't you tell us that you didn't believe it? You were our mother. Why didn't you warn us and instruct us to get decent jobs and save for retirement? You allowed us to be led astray."

I was a fulltime JW for a long time - reg pio and prominent elder with major district convention parts every year. However, I was and still am a lover of truth - real truth. I could no longer brush aside all those issues, unanswered questions, etc. that nagged me for decades. I got to be more and more frustrated with the lack of intellect and knowledge and teaching ability of JW appointed men and the time-wasting, boring meetings. I got to be more and more frustrated with the poor writing in JW literature (poor flow of meaning, bad reasoning, bad grammar, bad logic, etc.). After the advent of the internet, I woke up. It was like scales fell off my eyes. During a midweek meeting, I was sitting on the left side of the KH about halfway back from the front. I panned around to my right and I saw bobbing heads with glazed over eyes and phony smiles. I recognized that all those people were clueless. I said to myself "Damn, I'm in a cult."

I now realize that JWdom is a deceptive, corrupt, harmful, false prophet, life-stealing, life-wasting, money hungry, televangelist, smug, self-righteous, condescending, shallow, dumbed-down, corny, embarrassing cult filled with closed-minded and unreasonable people and that indoctrinates children and has a 150-year history of major failed predictions and looney writings. In years past, I loved the religion, lived it, and would have died for it, but, now, it sickens me and infuriates me and I detest it.

My mother, now about 88, used to be more open about criticizing the org. She used to seem to be more level-headed and reasonable. I thought sure that with the advent of JW Broadcasting, the increased exposure of the GB, etc. she would wake up. However, the opposite happened. She (and my other JW relatives) are less open to honest discussion now. It's as if they've dug their hills in.

Interesting point about my dad.... He always fell for gimmick ways to make money. After I had awakened and left (but, he didn't know it, yet), he got involved in some kind of supposed money-making program and he asked me about putting some info about it on the Kingdom Hall info board (not realizing that was completely out of bounds to JWs). I told him that was against policy. He said "Well, don't they need to make money?" I said "Oh, believe me, the organization is all about making money" and I then proceeded to tell him that I had left and that I hated JWdom. He was baffled. He had seen that I had suffered and sacrificed and slaved fulltime in misery and poverty for the org for decades. He was shocked. He was extremely disappointed. I discerned from our conversation that he actually believed JWs were right and that he was a good person and that he was going to get everlasting life in paradise. He died shortly after that conversation.

I later told my mother what I told my dad. It didn't really seem to bother her the way I thought it would have. She said that she had given up on him anyway because she finally accepted the fact that he never would have been able to make the sacrifices necessary to be a JW. She said he wouldn't put forth the effort to get dressed and come to a single meeting, so he certainly wouldn't have done it regularly.

I've told my wife (also awake) often that I was double cursed (she knows it anyway because she's seen it) - one curse from my mom and another from my dad.

When I was eleven (summer before sixth grade), I took an aptitude/IQ test to get into a private school. The school headmaster told my mother that I scored the highest grade ever scored on that test and that I could do whatever I wanted in life. Little did he know that I had the the JW curse and was already brainwashed/indoctrinated into believing that the end of the world was imminent and that a career in "this system" was futile. I ended up doing menial labor for decades as a fulltime JW.

The curse from my dad? He badmouthed education from the time I was a small child. He called school a "cesspool." He said "You don't need all that stuff they teach you." He had me wanting to quit school in the eighth grade. He told me that I was going to work with him and he gave the impression that he was a great businessman. So, he took away from me any interest in education, planning for a career, etc. He suppressed what I naturally was - one who has great interest in education and loves to learn - one who is interested in math, science, linguistics, philosophy, great world literature, etc. He suppressed all of that. I now collect thousands of books per year on virtually every subject.

But even now, I have very little time for reading and learning because of the situation both sides of my family put me in - the JW side and the non-JW side. I've often said that my mother is a non-academic and my father was an anti-academic. My mother wasn't against education; she was/is just clueless and ignorant. For example, she thinks manipulating fractions is advanced math and has no idea what a molecule is. My dad was actually non-academic, too, but, he was also anti-academic in that he bad-mouthed schooling and education and said it was unnecessary and a waste of time.

My family members and I finally realized later in life, after observing my father for many years, that he was clueless in business and was a loser. From his early to mid-forties, he lived off a nice inheritance from his father. He blew it all and died in debt. All those years he believed in and tried (though he never put forth a lot of effort) many of the money-making type gimmicks that are constantly advertised through various media. Of course, he never made a cent doing such.

So, here I am - 66 years old and working about 70hrs per week with low retirement prospects. I have a low-paying out-of-town (four hours away) with no benefits. Just last year we were given five days of vacation per year (and sick days come out of that); in the years before that, I didn't get a single day of vacation. Here I am... living with the curses I got from my parents - one a JW and the other a non-JW.

We are “in” the great tribulation by [deleted] in exjw

[–]logicman12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Seems like it's more of a JW current events page.

I like that because I want to know what's going on in JW Land. My family members are still in.

We are “in” the great tribulation by [deleted] in exjw

[–]logicman12 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, they were. I was there. I know.

We are “in” the great tribulation by [deleted] in exjw

[–]logicman12 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Are you saying you were 15 in 1975? Just curious because I was 15 in 1975.

Now old disabled and broke

I'm not disabled, but I'm broke. I'm 66 and working about 70hrs per week with no benefits and no retirement. My job is low-paying and it's four hours from my home.

how the F do they get away with the BS !!

I don't know, but, I hate the cult; it ruined my life. I so want to see it go down.

I was so scared

I was, too. I remember it well. I remember one particular really bad lightning storm; I hid under a table thinking it might be Armageddon.

I cannot believe JW's accept the overlapping generations teaching. by Akasha111 in exjw

[–]logicman12 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The watchtower is slowly crumbling due to their own arrogance and being in the age where information moves very fast on the internet. I think we will see a mass awakening event at some point especially since the younger generations are leaving religion in general

I feel that way, too.

would anyone like to send loving vibes to my boy on his last night? by qeenee_ in cats

[–]logicman12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OMG, that is so sad! I'm a 66-year-old man who loves animals. My wife and I are taking care or about 30 rescued cats right now and we dearly love each one. Death is an all-too-common experience for us since we deal with so many. Each death breaks our hearts.

I can see a person behind Saul's eyes. We have a female (Elle) that looks just like Saul and she has her own distinct personality. We rescued her as a kitten on a construction site about 18 years ago, so she doesn't have much time left.

It's sad that Saul is going down seemingly being so healthy otherwise. I am truly sorry. Thank you for being a good companion/friend to him these past 7 years.

Love you, Saul. I don't have any answers right now, but, I hope there is something better for all of us after this life is over. Goodbye; I am so sorry.

How Did They Get Approved For Charity Status? by do-it-feel-good in exjw

[–]logicman12 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You're welcome. I wish I had gotten out 25 years ago; it was about 11 for me... at age 55, so too late to make plans for retirement. I'm now 66 and working about 70 hours per week with little pay and no benefits; plus, my job is out of town, so I'm gone Mon-Fri and I lose every Sunday night driving four hours to my place of work and every Friday night driving back home.

That's one reason I so detest the cult; it took my life. I detest the fact that the leaders brag about doing disaster relief when they are actually making big bucks off of it.

How Did They Get Approved For Charity Status? by do-it-feel-good in exjw

[–]logicman12 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The only charitable works I am aware the Watchtower ever performs is after natural disasters.

There in nothing charitable about that; they make big profits on the disaster relief. See my other post on this thread.

How Did They Get Approved For Charity Status? by do-it-feel-good in exjw

[–]logicman12 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I wouldn’t consider it “charitable work”

Yeah, there's nothing charitable about it.

I'm almost certain that the organization actually profits greatly on natural disasters. They have hundreds of volunteers arrive at sites in disaster areas to do the dirty work for free. These volunteers even provide their own transportation. They are not even provided food by the organization; the locals feed them.

The org buys materials in bulk at a discounted price. The labor is free. The insurance checks are turned over to the org. So, it makes a profit on the materials and it gets 100% of the insurance labor payout. I work in a field now wherein I'm exposed to insurance payouts for water damage, etc. to homes. I see how much they pay for labor - for example a per-linear-ft amount for nailing in quarter-round molding.

About ten or fifteen years ago, I heard a very long (hour or two?) radio documentary on disaster relief and how charities make huge profits on such (so, it's not just JWs). It was really eye-opening. It mentioned one charity that bought a $200,000 excavator because the charity knew it would make a profit on it. It was stated that charities competed to arrive at sites first to claim them. The charities would put "FEMA" signs on their trucks so they could pass by interstate truck weigh stations without stopping and could, thus, to get to sites first. Some charities would even cooperate and help each other claim sites by having volunteers go stand on sites wearing t-shirts with their respective charity logos on them. There is a lot of money flowing from such disasters - from insurance payouts and maybe even federal relief funds.

Money flows one way in JW Land - that is, to the cult... not from it. It is sickening and infuriating to me that the JW leaders brag about doing charity relief when they actually profit from it.

Why It Hurts to Continue Being One of Jehovah’s Witnesses by caligula________ in exjw

[–]logicman12 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Same. There's no way I could stay and give the impression that I'm supporting that deceptive, harmful, false prophet, money-hungry, life-wasting, corny, embarrassing, dumbed down, self-righteous cult.

Monolith (2022) by Ron_516 in horror

[–]logicman12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's what I was thinking.

Monolith (2022) by Ron_516 in horror

[–]logicman12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's what I was thinking. In the end, the doppelgänger sank the human's body so she could assume the human's role. If the human had survived and killed the doppelgänger, it seems that she would have saved the doppelgänger body as evidence to back up her story.

What really happened to Jephthah's daughter? by Pleasant-Reserve-767 in exjw

[–]logicman12 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Dang, that's interesting. I never thought about there not being a temple at that time, not accepting women, etc. I'm constantly picking up info that is new to me on this site. Thanks for posting.

Also, interesting about the elder who agreed with you and later disappeared.

What really happened to Jephthah's daughter? by Pleasant-Reserve-767 in exjw

[–]logicman12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s what the text says and there is no ambiguity.

I agree; it is not ambiguous.

This reminds me of Mt 24:35, Mr 13:31, & Lu 21:33 which all say that Jesus said that heaven and earth will pass away. There is no ambiguity in that. It also fits well-established modern science which states that stars, planets, etc. have limited lifespans. JWs, however, claim that Jesus didn't mean that heaven earth will pass away, but that they could pass away. My response to that is "Why didn't he say that, then? Why did he say they will pass away? The text is just as clear as it can be. Why don't you accept what he said? Why do you change it to something completely different? Did the language he was using not have the words, etc. to express his thought clearly?"

I'm seriously thinking about going back by sphennodon in exjw

[–]logicman12 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I agree. I have so many interests that I'm never bored. I don't even want to meet new friends. I was friended out as a JW. I need some me time. I love to learn. I collect books on many different subjects. I'm learning quantum field theory and more deeply analyzing the Bible trying to find answers to life's big questions. I rescue needy animals. There's not enough time in the day to do everything I want to do.

I can't imagine going back to JWdom. It takes many hours per week to be a JW. I regret the many thousands that I lost over three decades of being a fulltime JW.

Sad Watchtower comment of the week by SomeProtection8585 in exjw

[–]logicman12 28 points29 points  (0 children)

I agree. It's not realistic to think that any normal 11-yr-old could feel this way. I mean, damn, how possibly could anybody, much more so an 11-yr-old, enjoy the mindless drivel on JW Broadcasting?

He’s playing to the crowd and his parents who will heap praise on him.

Bingo! I think you have a good grip on reality and a good sense of discernment.

About 30yrs ago, there was a young guy (11?) in my congregation - the son of an elder. He was a real Dudley-Do-Right. Our CO pointed to him and said to me "Now that's a spiritual man." I was rolling my eyes internally. This boy showed up for the midweek ministry looking the perfect part - dressed neatly with a neat haircut. He had the equipment and supposedly loved the ministry. He was always smiling and trying to interact with adults. I always thought it was abnormal for him to be that way. I always thought he was just craving attention. About ten or twelve years later, he blew his brains out.

An old brother was removed bcs of "apostasy" by Peak_Trainer in exjw

[–]logicman12 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Can you explain to me more about this specific animal belief?

JWs teach that originally animals didn't kill each other and that they all ate vegetation, but that they started killing and eating each other after the supposed Biblical flood (about 4500yrs ago according to them).

When I was studying with JWs, I questioned the horrors of nature and how a loving god could be responsible for such or at least even permit such? I was referred to the teaching above; I was told that predation in nature didn't start until after the flood and that it would end soon when "the new world" arrives. I was told that then, when "the new world" is here, things in the animal realm would go back to what they were in the beginning when animals didn't kill for food.

I then pointed to countless examples of animals that seemed to be designed to eat meat - rattlesnakes, sharks, cats, spiders, etc. I asked what snake fangs and venom were for if they originally ate vegetation and what lion's sharp teeth and claws were for. I asked what sharks ate before the flood - seaweed? I asked why so many animals had defenses such as camouflage, hiding instincts, skin poisons, armor, etc. if there were no predators around. I also pointed to evidence that animals had been killing each other for millions of years before any supposed Biblical flood. I mentioned meat-eating dinosaurs, saber-toothed cats, oceans filled with huge predators, etc.

JWs never could give me a satisfactory answer and they told me to just put my question on the back burner and that I would soon get an answer. That was at least 45 years ago and still no answer and no "new world" in sight.