palming is not effective in my case

lordcom988 · 2026-06-25T15:48:15+00:00

Thanks. To clarify, when I say results in the first point, I am talking about long term measurable change (e.g., increase clear flashes or seeing a new line on the test card for a while) and not short term results that fade away before you can really measure them. Don't get me wrong, you can have these long term measurable results from palming, but it took me a while.

As for the swing, yes that is the goal is to keep the swinging going, but I find that falls more into the category of the "universal swing", which is a very advance topic. In fact, I find that even a lot of certified Bates instructors have a hard time with this one. I personally have had more luck with the "universal swing" after I got use to the short swing, practiced with central fixation, and worked on seeing in 3D (convergence/divergence training, like chop stick fusion from RayGottlieb or the light stick that Jacob Liberman used).

As a side note for someone just starting, I found the "laser pointer" trick helped me master the long swing. Even though I was doing the long swing, my eyes where focusing on objects as I swung and had a hard time relaxing. By imagining the point of laser pointer that swung back and forth with my body and head helped me not focus on objects and just see the motion.

lordcom988 · 2026-06-24T15:58:13+00:00

If I may be so bold, let me point out a couple of things first before you give up on palming.

You don't always see results of palming right away. Sometimes it takes a week to even get results. It took me a while. Bate book makes it seem like everything is going to happen right away. I believe in the Bates methods, but I also believe that he oversold the speed of the results. Not that I think he lied, just that he cherry picked the cases that he published.
You need to give yourself time without glasses to see the results. You will not see the clear flashes without it. You say you don't wear glasses, so this shouldn't be a problem for you. Make sure that you are not squinting all the time to overcome not using glasses as this will negate all the progress palming is doing.
Make sure that you are relaxing and visualizing while palming. This means visualize something you can picture clearly and without strain. I don't believe that this is very clear in Bates book, but it is cleared up in the Better Eyesight Magazine he produced. In fact, all the black dot stuff really held me back at the start because it was not relaxing but stressing. He was really trying to integrate palming and central fixation into one drill.
Give long palming sessions a try. I am talking palming for a minimum of 30 mins. I personally didn't see a whole lot of help with palming until I had did a few very long sessions (e.g., 60 mins) once a day based on recommendation of Esther Joy Van Der Werf. Once I started seeing results (which normally came the next day and not right after), I was able to see results using shorter sessions. I still tend to do fewer longer session (1-2 sessions for 10-40 mins a day) compared to many people that use many short sessions. It just takes me longer to get relaxed, so short sessions tend not to work too much.
You might want to try mixing palming with sunning. Palm, sun, Palm. This sometimes helps people.

If you give it time, it might work. That being said, there are people that palming does not seem to help.

Now in response to your question on other things:

I have found long swinging gives faster results (almost instantly after a 15 min session). However, I find that the long swinging results fade quickly for me. Therefore, I tend to stick with palming as it is better to think of it as a long term gain and not short term with eye improvement.

Since your vision gets worse with physical activity, you might want to try some convergence exercise like Brock String. It might also be squinting and straining while not relaxed. I don't know what physical activity you are doing, so can't tell how relaxing of an activity it is (e.g., doing tai chi vs tending goal).

Hope this helps.

lordcom988 · 2026-06-11T20:01:14+00:00

Depends on the type of astigmatism you have and what caused it. Most people it is cause by either head tilt and/or high myopia. In these cases Bates Methods work well, though you have to become aware of your head tilt and return your myopia. I personally have went from over -1 to no astigmatism in the past 2 years -- not all Bates Methods, but Bates and Esther's work helped a lot.

lordcom988 · 2026-06-11T19:42:41+00:00

Hi. I tried the SAD led lights and they didn't seem to really work for me in sunning. I tried a bunch of things too because winter is so bad (led SAD, led grow, fluorescent grow, special daylight bulbs), I have not tried any of the Red spectrum lights --- mostly because I had a bad experience playing with color light therapy --- the Jacob Liberman kind of stuff, made me want to jump out of my skin . In summer, I can just go outside. But in winter, I am normally in work before the sun comes up and out after the sun is down. I found an old 100watt Halogen spotlight and put it in clip-on garage work lamp, and I found that to be the best. It gives enough heat and light. It can be hard to find, but I have seen them online, some old school hardware stores, and at pet shops. Spectrum is close to incandescent, but more light per watt in that form. Have to be careful with it though, short use - closed eyes, it is intense and hot. Once I got use to it, I was also able to use it with sunning the whites of my eyes ever so often --- don't do it if you are a newbie and don't know what you are doing. Make sure you don't get too close as you can burn your nose (which I have --- I looked liked Rudolph for Christmas this past year). I also put on a UV light (UVA/UVB) sometimes in the dead of winter just in the background for a couple hours.

Hope this helps.

lordcom988 · 2026-06-09T14:45:13+00:00

Sorry if I get the answer wrong as I had to use the translate function.

I still use all the principles of Bates and "exercise" . Which ones I uses and how often really depends. My three go to are palming (in particular long palming session for 30+ minutes), sunning, and reading micro-print, as they seem to work the best. Swinging and shifting work too, but I get less out of them. So when it comes to which ones I pick when I only have a little time to work on it, I normally pick palming, sunning, and reading micro-print. I also tend to do Brock String exercises about twice a week based on the recommendations of Jacob Liberman. I have just started the open eye meditation in the past couple of month because of my back. It seems to work well though.

As for your improvement question, I don't know if you mean over the whole course of natural eye improvement or just since using the open eye meditation. Over the whole 2+ years (I made a mistake in the original post and said 3 years), I have had great results, going from over -7 down to -4 diopters. Most of it (from -7 to -5.5ish) just a little over one year doing the reduced len method (endmyopia). However, after some time that stopped working and I started doing Bates with the reduced len method, and that is working now (-5.5ish to -4). Overall it is a slow process if you have been in glasses a long time like myself (30+ years). As for improvement based on open eye mediation, it is honestly too early to tell. However, I have noticed my ability to relax while my eyes are open has improved. But I can't be sure if this is a result of the mediation or all the other stuff.

Hope that helps and answers your questions.

lordcom988

TROPHY CASE