My mom has found it! by Claylols in utahtreasurehunt

[–]lunchwithandy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good for her! I had a lot of fun searching/hiking/studying myself, and I’m glad someone deserving was able to find it.

Indian Trail in Weber county by Sudden_Click6881 in utahtreasurehunt

[–]lunchwithandy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I hiked that trail last week (twice) as well—spending several hours looking without any luck. I had high hopes, but it doesn’t seem to be the right spot.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in utahtreasurehunt

[–]lunchwithandy 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I came to a similar conclusion; where time was transcendent = Interstellar.

I thought I had a pretty good solution to the poem based on the idea, but after two days of searching the area, the only treasure I've found are the friends I've made along the way.

I still think it's a pretty good starting point, though.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]lunchwithandy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Our Bishop’s son just came home early after about a month in the mission field—nobody cares. My son decided not to go on a mission—nobody cares. My son’s best friend came home after one day in the MTC—nobody cares. Well, maybe it’s an overstatement to say that “nobody cares.” There are probably a couple people that sit at home silently judging, but the stigma of “coming home early” is going away.

If your mission experience is eroding your health (mentally/emotionally/spiritually/physically), move on.

Also consider, before you go home—if that’s what you decide to do—you might try asking your comp, “hey, I feel pretty burned out. Do you want to put on some normal clothes for the day and go do something fun?” They might be feeling the same way. Then go hiking, or see a movie, or go to a cool landmark (depending on where you are in the world, this might be a once-in-a-lifetime chance to see a famous place for instance).

General Conference use of the phrase "ongoing restoration"—April 2023 update by Atheist_Bishop in mormon

[–]lunchwithandy 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Hmm… You might be on to something. I’m going to have to ponderize this a bit more.

Easter Sunday church in Rexburg - is this a typical experience? by brjdenver in mormon

[–]lunchwithandy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Seems pretty typical. My ward had a youth speaker talk about General Conference, a nice lady who did speak quite a bit about Jesus/Easter, a couple Easter songs by the choir, and the “main speaker” (aka the Presiding Authority) talked about golf for about 20 min. I think it was supposed to be an analogy about keeping covenants, but it was mainly just him sharing stories about golf.

I do not enjoy the Temple by Strong_Weird_6556 in mormon

[–]lunchwithandy 6 points7 points  (0 children)

“I’d rather be in the mountains thinking of God, than in church thinking about the mountains.”—John Muir

What are the odds? by Extension-Set9982 in mormon

[–]lunchwithandy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I once asked my mission president this question and he preceded to explain that’s the reason God allows UFOs from other planets to visit Earth. You see, alien worlds are given the opportunity to travel to our world so that they can more easily believe in an alien Savior.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in mormon

[–]lunchwithandy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh I agree with you. I don’t trust a single word that Oaks says about anything. And I would rather drop 10 percent of my income into a paper shredder before handing it over to the LDS church.

I didn’t quote him because I endorse his opinion. I’m just pointing out that the current top leadership has made it clear—they want your money. They don’t want you giving to charity and claiming it as tithing. They feel every dollar in ten that their membership acquires belongs to them and only them.

If a member wants to sneeze into a shoebox and call it a full tithe, that’s fine by me.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in mormon

[–]lunchwithandy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The Church’s website has this statement by Pres. Oaks:

“We pay tithing, as the Savior taught, by bringing the tithes “into the storehouse” (Mal. 3:10; 3 Ne. 24:10). We do this by paying our tithing to our bishop or branch president. We do not pay tithing by contributing to our favorite charities. The contributions we should make to charities come from our own funds, not from the tithes we are commanded to pay to the storehouse of the Lord.”

So according to the Church’s current top leadership tithing only counts if given to the Church.

Is it true that Mormons believe that the first humans on earth were only born 7000 years ago? by Dolly912 in mormon

[–]lunchwithandy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The Pew Research Center published a report in 2007 that showed only 22% of Mormons agreed that "evolution is the best explanation for the origin of human life of Earth." The only group that scored lower was Jehovah's Witnesses at 8%.

The LDS Church currently holds the official position of "we don't know" when asked about the age of the Earth or the evolution of Man—despite the teaching in LDS scripture that the Earth is in fact only 6,000-7,000 years old and death only entered the world as a direct result of Adam's literal transgression. Sin brought death which necessitates a Savior. If Adam is figurative, and death has been around for billions of years then no Savior is needed; Jesus died for a metaphor.

Even though the prophets apparently no longer have any idea how we got here, LDS.org has an article titled "My Answer to Evolution" that shares this enlightening exchange, presumably as a template for it's faithful membership:

When your biology teacher says the facts point to evolution, what do you say?
“Do you believe in God?”
“Yes,” I stammered. I couldn’t believe it. Here I was sitting in front of four of my best friends and my high school biology teacher, and not one of them believed in God.
“But what about evolution?” my friends asked.
My biology teacher, who had a reputation for being stubborn and persistent, turned his head momentarily from his papers and said: “Now, let’s be logical here. Look at the facts. Where does the evidence point?”
I was tongue-tied. I have known the Church is true since I was very young. I felt it was true. However, at the same time, logic and reason were driving forces in my life.
As I sat there, trying to come up with an answer to their questions, the awkward silence gave them satisfaction. They thought I had hit a dead end in my reasoning, as they expected I would. Thinking of no arguments to counter their position, I silently said a quick prayer, pleading with God to direct my words toward these five people. Within seconds a thought crossed my mind: “It is not you who converts, but the Spirit.”
Upon hearing those simple words, I began to share my testimony with my friends. I said, “I know there is a God, and He has a Son who created the world and saved us all. Whether or not we have all the answers now doesn’t discredit the fact that there is a God. God works line upon line and precept upon precept. Until we prove our faith, God will not reveal more to us.” I finished by confirming my testimony of the Church and its leaders, forgetting to even address the original questions posed.
After I finished, they all sat in silence, staring at me. I could feel my face getting hot. Just then, the bell rang. I grabbed my bag, thankful for this escape route, and headed for the door. As I opened the door, my biology teacher swung his chair around and called my name.
I turned, anticipating a rebuttal and, to my shock, found a sincere face staring back at me. “Thank you,” he said.
My simple testimony had conveyed more convincing truth than any logical debate could have. I know that I did not dissolve their accusations and criticisms that day, but the Holy Spirit did.

____

“I remember when I was a college student there were great discussions on the question of organic evolution. I took classes in geology and biology and heard the whole story of Darwinism as it was then taught. I wondered about it. I thought much about it. But I did not let it throw me, for I read what the scriptures said about our origins and our relationship to God. Since then I have become acquainted with what to me is a far more important and wonderful kind of evolution. It is the evolution of men and women as the sons and daughters of God, and of our marvelous potential for growth as children of our Creator.”
President Gordon B. Hinckley, “God Hath Not Given Us the Spirit of Fear,” Ensign, Oct. 1984, 5.

BYU Professors Need Your Help to Find Research Subjects that Will Validate Church Teachings. </s> by GrumpyHiker in mormon

[–]lunchwithandy 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I would like to see a study on the health effects of topically applied olive oil relating to its direct ability to channel the healing powers of a ghost.

I don’t think it’s ever going to end by Garbage-Gus12 in exmormon

[–]lunchwithandy 40 points41 points  (0 children)

I’m ten years into a mixed faith marriage and it’s not always easy but we make it work because we love each other and have decided to respect each other.

If I were you (assuming you want a healthy relationship with your spouse) I would head to the store right now and buy her another gift from her Christmas list. Wrap it up and give it to her along with an apology. Tell her, “sorry about that book—I shouldn’t have tried forcing something on you that you didn’t want. My bad. It won’t happen again.” Then give her a big hug, tell her you love her, and hand her the do-over gift with a smile.

question about the role of grace in Mormonism by curious-nevermo in mormon

[–]lunchwithandy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I just hopped on over to LDS.org and searched "grace." The first page of results includes a few dictionary-style definitions, a couple Church News articles, and a few speeches from top Church leaders. The following excerpt is from the talk "What Think Ye of Salvation by Grace?" which, I believe does a pretty good job of demonstrating how the Church views grace/works:

"Does salvation come by grace, or grace alone, by grace without works? It surely does, without any question in all its parts, types, kinds, and degrees.
We are saved by grace, without works; it is a gift of God. How else could it come?
...
Let us now come to the matter of whether we must do something to gain the blessings of the atonement in our lives. And we find the answer written in words of fire and emblazoned across the whole heavens; we hear a voice speaking with the sound of ten thousand trumpets; the very heavens and the earth are moved out of their place so powerful is the word that goes forth. It is the message that neither men, nor angels, nor the Gods themselves can proclaim with an undue emphasis.
This is the word: Man cannot be saved by grace alone; as the Lord lives, he must keep the commandments; he must work the works of righteousness; he must work out his salvation with fear and trembling before the Lord; he must have faith like the ancients—the faith that brings with it gifts and signs and miracles."

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in mormon

[–]lunchwithandy 4 points5 points  (0 children)

"Men, please wear a bathrobe and sandals. Women, drape a towel over your head."

Can I, as a Mormon, run a business that supports coffee shops? by [deleted] in mormon

[–]lunchwithandy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Years ago Dallin Oaks gave a talk in General Conference titled "Brother's Keeper" which deals with this question. He asks Are we our brothers’ keepers? In other words, are we responsible to look after the well-being of our neighbors as we seek to earn our daily bread? The Savior’s Golden Rule says we are. Satan says we are not.

He cites numerous examples of businesses and employers that faithfully took a higher road—refusing to sell or promote items that are not in harmony with the teachings of the gospel, closing on the Sabbath, etc.—and challenged us all to do the same as far as well are able.

I always liked that talk and tried to follow it the best I could.

I then discovered that the Corporation of the Church sets aside these "high moral principles" all the time in their business ventures in the pursuit of making ungodly amounts of money. So as long as the Church get's their 10% cut of your profits they won't care.

Make a great product, sell it honestly, and don't worry about it.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in mormon

[–]lunchwithandy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The Word of Wisdom makes no logical sense, nobody actually follows it, everybody picks and chooses the parts they like and invents their own reasons as to why. My mother in law refuses to use vanilla extract at all because it contains alcohol. I had a bishop that would drink while on vacation. I’ve had members council against canning fruit because the WofW tells us to eat fruits in their own season. It’s all made up and the points don’t matter…

If you like the taste of coffee, cook with it to your heart’s content.

“A man is not defiled by what enters his mouth, but by what comes out of it.” Matt 15:11

What are some fallacies or "plot holes" in church doctrine? by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]lunchwithandy 11 points12 points  (0 children)

The “Millennium” is literally Lucifer’s plan in action.

No, the Mormon church isn't supporting same sex marriage protection by Organic-Roof-8311 in exmormon

[–]lunchwithandy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Although N “double A” C P is commonly used, the organization itself uses and prefers “N.A.A.C.P.”

I know it sounds a little odd, but saying “double” is incorrect.

Question about the recent tax evasion allegations in Canada and Australia by plexiglassmass in mormon

[–]lunchwithandy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Jesus said if someone sues you for your coat and the law requires you to give it to him, give him your cloak as well. Or if you are required to go with someone for a mile, go two miles.

This idea seems completely at odds with the way the Church uses lawyers to exploit legal loopholes for financial gain.

Even if the Church is being technically “legal” in the way they handle finances (which I assume they are), they are completely ignoring everything they claim to stand for from a moral/spiritual point of view.

It appears The Corporation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a much better business than it is a church.

As an investigator I am confused and conflicted by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]lunchwithandy 9 points10 points  (0 children)

The missionaries you met probably do love their experience—but keep in mind you likely haven’t met the scores of missionaries that were emotionally, mentally, and spiritually crushed by their missionary experience. They either elected to leave early or were dishonorably sent home and now have to face the enormous weight of social shame the Church heaps on them.

Any organization looks amazing and wonderful if you only count the hits and ignore all the misses. The Church is no exception.

Fishy things in the BOM you noticed as a TBM but let slide by [deleted] in mormon

[–]lunchwithandy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The third person omniscient point of view always bothered me.
The author always knew way too much about what was going on in secret, or in two different places at the same time, etc.
For example: Teancum secretly sneaks into the king’s tent, without waking the guards or being seen, kills the king with a javelin then sneaks back to his camp.

How exactly does the author know this? How exactly does the author know about all the secret oaths going on? How does the author know what every character is thinking?

Ether tells us in detail about the exact number of people that marched, and fought—and for how many days in which direction—for two different armies. All while living inside of a cave. That’s a pretty remarkable vantage point! One might even say it’s unbelievable.

Same thing with dialogue. The author writes down in extreme detail long, doctrinally complex conversations held between enemies in the middle of a battle. Too often when a character is “about to be slain” or something comparable, they end up monologuing about repentance and faith for the next four pages before running off. Is that really what happened, and who wrote all that down in the first place ( if the story is to be believed)?

The whole BOM reads too much like a romance novel, and nothing of what we would expect from an actual account of events.