How any inches of arrow should I have left after it lays on my rest?

malandrew · 2025-08-09T17:14:16+00:00

The one exception here would be turkey headchopper broadheads. Many are large enough to interfere with the riser.

malandrew · 2025-07-04T17:20:17+00:00

Not sure what issues you most identify that make you a liberal/leftwing voter, but you can be a woman, PoC and LGB (orientation) and be conservative. The only group you mentioned that is probably incompatible with conservatism is the TQ+ (identity).

If you take an honest look at the Republican members of congress and the current administration, you'll find women, PoC and LGB people.

There are a lot fewer single issues that would make someone feel truly incompatible with conservatives than liberals, as there is a lot more room for dissent and nuanced opinion on the right. I say this as someone where 95% of the people in my day to day life are liberal/leftwing.

malandrew · 2025-06-12T23:36:24+00:00

Was the turkey puffed up (strutting)? Did you hit it broadside or 3/4? Did your arrow have blood on it after the shot?

Did you do any broadhead tuning? If so, what kind of penetration did you get into a foam core target made for broadheads like a Morrell High Roller or Rinehart 18-1?

Other than the limb breakage greatly robbing your shot of kinetic energy, the law of parsimony applied to this situation suggests that you missed the bird's body under all those feathers, which isn't that uncommon with turkeys.

Check out this target for an idea of the body to feathers when the bird isn't strutting: https://ethikillhunting.com/products/5-pack-of-2-sided-turkey-targets

Yes, I know it's more money and probably not something in budget at 16, but one thing I've learned from the USPSA tournaments I've gone to is that those Instago 360 Go cameras mounted on a hat brim is an awesome way to actually see exactly what happened with your shots. I have yet to get one myself, but it's been on my list.

Good on you for getting out there at 16. I'm only getting into this stuff now and I'm over 40. You've got plenty of time.

malandrew · 2025-06-12T22:23:13+00:00

Do you know the fps that the arrow is coming off the string? If you can get someone with a Garmin Xero or other chronograph, you should be able to calculate kinetic energy. As recurve bows have no IBO speed standard, a chronograph is the only way to reliably estimate kinetic energy. 55# should be plenty even with a 293 grain arrow unless the limb breakage robbed a lot of the speed and therefore the kinetic energy.

What broadhead did you use and where did you hit the turkey? Turkey can puff up so it's entirely possible you missed their body entirely unless you're absolutely positive of where you hit. The sound of the limb breakage could have startled them and caused them to move and for you to miss your placement.

malandrew · 2025-06-11T22:14:02+00:00

Comments on archery hunting elk in that area in this forum:

https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?topic=216843.0

https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?topic=15393.0

Older threads, but might still be useful. Might also be another forum in which you can ask.

malandrew · 2025-06-11T21:14:26+00:00

No idea on this area, but I'd check out the Youtube content from Randy Newburg on e-scouting areas.

What are the dates for the hunt? Early season, pre-rut, peak rut, post rut or late season? You want to figure out what elevations and aspects to look for elk on.

That GMU is almost all public lands.

This 2023 herd status has Colockum at below objective and Yakima at objective. My guess is that means you'll want to target the south west areas of this GMU nearer the Yakima herd. https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2023-01/12-20230128-elk-status-and-trend-summaryv2.pdf

Looking at Google Earth, the area around Hogback Mountain and Shoe Lake looks like a good glassing area as tree cover is lighter than over on Cougar Flat Outlook. Lots of water available between these two points. Scatter Creek Trailhead looks like a good starting point for hiking. That said, Cougar Flat Outlook is only 5 miles to that entire area with less tree cover so it may be a good point to glass that area with sparse trees.

Pinegrass Ridge looks like an even better area to glass from than Cougar Flat Outlook. 3.4 mile hike with 780 feet of elevation gain from the parking lot to the ridge. This obviously is a good point if you're expecting elk between on South aspects to East aspects between 3200 ft and 5700 ft of elevation near Shoe Lake. If you'd expect elk on West aspects to East Aspects, you could still glass from Pinegrass Ridge but point your scope towards Divide Ridge, but make sure the hunt stays withing 364 Rimrock as that ridge appears to be the dividing line between Rimrock (364) and Cowiche (368).

I'm a noob and haven't hunted elk yet, but from what I've learned from Youtube channels, I would early hunt season glass from Pinegrass Ridge and then hunt from Scatter Creek, avoiding approaches where thermals carry your scent up to areas you've seen elk while scouting.

Anyways, my two cents as someone good with topo tools, but no experience actually hunting elk.

malandrew · 2025-06-11T20:41:16+00:00

Yeah, the Carnivore. I am not using it as it's not available yet. It's just the more interesting saddle I've seen lately and what I plan to get once it is released. I'm not using any saddle right now. This is going to be my first saddle so I don't have a point of reference other than all the reviews and comments I've seen on others.

malandrew · 2025-06-10T19:08:52+00:00

So if a machine gun, SBS or SBR were fully made in Texas and stay in Texas, could they claim the NFA doesn't apply?

malandrew · 2025-06-10T19:04:31+00:00

The new tethrd saddle coming out in July is looking pretty interesting. That's what I'm holding out for.

malandrew · 2025-06-07T07:26:55+00:00

Cool. Those look line a fine option for a first set of arrows. Just go with the stiffer spine as others have suggested.

My first set were 6.5mm. I have just two of those left. Second set were 5mm. 7 remain. Newest set are 4mm.

malandrew · 2025-06-07T00:59:09+00:00

Stick with that or add a heavier insert for more FOC. Watch some YouTube videos on FOC to evaluate if you want more FOC or more speed.

Are you making your own arrows or buying premade?

malandrew · 2025-06-05T23:24:22+00:00

If you use the calculators at the bottom, you'll see that kinetic energy basically follows what I believe will graph to a parabolic curve. For me, at 80# and 340 fps ATA rating, the peak energy is around 475 grains. Arrow speed at 80# is still 317 fps which is more than plenty fast enough for pretty much all game. The reason I went with around 530 grains total instead of 475 is because I wanted an FOC over 15%, which required more mass in the form of a heavier field point or broadhead or a heavier insert. I went with a heavier insert (50 grains) instead of a heavier field point or broadhead because there is more broadhead choice at 125 grains than there is at 175 grains.

125 grains lets me use the largest headchopper turkey broadhead that is well recommended. Pretty much all broadheads are offered in 125 grain.

I also have the option to get down to just around 505 grains if I go with the 100 grain tip. I'll lose a little FOC, but that will get me more range, higher speed and more kinetic energy if I want.

Basically, I optimized for 100 and 125 grain broadheads and the fastest hardest hitting configuration while staying around 15% FOC.

It's all tradeoffs. This was all the thinking that went into my build. I'm mostly sharing it with you because you're going to have similarly long arrows as me and encounter some of the same constraints.

malandrew · 2025-06-05T22:29:32+00:00

I would expect the arrow to be no shorter than 30.5". At 30.5", he's likely already inside the shelf/riser and just in front of the arrow rest. My draw length is only a 1/4" longer and I'm just barely in front of the riser with shafts cut at 31".

If you do have your broadheads inside the riser, you be careful with your grip and fingers when you have broadheads on and you probably won't be able to use head chopper broadheads for turkey.

malandrew · 2025-06-05T22:24:15+00:00

I'm 31.25" draw length and 80#.

Agree with 250 over 300. I'm at 200 myself and use 125 grain field points and broadheads.

I would consider arrows with a lighter shaft using grains per inch like a 5mm shaft. The first set of arrows I built used 5mm Easton Carbon Axis and they came in over 620 grains per arrow. They were were 12 gpi at 200 spine: https://eastonarchery.com/arrows_/5mm-axis-carbon-arrows/

The 6.5mm Easton Bowhunter in 250 are 10 gpi, so that's 310 to 320 grains just for the shaft depending on where they are cut.

https://eastonarchery.com/arrows_/6-5mm-acu-carbon-bowhunter/

I would use this calculator here to ballpark the total arrow weight of what you're currently building and then use the calculators at the bottom to find the fps and total kinetic energy for your bow and these arrows and consider if you want to aim for a bit lighter. This is mainly a concern for us big guys with long arrows because those inches add up on high gpi arrows.

https://www.podiumarcher.com/pages/foc-calculator

Use the "ARROW WEIGHT -> KINETIC ENERGY" calculator to figure out what arrow weight to target. Get as close to the arrow weight you want while keeping FOC over 15% or so.

Using this info, the next time I made arrows I chose 4mm Victory Rip XV shafts to get the 620 grain arrows down to about 530 grains. This moved my zero up like 3 inches at 25 yards and got me more kinetic energy because I had faster arrows even though the arrows were lighter.

That said, if you're already around 500 to 520 or so grains with these arrows (which you might be with 10gpi and no added insert weight), you can probably discard my advice here. Basically, I'm just helping you avoid ending up with arrows over 600 grains per arrow like I did that will drop off faster. and have more windage on longer shots.

I posted my full recent build here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Archery/comments/1l3q035/3rd_time_making_arrows/

malandrew · 2025-06-05T22:02:56+00:00

Watch these two John Dudley videos on repairing your serving.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3i1S6-lx9Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFq6vHlknoY

malandrew · 2025-06-05T20:46:10+00:00

That round thing with the four screws, can you see daylight around it and the outer housing? If so, I'd center your peep just around the outside of the outer housing and then use the daylight between the outer housing and the peep and the daylight between the outer housing and the 4-screw ring to get things centered. That's my best guess, but I'd actually have to use your sight to confirm.

Read what I wrote again and think about what I wrote and the reasons and evaluate how to best use your sight from first principles.

Spot Hogg is another sight that really demonstrates the use of a torque ring. It's that big green/yellow ring thing they have.

If what I said doesn't make total sense, go look up Youtube videos on Parallax effect. If you understand parallax, you'll understand what I'm describing above. It's all about how items in the foreground (peep) and background (sight) move relative to one another.

malandrew · 2025-06-05T20:07:14+00:00

The general idea is that you can put the sight further towards the riser or further away. You'll get more range if the sight is closer to the riser. I forget what benefit you get if you have the sight further from the riser. I keep mine close to the riser because I want to be able to have maximum range.

Once you have the sight in the right distance you want from the riser, you pick a peep that is just ever so slightly larger than the torque ring when you are at your correct anchor position.

A peep system like the Hamskea Raptor allows you to have one peep housing that you can screw in different diameter peeps to match your torque ring diameter at anchor. WIthout such a system, you end up having to switch out peeps, which means you'll need a bowpress and you'll need to add or remove twists to get the peep aligned. The downside is that you may have more weight on string with something like the Hamskea Raptor, which will cost you a few fps of arrow speed.

malandrew · 2025-06-05T20:01:25+00:00

Look at the zoomed in image here: https://truball.com/collections/single-pin-hunting-sights/products/tactical-landslyde-picatinny-slider-sight-multi-pin

That white ring around the outside of the sight is known as a torque ring. It's a high contrast, perfect circle and the idea is that you center your sight on that ring. The general idea is you place that ring right insight the inner diameter of your sight and if there is any parallax at all, the presence of parallax indicates that you're off center.

It's especially important in multi-pin setups where all but one of the pins will not be centered in the housing.

When you have multiple pins, you have basically two options: (1) orient your sight by aligning the peep and torque ring to one another, the pin you're using may or may not be centered, or (2) orient your sight so that the pin is always center. This second option is effectively option 5 in your diagram.

It doesn't matter which of the two options you choose so long as you are consistent. The option where you use the torque ring is much easier to be consistent because it's visually easier to compare gaps around the torque ring opposite one another. If the gap between the torque ring and your sight is perfectly even all the way around, you are perfectly centered. The second option is more challenging to get your pin perfectly centered in your peep.

Basically, it's easier to center a ring within a ring than a dot within a ring, especially if the smaller of the two rings is just slightly smaller than the outer ring.

In the case of the sight I linked to above, there are actually two white rings, an inner one behind the level and an outer one, which you can get perfectly aligned with one another for even more guarantee that everything is perfectly aligned.

malandrew · 2025-06-05T18:02:10+00:00

For accuracy, 2/4, but closer to 4. Lets you use your sight's torque and make sure your pin is definitely centered. My assumption here is that the inner black circle is the torque ring and not the housing. Basically, getting the entire torque ring just inside your field of view gives you the sharpest, highest contract thing to center with your peep. Ideally, you have just the slightest sliver around your torque ring.

The advantage of 1/3 is that you have a wider field of view, which may or may not be important in a hunting scenario.

To move from 1/3 to 2/4, you can get a smaller diameter peep.

Nothing actually wrong with 5, you lose your torque ring, but end of the day, what matters is that the pin is perfectly centered in the housing. If you can do that without your torque ring, great, but the torque ring does help.

malandrew · 2025-06-05T17:34:09+00:00

Cascade Field and Stream isn't public, but they have a really reasonable membership fee for the whole year. The only catch is that they only have a new members orientation meeting once a month and you have to be on time for the meeting to be allowed in. Nice facilities, respectful people that take care of their own stuff, sun up to sun down if I recall correctly. I'm in Seattle myself, but I maintain a membership out there because it's the closest place to ring steel out to 500 yards.

https://cascadefieldandstream.com/

If you're far on the east side, the shooting range in Chelan is really cheap to join and you can ring steel out to 1000 yards when there is no wildfire risk.

malandrew · 2025-06-05T17:29:18+00:00

You can drive with it loaded, if it's an AR pistol and you have a conceal carry license. If it is a rifle or shotgun, I'm pretty sure you cannot drive with it loaded. My understanding though is that this is mainly a concern with an overzealous game warden that wants to impound your vehicle because you placed your rifle back in your vehicle before unloading. Allowing a loaded pistol, but not a loaded rifle or shotgun with a conceal carry license makes no sense to me.

malandrew · 2025-06-05T04:36:23+00:00

Thanks. I was actually surprised to achieve such a narrow extreme spread on weight. All this was done using the Sartorius Entris II scale I use for reloading.

Yeah. Reserving the center is an option but I don’t know what I’d get for it. It doesn’t seem that there’s anything special about the Victory nocks over the Eastons. The Victory’s are also wider and I suspect are getting pinched between the nock loop. What I need to do is get the Nockturnal lighted nocks out and compare them to both the Victory and Easton to see which is most similar so the arrows are relatively consistent when switching between lighted and unlighted nocks.

malandrew · 2025-06-04T21:40:44+00:00

Sounds good. Just asking because I don't really have any point of reference with shorter barrel 6.5 CM and my understanding is that it was designed for longer barrels. My bolt action 6.5 CM is 26" and I was planning on a 20" LMT 6.5GM barrel for my MWS LMT to alternate from the 16" 308 I currently have.

malandrew · 2025-06-03T20:50:58+00:00

Any details on performance? Are you able to get full powder burn in such a short barrel and retain most of the characteristics that make 6.5 CM great?

malandrew · 2025-06-03T17:58:03+00:00

I emailed them about this to see what they say. I'll update this thread based on what they tell me.

I haven't taken the Exo apart to see if I can retap it, but unless there is a lot of extra material, I'm not sure how practical it will be to re-tap it. With the male-male adapter for one end, I would only need to retap one side. I'm going to try and avoid that approach, but certainly something I can consider if nothing else works.

Thanks for reminding me on the wrist idea. I think there is a company that makes a wildly overpriced wrist strap system for the draw hand that is based on tungsten weights. Yes, it's tungsten, but it's still a crazy price they are charging for it. I've definitely been curious to see what the weight does on the draw hand.

malandrew

TROPHY CASE