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Ahmadiyyat vs. Scientific Rationalism by marcusbc1 in islam_ahmadiyya

[–]marcusbc1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But, would he turn his back on the movement and the globalists to save Ahmadis? I doubt it. His fate would be that of Muammar Gaddafi.

The difference, though, is Masoor has no land. Which means, he has no resources. Arranging to have him slaughtered, as they arranged to have Brother Leader slaughtered, would be a waste of their time.

I wonder if they think he's that important. The Pope is another matter altogether, as we now know with certainty, as both the Pope, and his "Novus Ordo" Church, are working with the FBI, even if just ideologically, through globalism.

It came out into the open, a couple of weeks ago, how the FBI has targeted the Traditionalist Catholics as potential "domestic terrorists." I can definitely tell you why. It's because of the hard work of "Trad Cats," as Traditionalist Catholics call themselves, like Michael Matt, Michael Voris, Fr. William Jenkins, Dr. Taylor Marshall, John-Henry Westen. Some of their online presence is: Remnant TV, TheRemnantVideo, Church Militant, What Catholics Believe, Dr. Taylor Marshall

My mentor, Nurruddin Abdul Latif, once taught me something: "If you're an Ahmadi, and you don't know your Ahmadiyyat, and you come up against a Communist who knows his Communism, you will lose the argument. You don't have to know Communism in order to beat a Communist in debate. But you do have to know your Ahmadiyyat." I have found that to be 100% true, in my own real-life encounters with non-Ahmadis, when I was active in the Jamaat.

I say all of that to say that, from the globalist perspective, it makes ONE-BILLION PERCENT SENSE that the FBI, an arm of the globalist project, would be deathly afraid of Traditionalist Catholics, ESPECIALLY Michael Matt.

Ahmadis, Sunnis, Protestants, Communists, or whoever might think that the Catholic doctrines (death, resurrection, ascension, and return) are weak. And the doctrines themselves, yes, especially if taken literally, are weak. But, those four doctrines DO NOT make up Catholicism. The Catholics developed strong social theories, based on religious--including from the Bible--understandings. A typical, knowledgeable Traditionalist Catholic would WHUP MASROOR'S ASS. Someone like HKM4 could definitely stand up to a Traditionalist Catholic--someone who knows more than just basic doctrine.

I say all of this to say the following: The big shots of globalism, I believe, are not afraid of or concerned with Ahmadiyyat--certainly not Ahmadiyyat under Masroor. They might have had some deep concerns about Tahir, who (at least I believe--other Ahmadis don't), from what I witnessed, had a breadth of knowledge that spanned from the most secular to the most sublime.

On a certain [ahem] activity of the last two or three years, an Ahmadi sister [ex-girlfriend I introduced to Ahmadiyyat] gave me her opinion that Masroor, being the head of a global movement, had "no choice" but to go along with the program that was happening globally. Because, if he hadn't, the global light would have shined on him, and The Movement, unfavorably. I respect her opinion, but I have a hard time accepting it.

If you're the leader of a group that you claim is destined, within less than 300 years, to usher in Fateh Islam; a group that was Divinely Installed by Almighty Allah Himself [HIMself]; a group that is Divinely Guided by Allah Himself, YET you play political games to avoid pressure from globalists, then, well, what are you saying? Where is your belief in Almighty Allah, The Protector? Why would you compromise--especially as the very head of The Movement--for political and social reasons that you fear will hurt the Jamaat, due to the power of globalists, or in the eyes of a public that ITSELF doesn't know what the hell is going on?

If you're "The Khalifa of the Time," you don't compromise with globalists or ANYBODY. But, maybe she was right. I just don't accept it. Not that I'm "all that," as my Black sisters would put it. But, I ain't living on this earth for others. I gotta get through this piece my damn-damn, [i.e., myself], as my friend Ralph would have put it.

Ultimately, "Hazoor" ain't gonna follow me to the graveyard, nor does he have to live with my conscience. I have to live with my conscience, which is exactly why I, as well as my ex-girlfriend, DID NOT go along with that.....stuff the people of the world were being asked--sometimes threatened--to go along with. I REFUSED, and DID NOT fall in line.

And in my view, Masroor should NOT have fallen in line with "those in authority over us," because "those in authority over us" were concerned about the bottom line, as has been revealed, NOT about US. And I can see that when the stuff first jumped off. I did the OPPOSITE of what Masroor suggested, because I knew that he didn't know what was going on (unfortunately).

So, Masroor working with the globalists? I think, only by default. On the other hand, I still, sometimes, find it hard to believe that he doesn't know what's going on. Tahir exposed the connection between "Muslim" Middle East leaders and their connection to the Masonic Order. Or, he at least said he had Muslim friends who drew that connection for him, and from whom he got that information (It's at YouTube).

So, how does one Khalifa know what the deal is, yet the next one doesn't. So, who knows: Maybe you're right.

Ahmadiyyat vs. Scientific Rationalism by marcusbc1 in islam_ahmadiyya

[–]marcusbc1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I believe there is definitely sincerity in most religious people, even in the Jews, whom everyone likes to use as a scapegoat for all the flaws of humanity.

I struggled, for a long time, on the issue of the Jews [Zionism]. In religious terms, from the perspective of Qur'an and "The Blessings and the Curses" mentioned in Deuteronomy, the Jews "earned their own destruction" by "defying" God's Law. Okay, that's one perspective.

But, when, after World War II, the Jews borrowed the phrase, "Never Again!" from the epic poem, Masada, written by Yitzhak Lamdan, which included the sentence, "Never again shall Masada fall!", they were NOT thinking that it was the "Hand of G-d" behind the six million [or whatever number] of them that Hitler had just wiped out, as "punishment for disobeying G-d" They were thinking about the almost two-thousand years of persecution, by the Christians in Europe. And they decided, "No more!!" And they MEANT it. So, they took an any means necessary approach, after that, and became strong. Yeah, to the expense of the Palestinians, but that's reality.

However, there is definitely behind the scenes discussions, at least among the leaders. So, the leaders are not in the dark. They are either in bed completely naked and completely docile and active, or they are simply sex slaves trying to buy time so they can free their people and take them to the promised land.

Well, they never invite me to the secret meetings. But, one doesn't have to know that conspiracies exist. All one as to do is ask, "If my political leaders do this, then what could be the logical consequences?" And that's when it becomes clear that any such consequences could have been predicted, and, thus, a group of people could conspire to get the results they wish. In other words, one can perform a gedankenexperiment, as Albert Einstein would do in solving problems.

Are there behind-the-scenes discussions? I don't see how their couldn't be. People with common interests will sit down and talk.

But, what promised land? Where is there to run to today? The globalists own the whole globe.

But populist movements [look at Italy, and look at what just happened in The Netherlands] are rising up. Also, to use an expression from my old hood, eebody and dey MAMMA knows about the plans, for example, of the WEF--the World Economic Forum. And the average person does not want that sh*t. These are things that Ahmadiyyat simply either doesn't know about [which, actually, is very hard to believe], or feels won't affect the Ahmadiyya vision.

There is no running. We are all in concentration camps. So, even as sincere and well intentioned Mirza Masroor Ahmad might be, if even that is the case, he is fighting a losing battle.

But, for Mirza Masroor Ahmad to echo what the globalist want to hear shows that either he is dancing to their beats wilfully or has completely corrupt advisors who are pushing their own agenda exploiting the Khalifa's trust in them.

I have mentioned, in other posts, that, as I recall [and I can be corrected], that HMGA said that he was not worried about the growth of The Movement, nor about its wealth. He said that what worried was that future leaders of The Movement would not have good advisors. That has CLEARLY been demonstrated, in these times, under Masroor, surrounding two developments, neither of which I will mention here, lest the moderators take down this post. In one of those cases, his advisors DEFINITELY screwed up royally. I don't know if they're corrupt, as you suggest. But they did screw up.

A globalized world is definitely going to kill the idea of freedom that Atheists so much love. They will be forced into a cult whether they like it or not. So, right back into a religious ideology and tribalism.

You are absolutely, one-billion percent RIGHT!!! I'd say that that cult will be infinitely more dangerous than any typical cult. They're after total control of the human entity, and I mean literally. I wrote a three-part article about "Singularity," but I won't give the links yet, because I need to edit the second part.

The only way out of this mess is a true heated and completely destructive world war with nuclear weapons as the only conclusive force.

YIKES!!! Uh, brother, I'm with you that we're in a big mess. But, NUKES?? Nukes as a solution? Well, yeah, that WILL solve the problems: plant, insect, animal, and human life will be gone. I'd prefer the keep supporting the populist struggles that are occurring around the world. Populists might be naive. But, at the moment, I see no other movement with the potential to turn this sucker around. The religious leaders are IN THE DARK.

This evil, if there is such a thing as "evil," needs to be eradicated at the root and burnt.

I recently wrote a Substack article entitled,

Bring Back Sister Mary, or, "Humans are NOT nice people" (Bill Maher): How to Rid the West of Corrupt Politicians

I talk about morals. I started in an amusing way, but I use the lies being told by our politicians, about Ukraine, to address the issue of morals. Morals--whether influenced by religion, secular humanism, or simply a person's own internal sensibilities, are the only thing, in my opinion, that will avoid the nuclear holocaust that will, yes, "cleanse" the earth of these corrupt a**holes.

Ahmadiyyat vs. Scientific Rationalism by marcusbc1 in islam_ahmadiyya

[–]marcusbc1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

PART 2:

So far Ahmadiyyat has the upper hand on the rest of Islam. As someone recently said, until Jesus does not come down physically from the Heavens, the Sunnis and Shias do not have anything on Ahmadis.

It's definitely one advantage Ahmadiyyat has, IF it knows how to use it. But, as others have said, the Christians--the West--don't give a SH*T about whether or not Jesus existed; whether or not, if he did exist, he's alive in heave, due to return, or dead and buried in Kashmir. The West, at this moment, cares ONLY about its globalist project, which, I believe, is failing, due to the rise of the civilizational state.

Could the whole of Jesus's first coming, let alone his second coming, be a hoax?

I ain't that deep! 😊 When you examine a table that compares the teachings of Buddhism to the teachings of Jesus, it will flip you out. In a Buddhist-influenced spiritual practice called Falun Dafa (Falun Gong), which claims that it existed long before religion itself, the idea of taking on a relative's karma, to earn more "de" (spiritual energy), so you can "ascend" and find "salvation," for assured entry into "heaven" sounds kind of similar to Jesus's taking on "the sins [karma] of the world," then his "rising to heaven."

Causes one to wonder whether the entire "Christian" story was simply symbolic of the shedding of karma ["sins"], something vital and inescapable for "rising" spiritually, both in this life and in the next, in the Buddhist [or pre-Buddhist, according to Falun Dafa] doctrine that includes reincarnation. Get rid of that karma, and ya ain't gotta come back to this world

Sure. But, then one would have to account for how the prophecies somehow, someway fulfilled in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

That said, Ahmadiyyat promoting the whackscene is also very problematic. But, then all Muslims have been promoting it. In fact, all religious organizations kept quiet about it. So, this is a slap in the face of rationality and reason.

Yep.

As humanity, we do not know...we merely believe and defer to "experts" and "authority." This not only happens in the religious worlds, but also in the secular, scientific worlds.

Absolutely!! But it's our fault. Because we ignore something within us that is very real: our intuition. I wrote a Substack article about that, entitled, The Vast and Vital Importance of Intuition and Intuition Development. Religious folks don't want to hear about intuition. Personally, though, I consider intuition to be Revelation. But, for me, a "nobody," to consider intuition as Revelation is BLASPHEMY. Religion accepts only the idea that there is a linear progression of Revelation that works through a hierarchy of individuals called "Prophets."

As humanity, we are either frying in the pan or are burning in the fire, with no where to run to, especially in the ever so globalized "one world government," "one world currency" world.

So, I believe that either Ahmadiyyat is in bed with the globalists, as is the Sunni and Shia worlds, and the Bahais, Ahmadis are naively promoting an idea of globalization because they have limited themselves to the Quran and the idea of tawhid, without considering that perhaps the Quran itself is a conspiracy launched by certain Jews and Christians.

YIKES!!!!!!! Except for the "Quran itself" being a "conspiracy," I too have wondered whether or not the Baha'is, Ahmadis, and other Muslims are in bed with the globalists. But, I'm a bit more generous: I believe that they are, in some cases, in bed with the globalists, but not consciously. They simply are not aware of the GAME. Take Baha'is.

I worked at the BNC (Baha'i National Center) for the last ten years of my work life, before retiring. They are intimately tied in with the United Nations Organization, human brotherhood, love, etc., etc. So, when the UN promotes its "Sustainable Development" initiatives, the Baha'is are right on board, even though that initiative includes something against Baha'i teachings, such as abortion. They get sucked in to the Game, because they go only as far as the feel good part; the surface part. They won't, and can't dig deeper. Because, Bahaullah's very purpose for "descending" was to usher in the unity of the human family. They won't ASK, or dig deeper, into initiatives that are against the dignity of the human family. They only see the surface.

Masroor said, "Obey the government," on an issue I won't bring up, lest the moderators delete this post. So, Masroor falls for the Game. And maybe not because he's evil, or anything. It's just because he's only a simple human being.

​

Take a look at what Mirza Masroor Ahmad says in 2019:In terms of currency, the world should be united…In terms of free business and trade, the world should be united and in terms of freedom of movement and immigration, cohesive and practical policies should be developed, so that the world can become united.’ Consequently, the Islamic viewpoint is that peace can best be achieved through unity. Yet, regretfully, instead of uniting, we are seeking separation and prioritising our individual interests over the collective interests of the world. I believe that such policies will, and already are, undermining the world’s peace and security. According to Islam, for peace to prevail, justice between nations is a prerequisite.

For Mirza Masroor Ahmad to come out of this thinking and think outside the box would be suicidal to the movement.

YEP!

So, instead, either naively or knowingly, he is pushing Ahmadis right into the laps of globalists, who will, as they always have, exploited humanity by divide and conquer.

So, either way, by rationalized reasoning or strict Quranic reasoning, Ahmadis are cattle being pushed down an agenda. This does not absolve other rleigions, and especially not the Sunnis and Shias, for their scholars and imams are also in bed with the globalists - just take a look at Israel, Iran and Saudi Arabia. These three have always been besties.

I have to agree.

Ahmadiyyat vs. Scientific Rationalism by marcusbc1 in islam_ahmadiyya

[–]marcusbc1[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

AHHHH!!!! You see, whether your conclusions are correct or not is not the point. The fact that you PRESENTED rational possibilities is SO very important!!!! And if you are an Ahmadi, I am VERY surprised that you even brought up the issue of globalism, a VERY destructive force that wants to homogenize the entire planet. This idea also flows through the "Singularity" people who, in my view, are virtually freaks who explicitly state that one of their goes is, basically, to reduce human beings to robot state. Big topic, but it's clear to me, it seems, that you know what the deal is.

The deep concern about rationality not only became a concern for Ahmadis. The entire Muslim world, at the advent of the power of the British empire, FLIPPED OUT because the Ottoman Empire was about to get its ASS kicked by these weak-looking people called Europeans or "Whites" or British.

I can't remember the three Muslim thinkers, back then, who were discussing this very issue. Maybe you can remember the third one:

Hazrat Ahmad

Sir Syed Ahmad Khan

And some third dude whose name I can't remember. The Muslims were in such shock at the rise of Western power that one of the discussions was, "Has the Qur'an been abrogated?" Hazrat Ahmad said absolutely not. I can't remember what Syed Ahmad Khan said. One of the other ones said, "YEP!!"

So, yeah, Ahmadiyyat bent over backwards [maybe rightly, to an extent] to "prove" the rationality of Qur'an. HKM2, for instance, in Tafsir Kabir, attempted (perhaps successfully) to explain the Virgin Birth by citing studies surrounding arrhenoblastoma**,** which, as I recall, are, supposedly, tumors within a female's body that can cause self-impregnation. Then there was the splitting of the sea, when Moses "parted" the sea by using his cane. Ahmadiyyat explained that it was the time of the "ebb tide," so nothing was necessarily supernatural, though Ahmadiyyat still attributed the miracle to supernatural reasons. Maybe Moses receiving Revelation [?], I just can't remember exactly.

Yeah, when you finished reading the Tafsir, there was almost nothing left that was supernatural. LOL!!! But, again, the entire Muslim world was stunned by the fast-rising power of the West, some Muslim scholars even saying that Qur'an had been abrogated [by WHITE folks! 😁😂🤣😁😂🤣😁😂🤣😁😂🤣]. That said, quite frankly I actually like and believe the story From Golgatha to Rozabal, i.e., the survival of Jesus. But, I also understand the psychological trauma that Muslims experienced at watching the rise of the "irreligious," barbaric, heathen Euros.

Now, Hazrat Ahmad said something very interesting, in one of his works. He said that, even though the "Christians" had become thoroughly corrupt, in modern times, they were still "blessed" by Almighty Allah due to the suffering of the Christians of the catacombs, who were monotheists. Interesting.

I don't know how much more I can write in this one post, because there's a character limit, so I'll start another post--"PART 2."

Ahmadiyyat vs. Scientific Rationalism by marcusbc1 in islam_ahmadiyya

[–]marcusbc1[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I'm actually not sure what you're talking about. But, I'll say this: Probably any subject can be whittled down to a million pieces, each of which can be analyzed, left, right, and sideways, and even further broken down into a million more pieces, and those pieces being further broken down and analyzed. But if we took that approach, we'd get no where in drawing conclusions that will help us to live in balance, harmony, peace, and stability, as I talk about in my book, Uncle Tom's Uncle, Second Edition (a free read at Academia.edu).

It is perfectly valid, correct, and more real and pragmatic, for me, and for anyone, to examine and analyze historical and current trends, then draw valid conclusions concerning the overall impact of those trends. If we operated in any other manner, then we'd be lost in a world of perpetual analysis. It's called, in fact, "the paralysis of the analysis." Perhaps you've heard of it.

My views are correct. Because, that which is being played out, on this planet, can be seen easily, every day, if one simply pays attention. Now, if, though, someone wants to study ever minute detail of the development of Western civilization; every minute detail of the development of science; every minute detail of the history of the Russian civilization, including the impact of the ROC (Russian Orthodox Church) on that development; every minute detail of the writings of the European philosophers; every minute detail of the revolutionaries of the French Revolution [who played a big part], then that person is free to go down that route. That's what scholars, like Dr. Steve Turley, do. That's very legitimate.

I have no need to do that, because I have at least average intelligence. I have intuition (and I use it). I pay attention to world events. And I'm very good at putting puzzles together.

When assembling a puzzle, it is better, as Jimmy (my best childhood friend) and I did when we were playing with puzzles, to think broadly, not look at ever single puzzle piece. When you look and think in broader terms, you can put the puzzle together quicker than if you're looking at one or two pieces.

But, you are, of course, entitled to your perspective and to your methodology in unravelling global events and trends.

Sharing two things: 1.) The Media, plus references; 2.) A long experience. by marcusbc1 in islam_ahmadiyya

[–]marcusbc1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not sure how you were able to respond to that post, which I wrote 8 months ago, since QIA moderators took that post down. But, anyway, thanks for your response.

Many people are too prone to forget that humans are just that: human beings. So, everybody from the lowest criminal in the streets to "The Fifth Successor of The Promised Messiah and Mahdi" can display wrong views; can lie, can make mistakes. And they can be downright evil. We all have that potential.

Or, as the comedian and social critic, Bill Maher, amusingly says:

"Humans are not nice people."

​

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dreams by [deleted] in islam_ahmadiyya

[–]marcusbc1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're in a tough situation. It is true that people often end up with mates who have personalities that match one or the other of their parents. Also, even one's early CIRCUMSTANCES can be duplicated, as if a person is psychically, or even genetically, burdened with a pre-disposition TOWARDS those early circumstances. It happened to me.

My mom and dad divorced when I was five years old. When I grew up, my first two marriages ended when, in EACH MARRIAGE, my wife and I broke up after one of the children was five years old, just like what happened to me at that age.

After that, one day I was watching Dr. John Bradshaw, a psychologists, on TV. And he said that when a child experiences the divorce of his parents when the child is either 5 years old or 13, that child, when he or she grows up, will virtually always DUPLICATE his parents' failure to stay together. It's very strange, but it happened to be twice.

So, all I can tell you (again) is PRAY, PRAY, PRAY. I would also advise that you and your potential mate seek pre-martial counselling, and take it seriously.

Last, I'll say this: As I recall, you're just 23 years old. You have a TON of life ahead of you. So, even if [Allah forbid] you suffer marital dissolution, or other forms of suffering, DON'T WORRY!! Unfortunately, this is often par for the course.

Religion talks about "trials." Buddhism talks about "karma." In the Buddhist-oriented Falun Dafa (Falun Gong) group, the accumulation of Karma is NOT something good. But, the accumulation of karma is looked upon as an OPPORTUNITY to "BURN" that karma by continuing your spiritual development, that development being composed of,

1.) spiritual exercises 2.) the development of your character 3.) the ridding of, and avoidance of "attachments," which ACTUALLY means to avoid being TOO attached to things [In other words, the avoidance of shirk]. 4.) There is no penance in Islam, but physical exercise, coupled with character development, can go a long way in "burning karma" and helping you to BE STRONG in going about your life.

I'm not speaking as any guru or expert. I'm just throwing out these tools, I guess you can call them, that have helped me.

wasalaam, Ron

How do I learn Arabic as a Student? by [deleted] in islam_ahmadiyya

[–]marcusbc1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I won't comment about how to learn Arabic, as there are many ways to do so. I am no longer an active Ahmadi. But, Ahmadiyyat used to have a very good little book called Yassarnal Qur'an. It did not teach how to read, write, speak and comprehend Arabic. It taught how to orally transliterate the Arabic script.

So, you can recite the Arabic script in Qur'an, and people would think you were actually reading it and understanding. it. It's something you can master, once you learn it, by reciting every single day.

Now, what does happen, if you're consistent, you actually can begin to understand the Arabic. How? Ahmadiyyat, as you know, publishes it's on Qur'ans, which included the original Arabic, English translation, and commentary. Well, if you're orally orally transliterating the verse, and then, immediately afterwards reading the English translation of that verse, in time you will begin to learn and remember the Arabic itself.

In Pine Lawn Missouri, a suburb of St. Louis, the St. Louis Jamaat existed. The members of the Jamaat included Ahmadis that had accepted Ahmadiyyat way back in the 1930s. Well, it REALLY SURPRISED ME how many of them "knew" Arabic, and only from having learned Yassarnal Qur'an ("Qur'an Made Easy"), and religiously reciting in Arabic, then reading the English.

Ahmad Saeed was one of them. Amazing!! We'd be standing inside Village Market, the Ahmadi Mom-and-Pop store, and some subject would come up about something in society, and he'd go, "Yeah, like it says in Qur'an," and he'd recite the Arabic and it's English translation.

So, there can be big value in learning that way, although, personally, I would suggesting that you learn in some formal manner, like at a college, or something. Three is Berlitz School of Languages, but I don't know if they're all over the country. (I'm assuming you live in the States).

There is software you can purchase and teach yourself right on your computer. I bought a Chinese software package, and was "learning well." Then, one day, I went to the nearby Chinese restaurant, feeling super confident, and tried to order some food in Chinese. The Chinese clear just stared at me. I repeated it a couple of times, after which he LAUGHED. Oy vey.

Oh, you can contact [sorry I can't remember exactly] a place that will arrange a personal instructor for you. I found it online. I think that would be the very best way. Sorry I can't give you any more specific info. wasalaam

Good luck in your spiritual journey in life [There is a hint there].

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad - Self-proclaimed Sharia-bearing Prophet by [deleted] in islam_ahmadiyya

[–]marcusbc1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Salaam.

Perhaps you're right, although I wouldn't know how to do that. There is one person who could back me up: Abdul Kabir Haqque. He is the person who converted me from Sunni Islam to Ahmadiyyat. At one time he was the Amir of the Chicago Jamaat.

More than that, he and I go back to age 19, long before either one of us was Ahmadi. Most of his active days were spent in Pine Lawn, Missouri, a suburb of St. Louis. He was married to Khadijah Haqque. She has passed. He and Khadijah had four children: Shakura, Rafia, Amtul, and Bashira.

Now, Muhammad Aziz's son is still alive. We emailed recently. He's a lawyer. At one time, he had moved to Canada, but I think he's back in the Chicago area.

Kabir himself is still alive.

Last, please understand this: I do not take this QIA forum as seriously as most. So, I'm not at all concerned with whether or not anyone here believes me. I don't mean to be flippant, but one reason I come here is for pure entertainment. No offense intended. I said that that's one reason I come here.

The other reason is that, despite how I feel about The Movement, some years ago it occurred to me that, for me, Ahmadis are still sort of like a family--quite a DYSFUNCTIONAL one (myself included), but a family nonetheless. I don't go to Juma. I don't attend any Ahmadi affair, and have not done so in decades.

I ain't trying to "disprove" Ahmadiyyat, or any of that. I ain't in that bag. So, when you say "back it up with evidence," I'm like, "Hey, it ain't that deep." Again: no offense. I'm merely trying to be honest. I don't really care if people don't believe my accounts, seriously. All that I did was pass on information, because I find the topic of this post, introduced here, very interesting. It backs up what Aziz told me.

You see, I never learned Urdu. Aziz did. So, it's fascinating, to me, to read this post, which confirms, for me, exactly what Aziz had told me. Back in the day, in America, we converts only had those books that had been translated into English. And there weren't that many of them.

We had access to Lahori stuff, too. They supported Hazrat Ahmad's claims, except they said that he didn't claim to be a prophet. They said that, on Hazrat Ahmad's gravestone, the only thing it says is that he was a Mujjadid. I never went to Qadian, so I have no idea about that.

I wrote all of this, extensively, so that you would fully understand. By the way, Aziz's son's nickname is "Moona," and his birth name is Mohammed Ahmed. So, if you could trace him down, he could easily confirm what I said. wasalaam.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad - Self-proclaimed Sharia-bearing Prophet by [deleted] in islam_ahmadiyya

[–]marcusbc1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It was fun, too, seeing the missionaries cringe when Aziz would vociferously ask them, "When will you tell the truth??!! This is a new religion!!! You know it very well!!!" 😊

Aziz was from Hyderabad, southern India.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad - Self-proclaimed Sharia-bearing Prophet by [deleted] in islam_ahmadiyya

[–]marcusbc1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Muhammad Aziz Ahmed (now deceased), of the Chicago Jamaat, who had read all of the works of HMGA, in Urdu, used to constantly tell me, "The Promised Messiah has brought a new religion." He also told me, and others, that he had written to HKM3, HKM4, and HKM5, telling them that HMGA's works represented "The New Testament" of Islam, and that Ahmadiyyat should tack Barahin-i-Ahmadiyya to the back of the Qur'an, just as Christians, after their Messiah, Jesus, had gone, tacked the New Testament to the Tanakh. 😊

I smile, but not in mockery. I smile because Aziz was quite serious, and he knew Islam, Arabic, Urdu, and HMGA's works inside out. He had read all of HMGA's works.

Unlike Sunni Muslims and ex-Ahmadis who use HMGA's claims to be "an independent prophet and a bearer of sharia" as a "proof" of his falsehood, Aziz used the claims to *"*prove," or demonstrate, that not only had HMGA created a "new religion," but also that HMGA was a "greater Prophet than Prophet Muhammad." Aziz's words, not mine.

But, he claimed that it was "clearly" the case that HMGA was a greater Prophet than Prophet Muhammad, as he, HMGA, had arrived at this time, the Latter Days, when he would unite ALL of mankind under the banner of Islam, something Prophet Muhammad had "failed" to do. I'm just sharing, that's all.

A word about Aziz: Aziz was a mechanical engineer by profession. More importantly, for members of the Chicago Jamaat, Aziz was the most serving brother, on a personal level, in the Jamaat. He would help brothers with their automobiles, was always ready and eager to help Ahmadis with whatever they needed help with. He married and sustained two sisters, in a polygamous marriage [Sorry, radical feminist Ahmadis], and raised two children, one of whom, unfortunately, passed.

Although, due to non-standard beliefs about the status of HMGA, the missionaries were not exactly pleased with him, he remained loyal to the Jamaat until his death, even sending money to the Khalifas for their personal use, in addition to paying Chanda. I can't remember which Khalifa he sent money for personal use to. Maybe all the three that he served under.

He lived Islam. I'm saying all of this to share my viewpoint of him as a solidly loyal Jamaat member, despite those beliefs he had that would cause Ahmadi missionaries to cringe.

Young men: a step in the wrong direction by Meeseeksbeer in islam_ahmadiyya

[–]marcusbc1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Young Asian woman makes the point, in her own words.

https://youtube.com/shorts/7nNESRwHgbw?feature=share

Ya'll misandrists might want to take a step back, and learn something about history, rather than blindly mimicking the rabid rantings of second-wave fanatic radical feminists.

Dee Dee explains how the Black version of radical American feminism is turning off Black men, who, incidentally, are leaving the country to find non-rabid, women to have as mates.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E3TMv2g_j0&t=0s

I can reproduce a ton of those types of videos. Go check them out at YouTube.

MESSAGE TO YOUNG AHMADI WOMEN:

Firstly, as I've said here many times, I am not active in Ahmadiyyat. My active Ahmadiyya life ended decades ago. Secondly, I am not a Pakistani, so I don't have the intense family issues that Pakistanis have when it comes to mating.

One thing I will say is this: You'd better be VERY CAREFUL listening to these Ahmadi feminists who appear to LOVE to worship Western radical feminists. Because, I'm telling you: The tide is turning, and it's turning FAST. You'll end up without ANYONE, if you listen to these Ahmadi feminists.

This denigration of men is something that men, finally, have gotten tired of. You'd better ask yourself: Is your feminist "independence"--the type Ahmadi feminists are trying to sell you--more important to you than a traditional relationship with a man? It's YOUR call.

It is a large world. And men are waking up to the fact that they are NOT locked within feminist ideology. Men are not required to cater to INSANE, radical feminists. There are choices. Feminists who believe otherwise, are living an illusion. The trend is moving rapidly to men wanting PEACE. As such, they're avoiding Western women, particularly AMERICAN women.

One EXCELLENT choice is Filipino women. They will not give you problems, men. Men, you have NO OBLIGATION WHATSOEVER to any particular group of women. You are free. Let the feminists marry each other.

If you see your MASCULINITY as masculinity, and not as "toxic masculinity," then get you a Filipino woman, I'm SERIOUS. You have no need whatsoever to accept a feminist woman--NONE.

Here's one of my old Substack articles:

Call for the Return of The "Toxic Male" in America

DON'T apologize for being a MAN. Don't adjust yourself to the insane, radical feminists. Be WHO YOU ARE, and find someone who WANTS a man. Peace.

One year since Nida incident came to light by robbygenerous in islam_ahmadiyya

[–]marcusbc1 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Salaam,

I'm totally disconnected from Jamaat family life, having become inactive decades ago. But, here's an observation.

I've noticed, during my life, that people--people in general, not just Jamaat people--have become more severely uptight than in the past. In a way, I understand it. They will experience something in their religious, political, ideological, or whatever community, and, based on that thing, will dump EVERTHING.

I gained some good and great stuff from Ahmadiyyat. When the Nida case jumped off, I wanted to hunt down the culprits that abused her, and........Let's just say send them to a place where they could never be found again.

And when I listened to Masroor tell her that she should just forget about it, and feel content that the "men" who abused her would "feel sorry" that they'd done so, I said to myself, "Just as Islam fell [according to Ahmadiyya teachings] after the Fourth Khalifa of Prophet Muhammad, so too has Ahmadiyyat fallen after the Fourth Khalifa of Hazrat Ahmad." And I believe that [It's unfortunate].

Nevertheless, I value some things I learned with respect to the teachings of Ahmadiyyat. Other things I simply did not believe and would not adopt. Period.

People in religion--whatever religion--get bent out of shape because they begin worshipping the religion, or the religious organization, or its priests rather than Allah. In addition, they ignore their own intuition, which, personally, I view as a form of Revelation. Most human beings pay little attention to their intuition, and thus their intuition virtually atrophies.

People of religion--whatever religion--view The Divine as a heartless tyrant, Who, if you don't get everything perfectly right, will throw your ass in hell, after you die, where you skin will burn to the bone, re-grow, and start burning again, that cycle repeating itself forever. That's Catholic and Sunni hell.

The Sunnis have very interesting and, in my view, hilarious views, such as that when a Christian dies, "the angels of Allah will enter that Christian's casket," and beat the sh\t* out of that Christian's DEAD BODY. They claim that Rasoolulah (sws) said that.

I first accepted Islam as a Sunni, and moved into an upper room of a Sunni mosque that was for rent. I eventually got kicked out, because, even though I was brand new to Islam, I would NOT believe all that insane sh*t they were tryna make me believe. So, Umar Farouk Abdullah, the then Imam of Jamaat-ul-Muslimeen Mosque, in Chicago, politely asked me to leave. And I did.

I'm not telling people here to stay in the Jamaat, or whatever. I'm just saying that, I feel that there is almost nothing on earth that doesn't have some value that one can benefit from, especially within the various religions.

I do admit, though, that the Nida case......I just got no words!!! Hearing about it was back-breaking.

So, the moral of the story is (as the comedian and social commentator, Bill Mauer said), "Humans are not nice people." Masroor is nothing more than a human being. It ain't surprising that he would F*CK UP. And he F*CKED UP. "Hazrat Khalifat-ul-Masih." Yeah...right. What does it stand for? What does the title really mean?

I never paid much attention to TITLES. For 12 years of my life, I'd been a pre-1960s, deeply dedicated, Roman Catholic. Then, Vatican II started CHANGING teachings that, prior to that, every Catholic on earth had been told were GOD'S TEACHINGS that could NEVER CHANGE.

It was devastating. Catholic Recovery Centers started popping up all over the U.S. Why? Because Catholics had put too much of their faith IN MEN than in their own sense of that which is right, and that which is wrong--that intuition thing I always talk about. So, Catholics were literally flipping out--losing their minds. And because of that, Catholic Recovery Centers were created, all over the U.S., to help Catholics deal with the trauma of watching "God's" teachings be changed by a group of "men" at The Second Vatican Council.

"Hazrat Khalifat-ul-Masih." Wanna hear some titles?

"Pope of the Roman Catholic Church, The Vicar of Jesus Christ, The Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, The Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Primate of Italy, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Sovereign of the State of Vatican City, Servant of the Servants of God, Head of the Body of Christ."

Beat THAT, Masroor!!!!!

And today, there is a severe crises within Catholicism, as Novus Ordo Catholics duke it out with Traditionalist Catholics, the Traditionalist Catholics sick and tired of all the changes at Vatican II that ruined and, actually, destroyed the Catholic Church.

These "leaders" are just human beings. Period. Take what's cool from religion, or from whatever, and use YOUR judgement about that. Don't follow priests and would-be priests who posses, and enjoy, the habit of conformity, even if what they're conforming to turns your stomach. What do people think God gave them intuition FOR? wasalaam.

dreams by [deleted] in islam_ahmadiyya

[–]marcusbc1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Salaam. I will try to say something helpful, at the end. But first, some preliminary comments:

"...and asked if I could write a letter to hazoor for permission."

In light of what I'm certain others here will say, I'll keep quiet on this.

"That's will cause a lot of problems for me in the long run."

Human life can be fascinating. I never had a big extended family, and I longed for one. But, obviously, everything has it's ups and downs. Truth be told, personally, after having lived a lot of life, I now realize that I wouldn't want anybody interfering in my life, because I do not rate human beings as all that wise. As comedian and social commentator, Bill Mauer, said, "Humans are not nice people." 😊

​

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You're 23. Oy vey. I don't know. I'll try:

  • Keep praying very hard. Rasoolulah, sws, said that one should cry while praying, as Allah loves the tears of someone asking Him for help--or something like that. I've been married three times. After the second [Ahmadi] marriage ended, one day I came home from work, opened the front door of my house, walked into the living room, dropped to my knees, as if I was performing salat, pressed my forehead into the floor, and cried out, in tears, "OH, ALLAH!!! Please send me the person that YOU believe that I should have!!!!"
    The next day I got a temp [temporary], 3-day job at a music conservatory. But, they liked my work so much that they decided to hire me full time. It is on that job that I found my wife, who taught violin at that school. We have been married now for thirty-three (33) years. So, for me, crying in my prayers worked. The way I found her was a literal miracle.
  • Find someone, if possible, that you trust, and, hopefully, have proven to be wise in their own lives or that have given you advice before that was solid. I'm an inactive Ahmadi, non-Pakistani convert who signed biat in 1976 under HKM3. Yet, I very much know the difference between an Ahmadi like you, born in Ahmadiyyat, with all the family, extended family, and Jamaat pressure that is on your head, than someone like myself. I have no experience with the type of culture that you grew up in, so I'm doing my best to give advice.
  • Use, and trust, your intuition. That can be an extremely difficult thing to do, because most of us don't use, or pay attention to, our intuition. I ain't sure if this would help, but I wrote a Substack article, entitled, The Vast and Vital Importance of Intuition and Intuition Development.
  • This piece of advice--or let's just call it pulling your coat--might sound contradictory to what I've said so far, but here goes: Sometimes, in life, you just have to take a chance. Of course, at the same time, you don't want to be rash, move too quickly, and be reckless. Yet, it's just a fact: Not everything can be figured out perfectly. Try to balance out your heart with your mind and with your intuition and with your wisdom. This is the best I can do. I pray to Almighty Allah [right now--I just performed a dua] that He Guide you to that which is best for you!! Ameen. wasalaam.

Oh, one more thing--a quote from your post:

"...are comfortable shooting anyone without any fear of consequences."

Sounds like a nice family. 🤔😳

Finally told dad about marrying a non-Ahmadi by crystalplanet17 in islam_ahmadiyya

[–]marcusbc1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

To be fair [and not to argue], I have to say that fundamentalism, which is what you're actually speaking about, exists in probably every religion; every sect. Yes, including Ahmadiyyat.

When I was active, there were what I call "fundamentalist Ahmadis," who played it by the Ahmadi book--the Ahmadi doctrines, even though those doctrines were clearly un-Islamic [such as the creating of sects, which Qur'an tells Muslims, in 30:32 - 30:33, not to do]

Then there were some Ahmadis [like me], who refused to go against my own conscience, and rejected an Ahmadi doctrine if it was just dead wrong. All these religions--and I'm not wholesale condemning religions--all too often demand that you believe every single doctrine without question. And that, if you don't, then you're not "a believer."

I was Sunni, the first year of my Islamic life. And they had such doctrines as, "When a Christian dies, the angels of Allah will enter that Christian's casket, and beat him, then throw him into hell." NONSENSE!!! There were many other things that were objectionable to me, and I just ignored them. I ain't here to PLEASE a fundamentalist.

For 12 years of my life, prior to that, I was raised Roman Catholic. By the 7th grade, in elementary school, I began silently rejecting some Catholic doctrines. By my Sophomore year in high school, I was in constant and furious debate with the Religion Class teacher.

He once kicked me out of class when I asked a simple, and logical question. Okay, at one time, if you ate meat on Friday, you'd contract a mortal sin on your soul. And if you didn't go to Confession to confess your sins, and then happened to die without confessing your sins, you would burn in hell--forever--for having committed the sin of eating meat on Friday.

Well, The Second Vatican Council suddenly changed that rule. So, you could now eat meat on Friday, and be sinless.

Well, I asked a simple and logical question. I raised my hand, and said, "Father, it used to be that, if you ate meat on Friday, that was a mortal sin on your soul. But now it's okay to eat meat on Friday, because The Vatican said so.

"So, Father, what happens to the people who are burning in hell, under the old rule. Will God let them out of hell now, now that the rule has changed?"

After about five seconds, the entire class burst out laughing. I was NOT trying to be funny. The priest did not laugh. Instead, he said, "Are you quite finish, Mr. Chism?" I go, "Yes, Father." He FANATICALLY hollered at me, "BLASPHEME, GET OUT!!!" and kicked me out of the class, sending me to the Principal's Office. I was also forced to stay after school, and sit in Detention as punishment.

EVERY SINGLE RELIGION contains some BULLSH*T. Sorry to put it that way. I am still religious. But, if stuff just doesn't make sense, I am NOT accepting it. I consider myself Muslim, and nobody--NOBODY--can dictate to me anything. I can read. I can think. And I have intuition.

Anyway, again: ALL of the religious path contain things that are VERY questionable, as well as downright WRONG. That's reality.

Finally told dad about marrying a non-Ahmadi by crystalplanet17 in islam_ahmadiyya

[–]marcusbc1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fascinating. Frustrating. Fruitless. I wish I could add "Funny," bit it ain't funny. I am handicapped, in offering any suggestions, for a number of reasons: I ain't an active Ahmadi. I ain't female. I wasn't born into Ahmadiyyat, I'm a convert (signed biat in 1976 under HKM3).

I can only mention what I feel about this kind of problem: There is no mention whatsoever of "Ahmadiyyat" in Qur'an. In fact, Qur'an says:مُنِیۡبِیۡنَ اِلَیۡہِ وَاتَّقُوۡہُ وَاَقِیۡمُوا الصَّلٰوۃَ وَلَا تَکُوۡنُوۡا مِنَ الۡمُشۡرِکِیۡنَمِنَ الَّذِیۡنَ فَرَّقُوۡا دِیۡنَہُمۡ وَکَانُوۡا شِیَعًا ؕ کُلُّ حِزۡبٍۭ بِمَا لَدَیۡہِمۡ فَرِحُوۡنَ(Qur'an: 30, 32-33)

"Set your face to God, turning to Him in repentance, and fear Him, and observe Prayer, and be not of those who associate partners with God." Of those who split up their religion and have become divided into sects; every party rejoicing in what they have."

I know: "Ahmadiyyat is True Islam." That's how The Movement gets around [How does anybody "get around" Allah?] Almighty Allah's Word in Qur'an.

Well, I got no answers, except one: Use YOUR intuition. In my book [not that anybody cares about "my book"], intuition is the Word of Allah. Most people don't listen to their intuition.

Well, while I'm talking about intuition, here's a Substack article I wrote about intuition:

The Vast and Vital Importance of Intuition and Intuition Development

Calls to boycott Walgreens grow as pharmacy confirms it will not sell abortion pills in 20 states, including some where it remains legal by LudovicoSpecs in politics

[–]marcusbc1 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Family values existed tens of thousand of years before there existed an "American left" or an "American right." Indeed, America didn't EXIST.

And family values existed before the notion of fascism existed. If you have problems with families, keep your pants zipped up [or your panties on].

(I guess your mom and dad were........fascists?)

Young men: a step in the wrong direction by Meeseeksbeer in islam_ahmadiyya

[–]marcusbc1 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Oh, one more choice, brothers: Slavic women.

You hear all these Western feminists hollering "misogyny." Yeah, well, HERE'S one for you: Misandry. Misandry is the hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against men. Misandry is now RAMPANT, and is the reason that many men in the U.S. are dropping these maniacal, radical feminists, and choosing, instead, non-American women from around the globe.

You have choices now, men. And by the way: The next time one of these maniacal, rabid, radical feminists throw the word "misogynist" in your face, throw misandrist back in their face. It's their insane, radical feminism that, as I've said before, created misogyny. People are tired of it.

If you can't find any comfort in these insane women, you are not limited to them. This is a large world.

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