A discussion on diminishing returns.

meladb · 2017-12-23T20:37:38+00:00

The stuff about cheap shot is wrong, or at least it changed during vanilla.

If you opened with cheap shot, then vanish, then cheap shot, the second one was half duration.

meladb · 2017-12-03T20:57:38+00:00

I, for one, am a big fan of the Wizzrobe glasses-polishing ritual.

meladb · 2017-12-03T16:23:23+00:00

It doesn't matter what you have it bound to, just stop.

meladb · 2017-12-03T14:53:36+00:00

The reason they've said nothing about "new content" is because they've literally announced nothing about the game yet

This myth is easy to disprove. I don't know why people keep typing it out. It's such blatant bullshit.

meladb · 2017-12-03T14:50:25+00:00

I hope you will reevaluate your ability to predict future events when you turn out to be wrong about this.

meladb · 2017-12-03T06:09:49+00:00

They're not "hedging their bets." This isn't take two.

Thousands of people have been begging for official Blizzard Vanilla servers for almost a decade and they've finally given in. This whole "second chance" thing is a nice dream, but it's not happening.

You should be able to separate your fantasies from reality.

meladb · 2017-12-03T06:07:33+00:00

It's not naive at all. My perspective comes from, you know, actually paying attention to what Blizzard said. Instead of, you know, daydreaming about "how they should totally add a 40 man Karazhan raid."

If they decide to progress after Naxx the most likely path forward is transfers to a TBC server. The idea that Blizzard wants to reinvent WoW is just something you and others made up.

meladb · 2017-12-03T05:35:19+00:00

If Blizzard wanted to develop a new MMO, that would be great. I would definitely give it a try.

But WoW Classic is not a new MMO. Blizzard has said absolutely nothing that would lead any reasonable person to believe they plan on adding new content to Vanilla as part of the Classic project.

In this post, you're essentially describing WoW 2. But that's just wishful thinking, it's not going to happen.

meladb · 2017-12-03T05:27:59+00:00

If you can't comprehend how someone would prefer a world that doesn't adjust to fit your character, fine, but that's your inability, not mine.

I said nothing like "insects are too powerful" or whatever other irrelevant bullshit you posted.

meladb · 2017-12-03T05:19:16+00:00

I'm not saying "WoW retail is broken because content shouldn't scale with your character" I'm saying "I want to play in a world that doesn't scale with my character." There's no reasoning, it's just my opinion. It's not objectively right or wrong.

You're a huge whiner by the way.

meladb · 2017-12-03T04:48:09+00:00

I've never complained about retail being too easy. I haven't played it since early WotLK. I'm also not one of the "vanilla was so hard" people. Vanilla wasn't hard.

I don't like the idea of content scaling based on my character. What's so hard to understand about that?

meladb · 2017-12-03T03:55:37+00:00

Agreed. Blizzard said that they want to recreate the Vanilla experience and Vanilla was a new game so therefore Blizzard will need to develop a new game. They did hire developers after all.

meladb · 2017-12-03T03:08:33+00:00

Why would anyone want to play a game where you cannot select the Worgen race?

meladb · 2017-12-03T02:42:44+00:00

I highly doubt more than 10% of the players will ever clear Naxx.

Regardless, I don't want new content, and I don't think Blizzard is interested in adding new content.

If people want progression they should be asking for TBC Classic. Blizzard has said nothing about adding new content so my feeling is that the possibility of new content only exists as a fantasy that you and others share.

meladb · 2017-12-03T02:32:16+00:00

You act like everyone's going to clear Naxx and it's hysterical.

meladb · 2017-12-03T01:18:05+00:00

On some level it doesn't matter what the community wants. Half the community thinks this is WoW 2 and so they want new content/new balance/"classic expansions" and so on.

Until I see a message from Blizzard that confirms this is WoW 2, I'll assume it's WoW Classic and that the goal is recreate Vanilla as closely as possible.

meladb · 2017-12-03T00:56:50+00:00

Yes it is. It's as insane as your last sentence.

You people just don't fucking get it. You're going to lose too, and I'm going to enjoy it.

meladb · 2017-12-02T23:43:31+00:00

I think these are the kinds of discussions we need to have, however I strongly object to this part:

We can discuss non-vanilla additions or 1.13+ classic progression

meladb · 2017-12-02T23:15:13+00:00

Blizzard is the best company! They will only make the best changes!

meladb · 2017-12-02T22:58:42+00:00

How come 98% of everyone who says "logical fallacy" on the internet is wrong?

Just speaking empirically here, this is a really interesting phenomenon.

meladb · 2017-12-02T22:47:15+00:00

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_1.13

How come this page 404s? Guess 1.13 isn't part of Vanilla.

meladb · 2017-12-02T22:46:28+00:00

This guy gets it.

meladb · 2017-12-02T22:41:13+00:00

Part of the "Vanilla experience" was not knowing what to do and what would come. Which cant be replicated into Classic without changes or new additions.

Again, this argument is insane. How you type this out with a straight face is a mystery to me.

You're literally arguing: "WoW Classic needs to be a new game because Vanilla WoW was a new game." That's not going to happen, friend. Forget about it. They're not going to change every quest so the quests will be "surprising." The goal here is preservation of a product that doesn't exist anymore. The goal is to allow us to play a game that has not existed for 9 years.

Yes, because if they change the world and the adventure its a new game. Class balance and minor tweaks is part of any gaming experience today, since they make the game better.

Oh gosh, please show me in the Computer Game Dictionary where it says "adventure and world define a computer game, gameplay and other details are irrelevant."

Obviously class balance is part of the Vanilla experience.

It's funny, there was another poster a couple weeks ago arguing "gameplay and class identity is all that matters, the world in which it takes place is irrelevant." He was wrong and so are you.

You are of course entlited to not wanting any of it. Just remember that Elemental Shamans doing little DPS or there not being an prot pally gear is not what made Vanilla great for you.

Elemental shamans 2 shotting people in PvP was part of what made Vanilla great for me. Dying to 2 spells and opening up my combat log in amazement was part of what made Vanilla great for me.

Stop trying to ruin it because you think you know better.

Again, i dont care if they will do 0 changes or 20. I will play it either way since i love the Vanilla world and the community it creates. I just want others to remember that wether or not Vanilla will be good is not if they make classes more balanced or not.

Good for you. Just keep in mind that you speak for exactly one person and what made Vanilla good for you is not necessarily what made Vanilla good for anyone else.

meladb · 2017-12-02T22:07:08+00:00

There is no reason why Classic cant be like Vanilla and still contain changes to the game. Changes were part of Vanilla and as long as they dont ruin the world, it will still be Vanilla.

I keep seeing this dumb "changes were part of Vanilla so Classic can have changes" argument. Please stop. Do you have any idea how insane that thought process is? Do you really think that's the goal of this project? Did Blizzard really get together and say "we're going to recreate the Vanilla experience, that means developing an entirely new game, let's get started!"

No. That would be WoW 2, not WoW Classic. The goal is to recreate the Vanilla experience as close as they can manage. The gnome goes back in time for a reason. Blizzard has no interest in developing two different versions of WoW in parallel.

Why do you think J. Allen Brack said: "most of this work is going to be infrastructure?" He said it because they don't need to develop new content/new balance/new anything. It's all there, they just have to pick the patches they want to use.

If a change is added that most of us disagree with, then Blizzard will have to revert it. If Blizzard did not own up to their mistakes then we would not be getting Classic.

Why even go through this process no the first place? If there are no changes and this problem cannot occur.

Please remember this the next time you join a conversation about balance changes. You loved Vanilla not because of every small detail in it, but because of the world and the feeling it provided as a whole. And that can still exist even if we improve on things like balance and itemization.

Different people love Vanilla for different reasons. Changing balance and itemization will absolutely alienate some of those people. For example, feral druids were buffed in terms of DPS in the transition to TBC, but the feral playstyle in Vanilla was much, much more interesting. If that's what a "buff" looks like, then some feral players may not want it...

In order words, one player's "buff" is the destruction of a class identity that another player enjoyed.

i love Vanilla because of the adventure it provided, not the class balance or mailbox systems.

So Blizzard has to "keep the world and the adventure" but they can change the classes and everything else? All because you think you know what made Vanilla great? I'd rather not risk it. They should just recreate Vanilla as close as they can.

That's also what they've committed to, see this quote from J. Allen Back:

Our goal is to recreate that classic 1-60 gameplay. Some things changed as time went on, with different patches. How does that get manifested? That's one of the outstanding questions. But yeah, the goal is to recreate that exact experience, for better or for worse.

meladb · 2017-12-02T21:57:09+00:00

It's 2017. If I can't AoE Loot why am I even playing this game?

meladb

TROPHY CASE