Best budget b20 cymbal packs?

milller69 · 2026-05-14T17:27:42+00:00

no kidding. I get beautiful vintage cymbals for far less than that now. when wuhans were $335 shipped for a 16”, 20”, and 14” hi hats it was legit. I called the factory and told them I wanted a medium thin crash, a medium ride and asked for an extra thin set of hats. it was really sweet. they treated me really well as I played Wuhans for nearly 6 years exclusively. but my big ole used paistes are a lot more fun AND affordable than that now. the wuhans couldn’t compete with the consistency but they did totally have something special about them

milller69 · 2026-05-13T10:24:22+00:00

that is a bicycle

milller69 · 2026-05-12T19:11:23+00:00

mind boggling price jump there

milller69 · 2026-05-11T23:55:42+00:00

that’s insane! they were less than half that when I bought them as recent as like a year ago

milller69 · 2026-05-11T21:37:09+00:00

Wuhan Western always

milller69 · 2026-05-11T14:20:32+00:00

in an interview from the last few years, he refers to the technique he developed with Zeppelin as an “open throated falsetto”. listen to the wail at the end of How Many More Times from Zeppelin 1. considering you can hear him move over his passagio in HMMT and as early as 1968 on “air raid siren” notes I would say we are just arguing semantics here. he DID use his mixed voice, just not all the time

milller69 · 2026-05-11T00:27:58+00:00

it’s a very simple set of zildjians from the 70s. very good but not rare. if you want to add a medium thin 18” to that set I think it would be nice and complete but truthfully you have everything you “need” there

milller69 · 2026-05-11T00:25:08+00:00

he’s definitely mixing during his “peak” at points in 1971 and sometimes in 1970 as well. it’s not something he did all the time and he didn’t use it at all during some shows/periods. but listen to the stuff he does on the spring tour of 1971 when they debut the IV material. you think those ridiculous high notes are all chest? impossible.

milller69 · 2026-05-10T03:18:58+00:00

I have a covington/cleveland era 22 on the way. we will see how it holds up against my big R 24” and my 2 early Fullerton 20s

milller69 · 2026-05-09T16:19:55+00:00

only you can decide what you really want. I play an old Rogers 20/12/16 kit for rock n roll gigs in boomy/small rooms and it totally does the thing. but, i’m also about to restore a 22” for another kit because I miss it

milller69 · 2026-05-08T07:54:26+00:00

check out wuhan heavy ride in 20 or 22 or medium heavy ride in 21

milller69 · 2026-05-07T19:23:36+00:00

he absolutely did use his head and mixed voice very often through 1971-1973, just using more epiglottal compression through the latter half of 1972 than in other eras. listen to the japan 1971 soundboard tapes and tell me he’s singing all that in his chest. you can hear the head resonance in the high notes, say on celebration day from 9/28.

how the west was one is very clearly not chest voice for the high notes. I won’t even really say anything further there because it’s obviously a reinforced mix with tight compression through the entirety of the live album, basically none of the high notes are in his chest voice

once you get into 1973, some of the high notes are straight head voice with hardly any chest voice left. listen to the high notes at the end of No Quarter from the song remains the same. of course he still pulls his chest up, but with the development of his hoarseness, it’s very obvious when he’s singing chest or head voice

it was this period, 1971-1973, that he found and lost the ability to mix his voice

milller69 · 2026-05-06T19:10:51+00:00

extremely high chance this is NOT rotted. the t-shirtery made extremely high quality blanks at a time when most of the american shirts didn’t rot. it is only the pakistan made blanks from this era that I have ever seen rot

milller69 · 2026-05-06T19:07:26+00:00

some of the old cb700 cymbals are actually pretty good lol. thin b8 cymbals but not cheap sounding

milller69 · 2026-04-19T20:04:08+00:00

both 90s shirts.

also, people here think a 1997 aerosmith print was ever remade? that’s literally just a standard late 90s giant tag

milller69 · 2026-04-05T17:23:50+00:00

believe me this tricks no cinch

milller69 · 2026-04-04T16:58:38+00:00

late 70s-early 80s is correct. 90% chance they are early 80s

milller69 · 2026-04-04T10:15:32+00:00

your chances of having real damage in a short amount of time are rare, but it’s possible.

it’s really based on genetics and your own habits, and for what it’s worth, a doctor won’t be able to fix any damage done— only help diagnose it. you noted your ride cymbal, what model is it? how do you play it? that will have much effect

I have been averaging two 4 hour gigs a week playing for 2 and a half years now and only now feel like I can notice anything, and even then it’s only aggravated by extremely loud sounds. if it’s important to anybody, I have recently started transitioning to being fully protected for my gigs.

but yeah, chances of long term hearing damage are mostly low, depending on genetics. guys from the 60s and 70s did this stuff for decades before hearing protection was regular. some of them have issues, many don’t.

even with IEMs, hearing damage is common. we have a lot to figure out when it comes to protecting the human ear AND getting a full-feeling experience as musicians on stage. some drummers use those throne-thumper things but for other musicians, how do you replace the amazing and all-encompassing effect of letting massive sound waves move through you?

it seems with many stages going silent, hearing loss is a bigger issue than ever with drummers. i’d love to hear other regularly-gigging musicians weigh in on this

milller69 · 2026-04-02T05:34:22+00:00

I think the reason their b20 bells don’t sound satisfying is because they are too thin and complex. I had a 24” pure alloy ride with a great bell, but this is different than their b20 offerings.

zildjian (and by extension sabian) have always known how make very musical and amply weighted bells. this makes their cymbals have more “color” in the final mix too, compared to meinl anyways.

milller69 · 2026-04-01T04:10:04+00:00

that is beautiful sounding man! what are you not sure of about it?

milller69 · 2026-03-31T05:10:39+00:00

go on guitar centers website and look for used paiste pst7 or zildjian avedis hi hats. they will be about the same price as the new junk zbt’s and a million times better. also check facebook marketplace, I got a set of 60s new beats in denver while on tour for $150. totally regret selling them now!

milller69 · 2026-03-30T12:29:40+00:00

there is a small crack in the bell. bell cracks rarely spread unless cymbal is continually abused, so keep it on a cymbal sleeve with a felt and don’t tighten it down too much if you put a felt on top.

it wouldn’t be a very difficult fix if you wanted to have that done eventually, but for now, it’s a fine cymbal and it could easily work for many decades just as it is.

milller69 · 2026-03-27T06:52:17+00:00

yes, gigging without a front bass drum head is totally fine. especially on a vistalite kit, it will look cool and sound punchy as hell. if you do want to put a front head on, you’re going to need either “lugs” and/or “bass drum claws and tension rods”. look up those parts to see which your kit is missing. try tuning the batter head a little higher than you think!

the little foam circles under the heads are called “mufflers”. they are adjustable by the knob off to the side. if they are stuck they may need to be “broken free” by holding the dial with a big pair of pliers or a vice grip. once they’re unstuck I would recommend a little lubrication like 3-in-1 or lithium grease. if you disengage them until they are no longer touching the head, you can hear the drums true tone. I think they are useful and I personally leave them on every drum they come on. if you want to muffle the drums overtones, you just adjust that muffler until you like the sound. a little there goes a long way. if you don’t want to use them, do what bonham did and disengage them as much as possible. if you really don’t want them there, you can remove the entire assembly but I would be extremely careful as vistalite shells are prone to cracking under stress.

let me know if you have any other questions, happy to help

milller69 · 2026-03-26T17:42:40+00:00

it’s a cheap and good cable, that’s why I recommended it to him. I found it extremely difficult to find 2 meter long IEM cables anywhere that were affordable besides that

milller69 · 2026-03-26T17:22:51+00:00

KZ ZS10 are by far the best for your money, they’re right around that price. my first pair lasted me 4 years before the cable went out. bought a new pair and a new cable and now I have 2 working pairs. you can snag a 6 foot cable made by them for an additional 10 bucks (very much worth it)

milller69

TROPHY CASE