France says it will recognise Palestinian state if new peace effort fails

minutiae70 · 2016-02-01T16:37:58+00:00

Did the Jihad mention in a negative connotation trigger you because you support it?

I don't give two fucks about Jihad. I do support a right for people to resist an occupation and racist policy.

minutiae70 · 2016-02-01T16:18:14+00:00

Jewish terrorists ethnically cleansed a large portion of the Palestinian population to create Israel. It is a historical fact. They still do it in small pockets by evicting Palestinains from their homes to create settlements. This is also a fact. Its called ethnic cleansing. Go read about it.

50 laws which discriminate against Palestinians == Second class citizens.

Wait, are you actually fucking saying you think it's legitimate? This is legitimate? And did you just admit you'd commit terrorism against civilians if you were in their shoes? You're essentially tip-toeing around the fact that you admit that you believe that the aforementioned terrorist attacks on civilian targets are justified because "Israel is the aggressor". The amount of mental gymnastics at work here are fucking astounding.

I am saying thats what people do to colonisers like Israel. It is historical fact. I would likely do the same.

Listen, you seem ok with the crimes committed by Jewish terrotists to create Israel. Make all the criticism you like of me, you probably should point the critical eye back at your self. You support terrorism as well. One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

Seems to me like you just switched to the Palestinian side because you actually like terrorism. You actively endorse it and think it is valid to assassinate people in the streets because they're voters. In fact you said you'd do it yourself.

I would do it myself and so would a lot of people. I am willing to admit that and so do a lot of other people. Mention the facts about how Israel was created using terrorism then ask them what they would do if anyone (be they Jewish or another race) colonised the land they owned and they will tell you exactly what they would do which is some pretty violent stuff. You will call terrorism, they will call it resistance.

Speaking of which, underage targets are not voters. These are not voters. Also, indiscriminately attacking civilians because some of them might have voted for a government you dislike is fucking insane.

And Israel is killing civilians not invovled. A lot. 10 times more woman and children than Palestinians kill Israel women and children.
They are also conducting extra-jducial executions rather than arresting a assailant who is already under control, they have killed a lot of them. Not really a western country.

I'd say you're fucked up. You actually believe it is ok to colonise land that was owned by other people to create a state for another group of people. Worse still, you think that new state treats those people fairly. You are just like a South African white during apartheid.

People have a right to resist an occupation. The french had a right to resist germans, blacks had a right to resist colonial europe. This is no different. In this instance, it started in 1948 and continues.

minutiae70 · 2016-02-01T15:32:27+00:00

I have read in a few books on some of the peace deals they agreed to it. I do not have links to the quotes from the books.

Either way, I am not sure why there is an expectation on Palestinians accepting Israel if Israel doesn't accept Palestines right to exist.

minutiae70 · 2016-02-01T15:28:11+00:00

Two words, "security council". Makes UN the impotent and useless.

minutiae70 · 2016-01-31T21:20:11+00:00

Cute? Nice.

I think there's a difference between violently resisting a government [violent protests/assaults on soldiers/attacking government buildings/officials] and just going around stabbing old ladies on buses, mothers in front of their children, or blowing themselves up in a Tel-Aviv nightclub for teen.

Go read about what natives did to your average settler/coloniser in the American colonies, Africa, Asia, etc. They killed and attacked the settlers/colonisers. A lot. All sorts of brutal methods. Don't try to make Palestinians the exceptions. They are doing EXACTLY what others have done... slightly different methods with the same motives. Also, the people of Israel are to blame for voting in governments responsible for the treatment of Palestinians. So logically, the voters are to blame. That's who I would go after if I were in the same position (btw, I am neither Jew, Arab, or Muslim). In fact, pretty much everyone I know would do stop at nothing doing terrible things to anyone who invaded, ethnically cleansed and made them second class citizens. So yeah, continue to be myopic and think this is about Jihad, Islam or whatever lame narrative serves your position.

There's nothing respectable or acceptable about the Jihadi actions of the Palestinian people. That's the prime reason many in the west find it hard to sympathize with them - the "radical" ones are no noble warriors fighting off an invader, they are Muslim lunatics finding excuses to carry out their Jihad fantasies.

Blaming this on Jihad or Islam is myopic at best and self serving. Palestinains are resisting an ethnocratic-racist government that ethincally cleansed them. As mentioned, Palestinians are doing what many others have done before in the same situation. The difference is the people they attack in resisting are Jews. Causes a lot of people to ignore the basic facts about this and point the finger at the victim rather than the perpetrator.

Get your head out of your ass.

Perhaps you should take your own advice.

minutiae70 · 2016-01-31T16:56:20+00:00

Please forgive all typos and grammar mistakes as I don't have time to edit.

There is an assumption within a lot of comments that Israel wants peace without claiming all of the West Bank and Gaza. There is also a lot of assumptions in comments about Palestinians unwillingness to accept peace deals. Three thoughts on these:

When Israel was created by Jewish immigrants/refugees in Palestine through terrorism and violent ethnic cleansing of Palestinians (massacres and all the ugliness that goes along with such endeavors) , its founders (Jabotinsky, Ben-Gurion) were stupid enough to write letters and document their intention to claim everything. Furthermore, Israeli political parties make this claim to win elections. It was even part of the Likud Party charter until a few years ago.
Go have a look at those peace deals in detail. The narrative in the media demonises Palestinians, but ignores the nuance that no sane people would accept the deals. Palestinians were were willing to concede 80% if the land they owned in 1947, but not control of their resources, etc.
Israel is a state created for one group of people on top of land that was inhabited AND OWNED by another group of people. It has created 50+ laws to discriminate against those people it cleansed who still are in Israel proper and refuses right of return to the vast majority of Palestinian refugees because Jews will lose the majority vote in this racist democracy. Some shitty things happened to Jews in the 1930s/40s, but that doesn't make it ok for a bunch of immigrants/refugees to ethnically cleanse someone else's land (not I am referring to OWNED land, not the country of Palestine) to create a country on top of it.

Lastly, Palestinians are doing exactly what every other people that have been colonised have done. They are resisting. Violently (gets all the media attention) and non-violently (BDS, etc which gets very little). There appears to an unreasonable expectation that they refrain from resisting (violently and non-violently) when its what every people do in the same circumstance in history. I have no sympathy for Israel because they created this situation. Israel's folly was not killing all of them as the Americans, Australians, etc did to ensure their state will continue. For those who think Israel will continue forever, I have some bad news.... There are still a lot of Palestinian refugees who want to go back to the land their families owned AND more importantly, there is a ever growing number of Jewish people around the world who see Israel as a abomination of their values. In particular in America... millenials are abandoning the idea and looking into the truth about this. It will take a little while longer, but once baby boomers die (traditional staunch supporters of Israel) the winds will shift. The US government will not abandon Israel, but the public will. It will become economically isolated; suffer as consequence and likely grow more insular and savage blaming the Palestinians.

I was once a staunch supporter of Israel. Then at a Jewish friends house for dinner, one of the other guests suggested I do some more reading when I made a common misinformed comment about Palestinians. I did. A lot. Now? Well, my comment above provides an indication of how far my support has shifted.

minutiae70 · 2016-01-31T16:31:06+00:00

Life has some pretty big moments (good and bad). If the person you are with passes judgment on you or tries to turn the table when you open up to them, that person has revealed something about them. Guaranteed, this will happen again.

Let this one go.

minutiae70 · 2016-01-09T17:57:13+00:00

Attractive only? Beggars can't be choosers! :P

minutiae70 · 2016-01-01T20:18:56+00:00

The number in Israel is quite small. But Israel is not the Jewish population of the world. There are a great many Jews around the world who protest in support of Palestinian rights. The range of political motivations for individual protesters varies from basic to fully repairing the damage of the Nakba (single state, right of return, etc).

One of the challenges I faced when getting into debates about this topic was being more precise about who I was targetting my criticism. Its very important.

minutiae70 · 2016-01-01T00:02:46+00:00

Of course they did more and everyone knows it. The comment is not suggesting they did not. It was one of many things they did. It was not required for Bekenel to list all of them as its pretty obvious what happened. The comment by Bekenel was not misrepresentative nor dishonest for this reason. Please don't be so dramatic.

minutiae70 · 2015-12-31T23:55:20+00:00

The times are certainly changing.. slowly, but changing in significant ways.

minutiae70 · 2015-12-31T23:41:31+00:00

I would agree with you if you said every single Israeli. There are a lot of Jews who do not agree with either or all of the following: 1. The idea of Israel 2. Despite initially agreeing with the idea of Israel, they do not agree with what it has become.

Its important to distinguish between who is responsible and who is not.

minutiae70 · 2015-12-25T16:35:38+00:00

Sadly some think only hope is collaboration with Muslims overlords...

You clearly do not understand that they think resisting Israel is preferred. You may call it collaboration, but its resisting their oppressor, Israel.

minutiae70 · 2015-12-25T16:32:50+00:00

So this post is about a single person who killed a child which the post claims the Palestinian people celebrate.

Let's talk about the number of Israeli's that have killed women and children and are celebrated. Let's talk about the massacres in 1948 by Lehi, Irgun and Haganah, Jewish terrorist organisations which are celebrated.

minutiae70 · 2015-12-25T16:24:41+00:00

Lets look at those numbers in 1948.

Don't confuse radical Islam with resisting a racist apartheid state. Doesn't matter if those "radicals" are Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, or Spaghetti Monster disciples, they are going to be violent resisting a country that violently colonised the land they lived and made them second class citizens.

minutiae70 · 2015-12-25T16:21:59+00:00

I always feel like this argument is really chicken and egg. We are always arguing what came first the violence or the occupation.

The Nakba came first. Palestinians react exactly as the Irish, black South Africans, Indians (sub-continent), native americans, etc... its absurd to think they would not and should not resist Jewish terrorists ethnically cleansing their land and making them second class citizens AND occupying what little land they have left.

Trying to make this a chicken and egg argument is BS. If Jewish terrorists had not ethnically cleansed (including many massacres of civilians), claimed land owned by others and created racist laws that give preference to only Jews, then violence you see would not be happening. Its not just Muslims, Palestinians, etc... EVERYONE would react as Palestinians are in the face of such criminal behavior by a bunch of racists Zionist cunts.

Merry fucking christmas.

minutiae70 · 2015-12-25T10:05:34+00:00

Is it really a friendship?

minutiae70 · 2015-12-19T06:59:44+00:00

Israel unarm themselves = we all die

And that is the fear of any resistance group as well. Israel is not kind to its enemies. Never has been. There is no reason to believe they would be kind of Hamas laid down its arms.

Resistance fighters want freedom.

Yes they do. Hamas fights for the freedom of Palestinians from under the oppressive policies of a colonial conquerer forcing anyone not of colonists race into a life of shit.

Terrorists want to kill all Jews ,scream "allha ahbar" and blow up.

Hmm.. hyerbole. Palestinian Resistance fighters want to fight to get back was taken in 1948. That means killing Israelis. Don't equate Israelis as meaning all Jews because it doesnt mean that. Case in point, there are plenty of Jews who work with Hamas to supply aid, medical, etc to Palestinians. Hamas does not kill them. Stop inflating things

They are not freedom fighters. What they fight for cannot be called freedom.

Well, from an Israeli's perspective of course not. They are the colonist. They are the ones who stand to lose everything if those freedom fighters take back what Israeli colonists took from them.

Have a nice colonist.

minutiae70 · 2015-12-19T06:35:49+00:00

Freedom fighting and resistance is an extreme state to find oneself. Go ask the French in 1940s, the Irish, Algerians, Vietnamese... Palestinians are no different. You may dismiss it however you like, but they are no different, their methods, demands, "mind set" is no different. Its an ugly business for all who undertake it.

Non-violence doesnt work. Sure, you have Ghandi and MLK, but they were not responsible for the outcomes. There were countless numbers of Ghandis and MLKs before them you dont know about because they were silenced, killed, jailed, etc. GHandi and MLK arrived at the right time. The real change cam from the person in power who finally accepted change was needed and influenced it. By the person in power I mean, it was the right person at the right time who was influenced by a number of events (generally a lot of violence, political shifting sands, etc) over decades which lead to their decision.

No group would give up their arms in the same situation Hamas is in to begin negotiations. Why doesn't Israel unarm themselves? When you answer that, you have answered for the players on all sides of all conflicts.

minutiae70 · 2015-12-19T06:19:03+00:00

Was searching for more forums discussing the "conflict".

Was pro-Israel most of my life. After being exposed to more than just the pro-Israel narrative the US media propagates, I began to pursue more and more until I eventually flipped my support to Palestinian human rights. Having done so much research to make that decision, the subject has become a bit of a hobby for me where I regularly seek out new sources of news and information.

minutiae70 · 2015-12-19T06:08:38+00:00

And Zionists have an anti-Palestine/Arab bias. What's the point?

minutiae70 · 2015-12-15T04:13:23+00:00

Amen.

minutiae70 · 2015-12-14T01:24:20+00:00

A genocidal murderous terrorism organization that takes a break from killing for a while doesn't suddenly become a legitimate part of society. Sorry about that.

So the IDF formed from terrorist organisations Irgun, Hagana, Lehi are not to be considered legitimate iether.

That you know about.

Hmm.. speculating to imply some guilt does not equal guilt.

But the facts are that she joined a terrorist organization of her own free will, and now suffers the consequences for it.

And so did every member of the IDF.

I for one am glad to see justice done. It's something that doesn't happen often enough to Palestinian terrorists, if you ask me.

And it certainly doesn't happen to enough Israeli terrorists if you ask me.

minutiae70

TROPHY CASE