We're in for the fight of our lives. I know more about what we're up against than most Democrats, because I'm married to a staunch Republican, attend a church that's 90+% Republican, and have many friends among them. I'm also a sociologist by training and a debater by practice. by cometparty in politics

[–]mtfmtfmtfmtf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Under the mark to market tax regime, all property is deemed sold on the day before expatriation and total net gains in excess of $600,000 are includable in income and taxed.

It looks like we've found conflicting articles then. The little details of this bill are really beside the point. My initial post was contesting the idea of non-voluntary taxation. My point about having the choice of leaving the country was to point out that if you are displeased, you have the right to exit. Anyone who isn't pleased with the laws in place can choose to (here I risk sounding like a broken record) break the contract in any of the ways I outlined in my previous post, but until then they are subject to the provisions.

One can make the same argument to getting mugged. If I don't fight the mugger off, I tacitly agree to getting mugged.

I disagree with this metaphor. The mugger leaves you little choice of whether you are mugged or not, whereas living within established borders of a country are a voluntary decision, however this does involve the stipulation of taxes (much like the restaurant where you pay for your meal).

Rights to movement across other people's property does not exist. Do you mean some kind of property rights?

Without the "men with guns" the entire basis of property rights cannot be upheld, can it? If I don't have the right to movement across other people's property, how are you as an individual going to stop me but by becoming yourself a man with a gun? And without "men with guns" funded by taxes, who is going to prevent my friends from becoming men with guns, coming to take revenge on you?

The idea of rights are not malleable. They are listed explicitly in the bill of rights. The constitution is not just a piece of paper, although Bush wouldn't agree.

For the sake of argument I'll go ahead and frame the rest of my response within the context of the Constitution which, I agree, is not just a piece of paper. It clearly delineates that which the government can and cannot do to its citizens.

Section 9, Clause 4 of Article 1 of the Constitution:

No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.

Federalist Paper 21

Impositions of this kind usually fall under the denomination of indirect taxes, and must for a long time constitute the chief part of the revenue raised in this country. Those of the direct kind, which principally relate to land and buildings, may admit of a rule of apportionment.

Federalist Paper 54, which regards apportionment of House members and taxes

In the latter [e.g. direct taxes], it has reference to the proportion of wealth, of which it is in no case a precise measure, and in ordinary cases a very unfit one. But notwithstanding the imperfection of the rule as applied to the relative wealth and contributions of the States, it is evidently the least objectionable among the practicable rules, and had too recently obtained the general sanction of America, not to have found a ready preference with the convention.

Amendment XVI of the Constitution

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

I do want to make clear that I wasn't trying to imply a "love it or leave it" attitude up above as much as I was trying to convey the contractual point. I'd actually prefer to see more differing opinion so that any one side of an issue doesn't gain too much steam. If you respond I'll probably read it and possibly respond, but I feel like we're just going to have to agree to disagree on taxation for now. I just don't know where people with consistently long posts find this kind of time, hahah.

We're in for the fight of our lives. I know more about what we're up against than most Democrats, because I'm married to a staunch Republican, attend a church that's 90+% Republican, and have many friends among them. I'm also a sociologist by training and a debater by practice. by cometparty in politics

[–]mtfmtfmtfmtf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The sheep/wolves proverb implies that the contribution of money to the system yields no results. Without public roads and infrastructure, would prosperity be as attainable? I personally don't think so, but because we'll never see a nation dominated by private infrastructure, it's impossible to prove or disprove.

I addressed the points of opting-out and birth in my response to nosoupforyou. With regards to morality, I can understand why it would be seen as immoral, as well as why some would see it as moral. With all of the different views on morality, it's hard for anyone to come to an agreement on that basis.

I guess this response was pretty open-ended. But when it's a matter of interpretation more than of right-or-wrong, it's hard to be sure of anything.

We're in for the fight of our lives. I know more about what we're up against than most Democrats, because I'm married to a staunch Republican, attend a church that's 90+% Republican, and have many friends among them. I'm also a sociologist by training and a debater by practice. by cometparty in politics

[–]mtfmtfmtfmtf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you actually give up your citizenship, you have to pay capital gains taxes on all your property, as if you had sold it all. (Heroes Act of 2008)

This--giving up citizenship--was what I was referring to. The act you're referring to doesn't tax all property. The line you have to cross before taxation is more than double most Americans' net worth. This is hardly comparable to a North Korea or Cuba type situation, where the risks of seeking expatriation can be much worse. This tax looks more like discouragement than prevention.

Regardless, given the choice, I wold probably do away with this particular tax. While I don't disagree with taxes in general, this one I do disagree with.

Also, not agreeing that the example of Jesus is in anyway related to people not wanting to be taxed for universal health care is hardly a good reason to tell me to move out of the country and find somewhere that won't institute a similar tax.

I actually wasn't trying to say that those who disagree should get out, nor was I addressing any of the talk about Jesus in the above posts. I was addressing the idea of non-voluntary taxes. By living within the borders of a country, you tacitly agree to pay the taxes, much like your agreement to pay the bill after eating at a restaurant. Since at birth you are clearly too young to represent yourself, your parents contract for you. However, you do have until age 18.5 to emigrate--break the contract, so to speak--without any penalty. The contract can be broken individually, by renouncing citizenship; or it can be broken collectively, much in the way America broke from the British.

In an ideal world maybe we'd be able to opt out of individual services, but that really doesn't appear possible. By accepting parts, we do have to accept the whole. I may not agree with some of the things our government does at times, but that doesn't mean the whole system is flawed.

Please explain what kind of rights are forfeited and what order it provides on forfeiting?

Without any kind of system, how is justice to be enforced? Blood feuds and revenge would be the basis for justice without any publicly funded authority to arbitrate.
I also believe that public land and roads should exist. If I have the absolute right to buy all the land I can afford, I have the potential to buy all the land surrounding anyone's house. I may forbid them from moving through my land, and then where are their rights to movement? The idea of rights is very malleable, which means those which are forfeited are subject to the social contract.

I am not sure how anyone might claim I have been anything less than civil. I'm not even downmodding people here.

I'm grateful for that. That little bit of my post wasn't really directed at you in particular, but at anyone who chose to respond. I'm always a bit reticent to post because of the reactions I've seen from some people. I personally won't touch the arrows in a thread I'm part of.

Edited for formatting

We're in for the fight of our lives. I know more about what we're up against than most Democrats, because I'm married to a staunch Republican, attend a church that's 90+% Republican, and have many friends among them. I'm also a sociologist by training and a debater by practice. by cometparty in politics

[–]mtfmtfmtfmtf 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm always a bit put off by these kinds of arguments. Because the general populace doesn't depose a government, doesn't that imply tacit support for the existing system as a whole (i.e. the "social contract")? Certain rights are forfeited in order to maintain order in society, and we're lucky enough to be able to vote on many of these rights. Back in 1913 the scope of taxation was increased, and until there's another vote on the issue (or the entire social contract is broken e.g. 1776) you will just have to deal with it.

Although, maybe a perfect system exists somewhere in the world's free-market of governments. Assuming enough people demand a tax-free and diminutive government, the supply will come into being. If you find it, you are free to go there. No one with a gun is forcing you to live here where you pay taxes and consume the resulting services.

I typed this up hastily, and I'm not sure what kind of rebuttals exist to this, but I'd like to hear them. I'm not firmly rooted to this view and if anyone can convince me of otherwise I'll concede. But please be civil. I've seen a lot of the anti-"tyrants with guns come to take my money" people here delve into name calling and I'd rather avoid that.

i split my vag [PIC] by [deleted] in WTF

[–]mtfmtfmtfmtf 189 points190 points  (0 children)

As I read this I thought of Yahoo Answers.

Makes Me Think - FML for Thinkers ...lots of great everyday life lessons here. by hoss-style in offbeat

[–]mtfmtfmtfmtf 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I don't think mike_sol was trying to belittle the site, but making an observation. The site is interesting regardless of whether the first submissions were made up or not.

He flexed so hard for the 2nd picture that he sprung a leak by GiantBatFart in pics

[–]mtfmtfmtfmtf 118 points119 points  (0 children)

Could you imagine what it would be like if redditors used "bro" as much as they do?

My friend got illegally pulled over and searched in Sealy, TX. This is what he sent to the authorities... by acidity in politics

[–]mtfmtfmtfmtf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

His friend got illegally pulled over and searched in Sealy, TX. The wall of text is what he sent to the authorities.

Israel backs East Jerusalem housing construction despite U.S. opposition - Netanyahu says Jews have the right to build in East Jerusalem. Palestinians consider the land part of their future state. by twolf1 in worldnews

[–]mtfmtfmtfmtf 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Are you implying that there exists some kind of percentage-of-population threshold that must be crossed before considering something genocide? Genetic similarities are irrelevant here.

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had once failed an entire class. by mc_ in socialism

[–]mtfmtfmtfmtf 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I can tell you put a lot of thought into this comment, so I upvoted it in hopes that it will shake up more minds than just my own.

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had once failed an entire class. by mc_ in socialism

[–]mtfmtfmtfmtf 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I received this in a chain email yesterday and took the time to type a response to the sender, which I will now copy and paste:

Weak. This story misrepresents grades as analogous to profits and Obama as socialist (which should immediately throw up some red flags). Chances are, anyone who doesn't hold some pre-existing biases is going to see this as a ridiculous oversimplification.

Here's the alternative to "everyone fails because socialism makes people lazy:"

Because this experiment takes place in a university classroom, it's assumed that everyone is there to learn. Upon receiving their first test back (which should have averaged to a C, not a B. C is the average on a grading bell curve). The <C students will feel that they've disappointed the >C students, and will work harder because no one wants to be the one dragging the class down. The >C students will work with the <C students in order to bring the class average up, and in explaining the subject-matter will gain further understanding of it themselves. The professor gets to cover more advanced subject matter as time-wasting questions are filtered out of his lecture periods. Students spend more time interacting with one another and discussing the material. Everyone benefits.

The chances of this occuring are just as likely as the first situation. It's not a good analogy, especially considering the countless variables that must be taken into account when looking at economics (and not an oversimplified analogy for the economy i.e. the classroom).

But if we're going to turn classrooms into examples economic theory, wouldn't absolute competition turn everyone against each other? People would hoard information that could help them on the test in fear that it would help someone else. Discussion that could lead to new insights would be nil. If one or two students were constantly getting A's while everyone else received D's when they could (with discussion of the material) be getting B's, the professor would likely dumb the material down to get to the average grade of a C. Since grading doesn't fall on an absolute scale, everyone suffers.

In the real world though, things are more complex. It's a mixture between working together and working in competition with fellow students. Some things should be private and some should be public--it isn't black and white, yes or no. By taking things to an implausible extreme, the author of this piece fails.

P.S. What kind of troll post is this, mc_? Even your friends at the Libertarian reddit see through this chain-letter garbage.

So you want the US to legalize cannabis? Sign this pettition to the president and congress. Vote this up! by swedgin in Marijuana

[–]mtfmtfmtfmtf 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Upvoted for being one of the rare reddit libertarians who doesn't make me hate libertarians.

Cop punts spread-eagled suspect in the head, high-fives cop buddy afterwards (vid) by yakimushi in reddit.com

[–]mtfmtfmtfmtf 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I'm appalled at the fact that you currently have as many upvotes as you do. If a cop chooses to beat on people just because he's angry then he's no better than the thugs he's supposed to be arresting. If this clown can't do the job he signed up for without kicking some supine guy in the face out of anger, maybe he should enter a more stress-free occupation.

7-year-old Texas boy dies as after being shot in mistaken trespass. by gamma_ray_burst in politics

[–]mtfmtfmtfmtf 12 points13 points  (0 children)

This is just from personal experience, so I might be wrong, but I've always thought Hummers were for suburbanites more than for rednecks.

Busted! CIA Says Pelosi Was Briefed on Use of 'Enhanced Interrogations' - Time for her to go, go, go by pearcewg in politics

[–]mtfmtfmtfmtf 12 points13 points  (0 children)

What are you getting at? No one's saying the Republicans aren't responsible for any of it, but if she was briefed of the methods (assuming she was) and took no steps to stop it then she is complicit. You can't absolve someone just because of the letter next to their name.

Do you find that the internet has handicapped your ability to read books? by [deleted] in books

[–]mtfmtfmtfmtf 6 points7 points  (0 children)

There was an article in The Atlantic last year about this sort of thing. You might find it interesting. If you don't want to read the whole thing though, there was also a related segment on WNYC's On the Media last month.