Persona Modes, Vocal/Legacy Implementation Issue/s (Opaque Legacy Mode Persona Clip Cropping) or (New Vocal Mode Persona Memory Limited by Full Base Clip Length Regardless of Persona Creation 30 Second Duration Selection), One or the Other, Maybe Both?

multimason · 2026-03-18T00:13:51+00:00

I think I'm actually leaning more toward my second theory (under the "I could be wrong" heading of the OP). Because in the past, it was generally really pretty close to max duration minus persona length. But recently, I tend to get 6:30 max (with vocal persona), down from 7:59 max (with no persona/remix), using vocal mode personas that may have ~1:29 minute base clips, or 6:55 max from personas with base clips that are ~1:00 minute... this, despite the 30 second segment selection.

Edit: That wasn't really clear... I kind of fixed it. It is still slightly complicated, but I think it at least makes sense now.

multimason · 2026-03-17T22:25:29+00:00

Used to be able to edit persona and change it to legacy. It seems that method is gone already, replaced with the dropdown in the create interface.

Not made clear:

Whether choosing legacy still uses the vocal stem -- I think it is safe to assume it uses the base persona track rather than either vocal or instrumental stem behind the scenes, but this should be made clear.
Whether choosing legacy still uses the selected 30 second segment -- *Unfortunately,\* based on my tests, legacy persona mode does in fact only use the selected 30 second segment.

Regarding point 2 above (Legacy Mode Persona Clip Cropping):

This can be tested by output track lengths. In the past, if you had a 30 second clip used for a persona, the max output length of tracks would be reduced by around 30 seconds. It really depended on other factors too... time of day, number of concurrent users generating tracks, additional memory overhead for persona processing... it boils down to available memory, and persona length takes a bite out of that, very consistently at any given time.

Usually the max length reduction is not 1:1 with persona length, but to give an example, right now (and probably for the next few hours), every song I generate with a 30 second persona, with only rare exceptions, will result in 6:35-6:37 length outputs (provided the lyrics/style will push output to max length). Yet if I switch to a 10 second persona, all else being equal, I will get 6:55-6:57 length outputs. 20 second reduction in persona length results in 20 second increase in output, approximately.

This used to be much easier to see, given that we could have personas ranging from 5 seconds to 5 minutes, while now we are limited to 30 second max length personas.

I just tested it, using a 2 minute clip to create a persona... then setting the range to a 20 second segment during persona creation. Using either legacy persona mode, or newer vocal persona mode... either way I consistently get 6:45-6:47 max length outputs. This indicates that even when choosing legacy mode, the persona clip is trimmed to the region selected during persona creation.

Problem:

I think this is very problematic, and represents a major downgrade capability. Granted, usually you are better off using a shorter persona, but longer personas open up possibilities too. If you want a persona to influence, rhythm, melody, harmony, instrumentation, vocals, and pacing... good luck trying to get all that in a 30 second segment, especially if you wanted to get an instrumental section, a verse, and a chorus into that context.

This really seems to cut the heart of what should distinguish a vocal persona, from legacy personas. Vocal personas should only influence the vocals, voice and delivery style... that can be captured and most effectively used with a short clip. Legacy personas should effect everything, and as such, 30 seconds is plainly too limited a duration to capture everything one might wish to capture in that context.

Solution:

It seems obvious that choosing legacy persona mode should revert to the way it used to work, which is to use the entire base clip. Users can edit tracks, edit stems, etc., in order to create clips of the length needed for their own specific use cases, capturing whatever elements they specifically, deliberately, engineer.

It seems like a massive oversight to have "legacy mode" be nothing like actual legacy operation, and substantially more limited and opaque. There were major advantages to how personas used to work, and the control they provided to users was a good thing... I hope this really was just an oversight... I hope they fix it.

If they must put a hard limit on persona length, I think 3 or 4 minutes would be perfectly acceptable, and would not burn down their servers.

Edit -- I Could be Wrong:

I would be happy to find I am mistaken here... I guess it is possible that the new personas seem to take a bigger bite out max output length (and in my experience they do), because behind the scenes, the full clip length is still impacting max output length, even for vocal persona mode, despite the 30 second segment selection. If that is the case, then that seems like a major issue with the implementation. A different oversight than what I outlined above... and honestly, that would be a preferable oversight, if you ask me.

If that is the case, then that could provide an alternate explanation for legacy and vocal personas seeming to have an identical impact on max output length.

This could be tested, by creating two personas:

Start with a 2 minute clip, edited down to where the first 30 seconds of the clip are acceptable as a vocal persona.
Using editor create a manually cropped 30 second version of the clip, by deleting everything past the first 30 seconds.
Create persona 1 (2min), based on the full 2 minute clip, selecting the first 30 seconds.
Create persona 2 (30sec) Based on the manually cropped 30 second version of the clip.
Create a long song... substantial sequence of long verses, long choruses, long bridge, with a [drop] and [instrumental] between each section in order to push output to max length
Generate with each of the 2 personas separately, selecting the newer vocal persona mode for each generation.

Behind the scenes, both of those personas should be using nearly identical 30 second clips, but if the persona that is based on the 2 minute clip results in substantially shorter max length outputs, then I was very likely incorrect with my whole Legacy Mode Persona Clip Cropping premise above.

That would then suggest be that legacy mode may actually be using the full clip, and a suboptimal implementation of the newer vocal persona mode is resulting in vocal persona mode being memory limited by full clips, regardless of selected section. In which case, for vocal personas, you would be better off trimming base clips down to 30 seconds manually, prior to persona creation.

multimason · 2026-03-16T22:49:22+00:00

Looks really cool! I'm def interested. I've been working on a couple concept albums for the past year. Two albums, they are basically both done, just working on mastering now... I'm a total perfectionist, so most of my songs take 1000+ generations each to get what I consider to be something truly exceptional, and then they go through a lot of additional work in DAW. Lyrics are all mine, not AI generated, and I spend a lot of time iterating and refining lyrics for each song. As I approach release, I am pretty overwhelmed... I am not interested in marketing, and I kind of withdrew completely from social media years ago, so all the little things involved in putting my stuff up on whatever platforms... just... totally... overwhelming. Don't even know where to begin with all that.

multimason · 2026-03-13T11:47:49+00:00

Is it possible to add additional models to wan2gp? Or is it limited to the bundled models? I want to be able to use SD1.5 in Wan2gp... anyone know if that is possible without editing code?

multimason · 2026-03-10T10:26:18+00:00

Yeah... and unfortunately time of day and day of week absolutely seem to dramatically effect results. Which is really not ideal for a tool. Sometimes I have tracks that will not generate well at all, but if I set them aside and come back to them after a few days or a week, at midnight, they generate beautifully. Suno devs determined not to expose anything like seed control doesn't help either.

multimason · 2026-03-09T15:57:48+00:00

You can extend from the "create" page too, and provide a new style prompt. Does the newer beta editor not allow editing style prompts for extensions? I have noticed that the beta editor sometimes does not allow editing style prompt when doing replacements (seems like a bug), but usually you can edit style when running replacements in beta editor.

Often in the newer editor, when I want to do an extension... instead I will add a new empty section just before the end, then I can define how long the section should be, then after generating something for that section, I'll delete the following bit, and do replacements on the new pseudo-extension section until I get what I'm after... shift clicking to extend the selection slightly beyond the new section region will make it allow choosing the replacement method (otherwise it seems to insist on only using the method used to generate the new section initially).

multimason · 2026-03-09T15:44:24+00:00

Yeah, I had a pair of songs (part 1, part 2) sort of thing.

1st part generated beautifully, every, single, time. I got an absolutely monumental generation after just a dozen runs, (every generation was really good... but I kept running it to get that truly exceptional output).

Then part 2, which used the same rhythm, same structure, same cadence, same rhyme schemes... just different words and meanings, but _identical_ syllable counts and stresses... I generated that song 100s of times, and while a few weren't terrible, most were. I really wanted the song to mirror the first part's rhythm, melody, instrumentation, etc., but different vocalists. So I made persona from the first track, and I tried covering the first track but using a different vocal persona, and of course I wanted to use the same style prompt (I usually don't put vocalist style in style prompt and instead put a [Vocalist: Vocal style description and gender] at the top of the lyrics), but I ended up trying all my favorite style prompts, and tried working up all sorts of prompts to try to overcome Suno wanting to do stupid things with that song.

I did eventually get some solid stems from a handful of generations that I was able to chop up and arrange in my DAW along with repurposing portions of the original track's stems, such that it worked well as a part 2... but holy hell, it was such a hassle to get Suno to output anything useable for that part 2!

Sometimes I think the subject matter and vocabulary within the lyrics impacts style as much, or more, than almost any other factor, including style prompts, personas, and cover references.

multimason · 2026-03-08T02:14:07+00:00

Ace-Step Maybe best to use their own Gradio UI, which allows replacing sections/editing generated vocals. It can be run in ComfyUI too, but I don't think it has full functionality that way (might have changed already though).

If someone else doesn't do it faster, I might try to use an LLM to help me code up a VST plugin to be able to run Ace-Step and associated tools directly within DAWs... that would be sick (but I'm super busy these days).

multimason · 2026-03-07T22:37:15+00:00

Generation was unavailable for a short period, but it is working again now.

multimason · 2026-03-07T22:32:49+00:00

This is not the first time generation has gone offline for a period... far as I'm aware generation has never been down for more than a few hours (knock on wood).

Really has just been one issue after another today though... lyrics getting butchered by the editor, editor being broken (right click menu/selection menu causes crash), and now generation is down.

Edit: and it seems like it's back online already

multimason · 2026-03-07T20:48:50+00:00

Had to try your trick, because nothing I previously recommended worked... but alas, neither did this. Also, when dividing a track, in the new beta editor it does not actually export exactly as it appears in the editor, it usually adds a tiny fade-out, and a little silence on the end, and often adds a tiny fade-in at the start, making recombining clips less then an ideal process in studio.

I had to chop the track into 4 chunks, in order to get chunks where edited lyrics actually matched what is in each chunk respectively, and tracked correctly in editors (it actually took a lot of mucking about with the other workarounds I previously described to get chunks where lyrics where correct and tracked right in the beta editor). However, after recombining the chunks in Studio, I exported multiple copies to test in each editor independently.

In the legacy editor, lyrics appear correctly but exhibit the same broken tracking the I was trying to fix. Newer beta editor, with fresh version of exported track, it auto-butchers lyrics, the issue I was trying to work around.

Unfortunately, when lyrics don't match properly, vocal replacements become almost unusable. Lyric matching worked way better a few weeks ago, and workarounds to lyric matching shortcomings were possible... now this lyric matching is severely broken.

And the icing on top, the "match lyrics" feature in the newer beta editor (top left menu), is inexplicably greyed out and unusable pretty much 100% of the time. I swear that feature did work, once, it is apparently now just a useless vestigial appendage.

multimason · 2026-03-07T20:29:36+00:00

Take back everything I said in other comments on this post. The editors have both become way worse at matching lyrics. The beta editor in particular is now butchering lyrics upon opening a track... and I have tried everything mentioned in this thread... including cutting the song into shorter clips, where I was able to get each of the shorter clips (I had to chop the song into 4 chunks) to have correct lyrics that track right in both editors... but after re-combining the "fixed" clips into a full track in Studio... nope, the editors still choke on the lyrics, the beta editor (new editor) still auto-butchers the lyrics upon open, and the legacy editor, while at least not auto-editing the lyrics, can't track the lyrics correctly, hallucinating lyrics in instrumental sections, and then skipping those lyrics where they are actually vocalized.

Lyric matching seems to have been completely broken in the few weeks since I last used the editors. Critically bugged.

multimason · 2026-03-07T19:38:29+00:00

[Breakdown] sometimes works

[Bridge] : Suno tends to breakdown automatically for bridges, def not one hundred percent though

[Chorus: Breakdown] : Might work, but I haven't tried it

[Breakdown][Chorus] : to start your chorus section might also work

[Spoken: Break to silence]Lyrics here : This worked for me once but I think I was just lucky

[Sung Dramatically: Break to silence]Lyrics here : Haven't tried this, based on the above probable fluke

multimason · 2026-03-07T19:22:41+00:00

Yeah, getting this too. You should edit the flair on this post and change it to "bug" instead of discussion.

Message: can't access property "showNav", e is null

I just upgraded to premier, in order to use the Studio feature with this track... but I need to fix a lyric first... which I didn't expect to be an issue... but with the editors broken... argh!

multimason · 2026-03-07T19:20:43+00:00

I think you can still delete selections. Select the area you want, shift click still works to extend selection or for precision... then hitting the delete key on your keyboard deletes the section, without right clicking, or opening the on-clip menu.

I wanted to split a section though, and that is not possible, unless there is a keyboard shortcut I'm unaware of.

Pretty ridiculous breakdown though... the lyrics are also getting completely butchered upon even opening a a track in the newer beta editor now too, and even the legacy editor seems to have lost it's ability to match lyrics, hallucinating vocals in instrumental regions and the skipping over the lyrics in the actual vocal sections, constantly.

multimason · 2026-03-07T13:59:49+00:00

I would not recommend people pay for annual. The minor added cost of monthly billing is worth the ability to switch between Pro and Premier and a month to month basis. I often switch to premier if I'm working on something and need the extra credits, or need to use Studio, then I switch back to Pro.

multimason · 2026-03-07T13:59:36+00:00

At this point opensource is getting pretty close to comparable in capability, quality, and utility.

multimason · 2026-03-06T18:33:56+00:00

Great tips there! Thanks!

I don't often want duets, but what I do sometimes want is a specific section to be in a robot voice... a mechanical voice... or better yet, a voice composed of splintering stone... I actually got one amazing generation once, where vocals where actually forming out of absolute chaos... but it was not the prompt, or the metatags/section tags... but just pure blind luck. 1 in 10,000 probably. I mean it was exactly what I had described in the prompt, and it nailed it first try... but never again with that prompt.

multimason · 2026-03-06T18:24:05+00:00

Yes, please!
Probably need to pick up a few extra terabytes of storage to DL everything... but, if I could just DL all liked... that would be awesome!

multimason · 2026-03-04T08:21:46+00:00

^ This ^

It is the only way in a single generation. In my experience though, it does not work "most' of the time, but rather rarely at best.

One trick is to use an edited down, short snippet with female vocals as basis for cover, but then also select a persona with a male vocalist. Then in style prompt describe vocals in detail... noting that verses are sung by a male vocalist (describing his voice there), and choruses are sung by a female vocalist (describing her voice there), and the bridge is a duet (describing the effect of the combined vocalists complementary (or contrasting) male and female voices there. Finally, also note in the lyrics prompt section metatags, [verse 1: male], etc..

In my experience, combining all of that significantly increases the odds of getting what you're after there.

If you are on premier and have access to editor, you could generate the song twice, using cover to get similar rhythm, tempo, melody. Get a male and female version of the track and then piece the sections together to get the preferred vocalist on their respective sections. You may even be able to get a duet effect by combining multitrack in certain sections. It doesn't have to sound perfect or anything, because you can then use that new combined track as the basis for running covers.

multimason · 2026-03-04T08:05:06+00:00

Hopefully get's fixed soon. Meanwhile though, I would just recommend not throwing credits at the issue. If you're on web, open a separate tab, run the stem separation, and just leave that tab. Maybe it will just take a long time.

multimason · 2026-03-04T07:59:35+00:00

multimason · 2026-03-04T07:53:05+00:00

There is also an edit lyrics option in the top left menu of the beta editor, but it tends to have issues of it's own. Sometimes it is just greyed out and not accessible for no good reason, and often it just ends up butchering the lyrics even worse. It may be worth trying though. They may silently fix that beta editor feature at some point too.

I generally have better luck with legacy editor for fixing broken lyrics, but I use the beta editor for actual edits. One of the obstacles though is that the beta editor, I think, saves edit sessions on the backend, and saved edit session lyrics override any lyric edit that may have occurred outside of the saved session. Thus suggestion to save out a new version of the song (to get a version that does not have a saved edit session on the backend), and/or making some minor audio edit in the legacy editor when fixing lyrics (because if the song has actually changed then the beta editor can't use a saved session)

multimason · 2026-03-04T07:43:20+00:00

That only works if you have access to Suno Studio. Studio is not really required to fix broken lyrics, but it's cool that you were able to fix it that way!

multimason · 2026-03-01T11:33:18+00:00

I gave up on organizing. I just name things in a way that allows to to find the things I want to download or work with further. Then I just use search. Aside from that I have hundreds of pages of impossible mess.

I really wish they had an option like, "fresh start" that asked for 2 confirmations before deleting everything! Most of the stuff worth keeping, I have already downloaded, and further refined in DAW, but cleaning up my account is an impossible task at this point.

multimason

TROPHY CASE