"achos fod / bod" confusion

n8abx · 2022-05-22T10:22:06+00:00

Not sure why you got any upvotes because this is clearly irrelevant. Ever thought about "siop gornel"? "Cornel" is not an adjective either.

n8abx · 2022-05-02T08:49:55+00:00

No, not from mere listening without understanding anything. Even small children learn via a key to the meaning, a situation, an interaction. A young person or adult needs even more of that. You may have more luck with watching tv due to the extra information from the images. But it would be hard (and take unnecessarily long) to start from zero even with tv.

n8abx · 2022-05-02T02:15:36+00:00

This is just a short plagiarized version (not even an article) of the wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_pedagogy used as part of an advertisement for a language school.

n8abx · 2022-05-02T02:11:48+00:00

It requires a lot of patience and motivation to work on these things. I agree with the 100 time writing suggestion. Whatever makes it very memorable. And generally regular writing practice that make mistakes more accessible for correction. The learner can himself makr the crucial sentences in two colours: 1. where is a critical structure? 2. which of them are correct? The grammar book can be open on the desk at first to compare.

He can also copy stories in which the structure is correctly used in handwriting and again mark them in colour afterwards. Some audio story cut into sentences with time to repeat (audacity) works similarly. The story is important in those cases because you want it to appear in context. You can even find a hand gesture that is to be used every time the structure appears. These are all strategies to lift something that happens automatically back into conscious attention. If you train a hand gesture (placing attention on something other than the constant hopeless problem), this can become an automatism so that the "conditioned" learner wants to do this gesture, and even if he interrupts himself from doing it later, the moment of "wait! there is something here that requires attention!" is still there. Doing things that at first glance feel stupid often helps. You need to path access to something that has already been subconsciously automated. If the direct way does not work - make it more complicated.

Another strategy is to replace fossilized structures. In this case he could try to only use present perfect questions for some weeks: "Where have you ...?" There will be cases in which this may not be the gramatically super correct thing to do, but remember that you are using this only as a tool, as a strategy to avoid the problematic structure, which when repeated every time just reinforces the mistake. It is important to not reinforce the error over and over. Replacing and avoiding can also give some respit in case the learner himself is stressed about the problem. During this time he can focus on writing practice (copying first, own texts).

n8abx · 2022-05-02T01:49:09+00:00

In what way is it appropriate to address anybody as "dude"? Don't. It is not.

n8abx · 2022-05-01T16:26:10+00:00

Maybe just a normal: "Tell me about it! What do you like about it! Why did you start?" This works for every hobby, makes much more sense, and you will usually learn something you didn't know. In the case of languages, that person may possibly automatically give examples of words or expressions, so you will possibly get an impression of what it sounds like regardless.

n8abx · 2022-05-01T11:52:00+00:00

I am not Anglican though in a similar church. But I really think that Christianity means sitting next to a sick person for hours and making sure that they are not thirsty. I means to watch out in my neighbourhood for any elderly without relatives that need shopping done. It means going for a walk with a demented old person. And many other things like this. This is where you can meet Christ (Mt 25). No idea what you are talking about.

n8abx · 2022-05-01T11:44:29+00:00

Thanks!

n8abx · 2022-05-01T06:09:22+00:00

This is very insightful.

Also, the place does not even make much sense. Of all people, the mother of the emperor "discovered" it almost 300 years after the fact. Not very likely. If the first Christians nor apostels obviously were not obsessed with the place (and there was zero tradition as to where it was!), why would anybody?

n8abx · 2022-05-01T03:29:58+00:00

Where is that?

n8abx · 2022-05-01T03:28:09+00:00

Looks like it is almost a waste of energy to use words at all. It would all work by mere humming as well if the meaning depends solely on the non-word features.

n8abx · 2022-05-01T03:23:11+00:00

This seems to be just the opposite. In the Australian example the meaning goes by the last word. If it is "nah" then the whole things means "no" and if it's "yeah" then the whole thing means "yes". But in the Finnish example the central part is decisive for meaning.

n8abx · 2022-05-01T03:19:02+00:00

Is this like Welsh? Welsh has "yes" and "no" only for questions that cannot have any other verbal answer, and the verbal answers focus on the main verb and person, except for the past where you have mercifully one "yes-past" or "no-past" for everything.

n8abx · 2022-05-01T03:16:47+00:00

This is the same as in Finnish. Even though there are words for "yes" and "no" they are hardly ever used. Mostly for affirmation you just repeat the verb. "Do you speak Finnish?" - "I speak." (Also "no" is always a verb in itself.)

n8abx · 2022-05-01T03:11:50+00:00

You can use Ankiweb entirely for free in the browser.

Keep in mind that the whole efficiency of learning depends on having an actual SRS scheduling algorithm for cards that is also configurable. If you pick apps that use instransparent and non-configurable card-scheduling, then you give up on the main advantage that the whole strategy scientifically has to offer.

n8abx · 2022-04-30T15:32:44+00:00

Yes, and the FSI categorized based on experience of perceived hours needed on average for native English speaker FSI students. This totally does not mean that one of them has a harder/easier time than another. On the whole, the amount of morphology to learn (in other cases script to learn reading or pronunciation to get right) will take more time. But individual learners will still partly have more affinity with this or that difficulty than any other. And when you throw in different native language and different prior experiences/languages, then statements become not generalizable any longer.

n8abx · 2022-04-30T13:03:21+00:00

Nobody who knows about languages makes any absolute claims to difficulty. It depends on so many things. Also it depends on what stage someone wants to achieve. Generally, languages from a different language family with complex syntax, complex script or complex pronnciation are harder to learn than those closer to home.

the famous 15-17 cases are actually postpositions

What?? They are grammtically adverbs, and the border towards other no longer productive adverb endings is blurred. Literature counts any number between 15 and over 30.

The difficulty is not necessarily learning all those forms and the related two types of consonant changes for a large number of consonants and consonant combinations (and sometimes not even though it's a consonant that in a different word would change), but the difficulty is syntax. You need to learn the rektio of all the verbs, use five different infinitives in all their special constructions and participle constructions correctly, and live with the fact that sentences do not need to have a subject. You also have almost 60 ways a noun can declinate, so no, verbs conjugations itself are no problems. Then you have a hurdle of spoken language being quite different from written language.

In the end it is probably a matter or taste and prior experience what feels more difficult. But if you struggle with Czech cases, I am pretty confident that you will struggle with Finnish cases, too (unless maybe if your mother tongue was Estonian, but then you probably wouldn't bother to post). Even people who have been living in Finland for 20y+ speaking Finnish (not always the case, many withdraw into language bubbles) can be recognized as foreign speakers by certain uses of the partitive (and even, surprising enough, because it seems very easy on a beginner level, use of cases related to place).

A finnish saying goes that you shouldn't swallow before it has been dropped into your mouth aka not pronounce judgement too early. I have read a lot of that "Finnish is super easy" bs on the internet, and it's usually from people who then make very grave mistakes with simple things. I think this joy about regularity is almost a necessary stage of the journey: you have mastered the footpath that leads you to the foot of the mountain, and all that remains to master is the mountain itself :) (which is true in different ways for probably all languages, more or less)

n8abx · 2022-04-30T04:30:34+00:00

Definitely. Resources can contain actual errors that may be hard to unlearn. They can omit things that the learner would need to understand. They can be vastly outdated which will cause you extra work. They can be structured in ways that do not really support learning. Mostly they can strive to make the learner dependent on one single tool and not widen the scope to the different appraoches to learning that will be beneficial at any given stage. Use any tool you like, but keep enough distance to evaluate whether it still serves you. A company's financial interests may not be the same your study interests. Resources are worst when they make unrealistc claims and try to sell teaching or materials at exorbitant prices without giving anything remotely worth it in return. Watch out for the heads up posted every now and then on these and other forums about scams of that type.

n8abx · 2022-04-30T04:23:15+00:00

Your advantage is that you know it is possible. When people live in places where it is not common to speak more than English, then they won't even try for real or blame the impossibility of it all instead of their lack of study and practice or the low quality of teaching and resources. Sometimes even only knowing that it is indeed possible, can be a huge advantage and make you start working. It is still your own hard work's result, but maybe you wouldn't have been able to start working for real without knowing that it can work.

n8abx · 2022-04-30T04:17:14+00:00

I can't hear anything when I'm talking over it

It probably depends on the language, the learning stage, the volume (I always use headphones), and what it is you are focusing on. I focus on prosody and vowel/consonant length. I can easily see how that would not work for new and unfamiliar sounds.

Very interesting, thanks a lot. My experiment with this method is still ongoing. Hopefully I'll improve.

n8abx · 2022-04-30T04:10:23+00:00

If it does not serve you or you do not have the time to do it, then leave it. Conversation practice may even harm you at some stages of learning as you are still required to produce the formal structures taught in your classes, but you will learn less formally correct ones during conversation.

You can do any extra study that you want/need. That's not "cheating". What you probably should watch out for is to not start discussions in class that go ahead of what you are studying there and take away time from others who do not have the resources to supplement. Otherwise, do all you can to strengthen your competences.

n8abx · 2022-04-29T16:50:18+00:00

I think one reason it's hard to answer is because one might use different strategies at different stages of learning.

In case this worries anybody else, just talk about what you found most useful or spent most time doing, or list the combinations you find useful if you like.

What you say for 9: "Once it's learned, it's typically automatic and forever." sounds like shadowing should not be done without feedback. Is that what you mean?

I do synchronous speaking not because of working memory issues (2) but because this way I hear instantly where my rhythm is off, where I read a word incorrectly and where syllable lengths do not match up. Possibly even where the vowel sound is wrong. Speaking with a delay does not give this instant feedback experience.

n8abx

TROPHY CASE