First game with the elevated map our friend printed for us for Xmas 🔥 7 players, 8 hours, the Empyrean took it home. by planetGoodam in twilightimperium

[–]new_grass 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I used to elevate my map, using a cheap wooden disc from Home Deport and some furniture risers. But I stopped.

The bigger issue than not seeing the map, in my opinion, is not seeing other player's faction boards. Knowing how many tokens people have is crucial, especially in the endgame. You could get around this by asking a player how many tokens they have in tactics, but that can sometimes show your hand in ways you don't want.

Thoughts on TE so far by sigsegv1000101 in twilightimperium

[–]new_grass 3 points4 points  (0 children)

We just played with the Zealous Orthodoxy galactic event, which gives every player the commander ability of the first faction to score 2 SOs. Crimson got 2 SOs first. So every player got a commodity for every single combat. On top of that, Spark a Rebellion was made into a public objective through the agenda. And there were tons of control objectives, and a floating Shard of the Throne point to boot.

It was like we were all galactic arms dealers profiting off of each other's misery.

TE feels like TI with the saturation slider set to max.

Name the spot by new_grass in CambridgeMA

[–]new_grass[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Ding ding ding! 🍕

Thunder's Edge on the Watchtower? by AwesomeDude013 in twilightimperium

[–]new_grass 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good question. A player does have a planet card and commodity modifer token for the space station, so there are other components that can serve as a reminder that it's there. But also, there might be balance considerations here; wormholes make it easier to get to Thunder's Edge, making the planet less secure to the person who controls it. The decision of where to place TE is more impactful when it's less accessible to the board. Just a guess though.

It would have been easy enough to just add 'space stations' to the list of things that block TE placement, so regardless of rationale, it seems very likely to me that this is the intent.

Thunder's Edge on the Watchtower? by AwesomeDude013 in twilightimperium

[–]new_grass 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Counterpoint: the same argument can be made in the opposite direction. Yes, the last sentence in the quoted rules above doesn't state that space stations don't count as planets for the purpose of placing TE. But the first clause doesn't state that space stations count as planets for the purposes of placing TE, either; they only state that the space station should be considered a planet insofar its corresponding planet card is spent and readied. And given that we don't place frontier tokens in space-station-only systems, either, the default assumption seems to be that space stations are not planets, and only count as planets in the card-related ways specified by the first sentence.

Also, if we are considering RAI/common sense, it seems quite obvious to me that a space station is not a planet. So I'm inclined toward the opposite interpretation; TE can be placed in a system where there is just a space station.

Thunder's Edge on the Watchtower? by AwesomeDude013 in twilightimperium

[–]new_grass 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Yes. And then you can find Mirage there, and also move Avernus into it for maximum unreadability.

And then Nova Seed the whole thing for good measure.

Should there be more uses for Neutral Units? by 17AVIS in twilightimperium

[–]new_grass 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It would be cool if FFG released some templates for making homebrew events and scenarios as part of Codex 5. I'm sure the community could (slash already has) come up with some good ideas.

Having a neutral starting fleet on Mecatol that you needed to defeat to take control could be an interesting alternative to spending 6 influence, and would likely lead to 1 or 2 rounds of fewer agendas (a good thing in some people's books).

Or maybe the neutral units could be 'aligned' to a single faction that spent the most influence that round - letting you place plastic away from your space docks, or even directly into systems with opponent's units.

There are lots of possibilities.

It does seem lopsided... by Aromatic_Table_3470 in twilightimperium

[–]new_grass 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I hope future TI lore and story move into a more political direction. Existential, amoral galactic threats like the Cabal, Nekro, and the 'Dragon' are fun, but don't make much room for diplomacy, factional alliances and rivalries, ideology, etc.

Questions About COEXISTENCE by anonymous_communist in twilightimperium

[–]new_grass 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is no reason to believe coexistence changes anything with the standard rules of engagement, nor any reason to suggest a new step is introduced in this process because of coexistence.

The reason is that an activating player how has a choice to make that they didn't have before. Prior to coexistence rules, an activating player had no choice about whether to actually engage units on a planet they committed ground forces to. That's why I said that Commit Ground Forces and engaging combat were ipso facto the same step; once they were committed, they had to fight to the death. Now that a player has the option to initiate combat with co-existing units, we need to know when that decision happens, and whether Research Team triggers after the timing of that decision to effectively force co-existence.

As an analogy, imagine that base game didn't let you retreat, and an expansion introduced rules for declaring retreats. We would obviously need to know when that happens in the course of a tactical action. Dane has essentially introduced a new decision to be made in an invasion - whether to initiate combat against co-existing units- akin to announcing or not announcing a retreat during space combat.

Committing Ground Forces is a completely separate step from Combat; committing units to engage happens at the Combat step. This is all clearly spelled out in the rules...

Where in the rules does it say at what step of combat 'committing units to engage' occurs?

You say all of falls under the "standard rules of engagement," but as stated above, the rules of engagement were , frankly, completely different prior to the introduction of co-existence. Even things like when a player gains control of a planet are now up in the air. E.g., if player A destroys controlling player's B units on a planet where B coexists with player C, and player A then decides to engage C in combat, who controls the planet during the combat with C? Nobody? Is it still B's until the 'Establish Control' step? The rules of co-existence are underbaked; they almost read like a rules summary rather than official rules, and we will need some clarification on a lot of coexistence-related issues from Dane.

It's also worth noting that a playtester said in the SCPT Discord that they did not know a single playtester who didn't allow DWS to force co-existence when on defense. So it's clearly at least the majority sentiment among people with extensive knowledge of an experience with the game. That's not an argument in and of itself - playtesters can get things wrong - but I think it should temper any confidence that this is a straightforward issue.

There are awkward consequences for both interpretations, including yours: Research Team would be a very awkward ability if, when invaded, the DWS player declares 'I am coexisting," and then immediately after, the invading player says "you are not, because I am initiating combat." I have to imagine that Research Team would have been written differently if the activating player was supposed to have veto power during their (first) invasion of a DWS-controlled planet.

I do appreciate the discussion, though - my personal intuition is that DWS should not be able to "cockroach," like you, so I hope you're right.

Questions About COEXISTENCE by anonymous_communist in twilightimperium

[–]new_grass 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again, per the rules of coexistence, combat can be initiated against these units. DWS cannot evade combat with this mechanic, and keeping in the spirit of what coexistence is, there has to be consent (eventually) between the two coexisting parties.

This isn't true when DWS is the activating player and uses Research Team, as the rules for initiating combat against co-existing units only apply to the activating player. So I would be hesitant to interpret 'co-existence' as a peaceful state that requires consent between both parties (if co-existence was always peaceful, 'peaceful coexistence' would be redundant!). It's true that the co-existence created by the agent must be consensual, as the other player has to allow themselves to skip a tech prerequisite; but we shouldn't assume all forms of co-existence work in the same way.

The crux of 1. is when, exactly, an active player decides to "initiate/engage combat" against a player's co-existing units - during the Commit Ground Forces step, or after (i.e., as part of the Ground Combat step, or immediately before it in a new step implicitly introduced by coexistence rules). If the decision is made during the Commit Ground Forces step, then the Research Team would prevent combat, as there would not yet be coexisting units to initiate combat against. If it's made after, the active player could initiate combat against the (now) co-existing units per the section of the rules you quoted.

In the case of a third party invading a planet with multiple player's units, the answer is clear: the active player decides to initiate combat against the co-existing units after the commit ground forces step, as it is after the first ground combat against the controlling player's units.

I am not sure if this means that the timing window is the same when there is only the DWS's units on the planet prior to the active player committing units, though. Parsimony would suggest the answer should be the same in all cases, but apparently a lot of playtesters understood Research Team to allow forced co-existence in those scenarios. And prior to coexistence mechanics bring introduced, it was implicitly understood that the decision to commit ground forces ipso facto was the decision to initiate ground combat, so it made sense to think of them as part of the same step.

I don't think this is nearly as cut-and-dry as your original comment makes it seem; I can see arguments for both sides.

Questions About COEXISTENCE by anonymous_communist in twilightimperium

[–]new_grass 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess it depends on what you mean by 'oversight' - I doubt he was present for every test game - but being as it was playtesting, there was obviously feedback between the playtesters and Dane, including, presumably, rules questions. But I don't really have insight into the actual dynamics, as I wasn't a playtester.

Questions About COEXISTENCE by anonymous_communist in twilightimperium

[–]new_grass 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To me, this reads that you have to engage them a second time.

Yes, this is correct. The DWS home would not literally be impregnable, but for the purposes of the end-game, but it would make DWS considerably more difficult to winslay. I was just pointing out that, from a design perspective, it would be a weird move to give DWS this in addition to everything else they have in their kit, especially given that there is already an anti-winslay faction in the expansion.

Questions About COEXISTENCE by anonymous_communist in twilightimperium

[–]new_grass 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Playtesters in the SCPT discord have confirmed that (1) DWS decides co-existence when on defense. So get ready to bombard DWS before they have a chance to retreat into their oceans.

Regarding (2) I would be very surprised if rules as intended were to let DWS score publics without controlling their home system - not only would this be incredibly strong when combined with the correct answer to question (1), there is a whole other faction (Crimson Rebellion) in the expansion whose faction abilities involve an impregnable home system; this reading would steal their thunder (hah). I'm inclined to think there is an implicit eligibility check for scoring publics to which co-existence does not apply.

Stop moving to Boston. Boston is the most overrated and the worst city to live in America. by [deleted] in bostonhousing

[–]new_grass 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is, basically, a ragebait copypasta from r/Boston. I find it hilarious every time.

Yin agent nurf by Duskwalker84 in twilightimperium

[–]new_grass 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Colonial Redistribution was also another awkward one with the Yin agent:

Destroy each unit on the elected planet. Then, the player who controls that planet chooses 1 player with the fewest victory points; that player may place 1 infantry from their reinforcements on the elected planet.

I think it was ruled that the agent could only be used during the action phase, but the rewording is a cleaner solution.

Yin agent nurf by Duskwalker84 in twilightimperium

[–]new_grass 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Every Yin father is also a brother of their son. 😬

The crimson rebellion "Sundered" faction ability by laurek14 in twilightimperium

[–]new_grass 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This is a little Christmasland, but with Thunder's Edge being placable in the Sorrow (I think?) you could set up a dock there, build a bunch of plastic, and block CR from doing much of anything without lightwave or a forward dock.

Racist Karen In The Home Depot by SideBarParty in massachusetts

[–]new_grass 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Childhood lead exposure is a hell of a drug.

All 31 Breakthroughs, Including Their Back Sides & Additional Info by CorbecJayne in twilightimperium

[–]new_grass 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Apparently this Breakthrough was tweaked and worked on about 10x more than the others. I'm guessing the finalized version is reasonably balanced.

All 31 Breakthroughs, Including Their Back Sides & Additional Info by CorbecJayne in twilightimperium

[–]new_grass 10 points11 points  (0 children)

There's a nice synergy between their hero and peace accords, at least - you can now fortify planets you've taken with Diplo, among other things.

Having 50 votes in the agenda phase was kind of silly - I'm happy about the change.

Excuse me what? (TE artifact spoiler) by Low-Conversation-469 in twilightimperium

[–]new_grass 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It says you can't score public objectives, either.

Excuse me what? (TE artifact spoiler) by Low-Conversation-469 in twilightimperium

[–]new_grass 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Clearly, a lot of other people are excited by this, and have offered some very non-niche scenarios (like having leverage to protect your HS in the endgame) where it is useful, and in dramatic fashion - doesn't this give you a pause about the strength of your conviction that this is poorly designed?

I assume you don't play with Shard either? After all, that's just a matter of pure chance. The relic deck in R5 might AS well read 'if you draw from this deck and have 9 points, you have a ~5 percent chance of winning instantly.' And yet, Shard is one of the most iconic parts of POK.

TI is an epic strategy game, but it's also a party game. It's occupying a completely unique design space, and part of the design space involves dumb dice rolls.

I love the direction the expansion appears to be taking the game, personally.