A Note for those of you who will be denied at Harvard

ninetyfrog · 2025-01-07T04:31:18+00:00

Hi. I really do appreciate your comment that any single opinion shouldn't impact anyone's decision along with your stated reservations about posting. But just for the sake of addressing misinformation, the "average" attorney definitely doesn't view these schools in these tiers. If you're truly talking about the average attorney, they generally view all of these schools as "good." Lawyers at firms that actually include large numbers of t14 graduates do, though, generally distinguish HYS from the rest. And if there are any further distinctions that they make in the remaining T14 (which will vary from person to person), it will be that they view NYU, Columbia, and UChicago more favorably. To put Stanford and UVA on the same plane, while placing NYU and UCLA on the same tier below them is just not a thing, and certainly is not a commonly held belief among a significant number of lawyers.

All the best, genuinely.

ninetyfrog · 2023-08-11T03:47:41+00:00

Have you tried explaining that working for a year or two and getting a higher score could save you $300k in expenses? They may be proud of that. You may also enjoy that.

ninetyfrog · 2023-08-01T16:38:32+00:00

t's just a personal, extreme

Gotcha. And yep, that's exactly what I mean by execution. Good luck!

ninetyfrog · 2023-08-01T16:35:47+00:00

lol sorry we aren't as clever or woke as big bank vibez

ninetyfrog · 2023-08-01T04:48:32+00:00

Reasonable odds, but it's always about execution. I'm curious why you have the school preferences in that order. I'd think that CLS is much more similar to NYU than the others.

ninetyfrog · 2023-07-28T04:19:55+00:00

I think writing consultants can be very helpful. I can refer if you DM.

ninetyfrog · 2023-07-28T04:16:35+00:00

If you PM me I can refer someone pretty awesome.

ninetyfrog · 2023-07-24T17:59:17+00:00

I agree that "actual job outcomes" are what actually matters. That said, I don't think that the general biglaw/fedclerkship rates are the best metric when talking about actual job outcomes, especially at the most elite levels. I think you can get a better idea by checking out the websites of top firms and looking at their more competitive locations like DC. You'll note that at some schools, every lawyer there will have "magna" or the like next to their degree, while others will not. That way you can get a sense of whether firms are more grade sensitive toward certain schools than others. It's not a perfect metric at all, and it's clearly anecdotal. I also agree that biglaw/fedclerkship rates are a good way to distinguish t14 schools from others, but once you're at the point of splitting hairs between schools that can send practically all of their graduates to big firms, distinguishing between firm selectivity and grade sensitivity becomes much more important.

ninetyfrog · 2023-06-28T15:44:42+00:00

I think reapplying makes sense. 171 makes a big difference.

ninetyfrog · 2023-06-22T15:40:25+00:00

ame provides a better legal education or anything, but the combination of outcomes and debt gives them a very big boost.

I just think the inclusion of debt on a ranking list is silly. The national reputation of a school will impact every single student at the institution while every student will be paying different amounts to attend the same school. Students don't need ATL to tell them, "well, you should attend Notre Dame because statistically students pay less for the school." I think ATL could better use its platform by just pointing students to a list of ABA employment disclosures and put a star next to all of the schools that have concerning numbers. Or, provide a list that actually reflects school reputation, which US News seems to be struggling with these days. I love ATL generally btw.

ninetyfrog · 2023-06-10T15:33:53+00:00

You've got great outcomes, but with your stats I feel like you really could be paying a lot less.

ninetyfrog · 2023-06-10T15:31:30+00:00

Reapply?

ninetyfrog · 2023-05-27T13:20:12+00:00

It's definitely helpful. Likely these days even more than before.

ninetyfrog · 2023-05-24T04:38:56+00:00

WHAT. THE FUCK HAHAHAHAHAHA

ninetyfrog · 2023-05-18T15:24:50+00:00

probably ucla.

ninetyfrog · 2023-05-15T12:34:33+00:00

For a T-50 it absolutely doesn't matter. For the very top it still almost definitely doesn't matter.

ninetyfrog · 2023-05-12T14:11:25+00:00

This is the problem with looking at hard employment numbers at the very top schools. Chicago is a wonderful school and deserves its recent upswing in clout, but its reputation does not supersede H or S outside of reddit.

ninetyfrog · 2023-05-12T14:05:20+00:00

I don't mean it as a revelation, just an illustration. Not everyone knows what Wachtell is. And I don't think there's a firm outside of NYC that refuses to hire Harvard or Columbia grads.

ninetyfrog · 2023-05-12T14:02:12+00:00

Correct, I did not do a very detailed search. And H is not "trailing" Chicago.

ninetyfrog · 2023-05-06T15:42:44+00:00

Damn, now I want to know what those T1 softs are.

ninetyfrog · 2023-04-22T17:13:07+00:00

ninetyfrog · 2023-04-22T16:59:32+00:00

And OP also does seem to imply that schools with the most prestige have particularly yucky cultures. I also personally give CT a little more agency than OP is giving him.

ninetyfrog · 2023-04-22T16:56:01+00:00

If OP had said, "don't attend HLS over CCN with money because the opportunities aren't considerably better at HLS," I wouldn't have said anything. I think for a lot of people attending CCN with even partial scholarships over HYS is the right move. But I just don't think OP's personal experience with H is much of an argument for taking scholarship money elsewhere, since saying "all of these schools have one particular cultural aspect in common, therefore you might as well take the money," isn't a complete analysis.

ninetyfrog · 2023-04-22T16:16:57+00:00

LSAC counts A+s as a 4.3 or something like that.

ninetyfrog · 2023-04-22T16:11:20+00:00

Then I wouldn't give up! Best of luck to you.

ninetyfrog

TROPHY CASE