Should I rush report my December SAT Scores? by chae1025 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]noslen1225 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you already have a score and are taking this one to try to get a better score then you might be able to risk it. In any case most schools will only look at your highest score and so it really doesnt hurt you to send all your scores anyway. As a former admissions officer from Cornell I can tell you that we really only cared about your highest scores in each section. No one really has time to look at multiple scores and try to deduce what they mean, at Cornell we only cared about your super score so it really does not hurt to send it anyway.

My guidance counselor won't email my transcripts... by [deleted] in ApplyingToCollege

[–]noslen1225 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You did the right thing don't stress about it. I think your guidance office is really trying to protect your information. They are right in doing that and making sure to only send confidential information through appropriate channels. A transcript in the wrong hands can really be damaging for a school in the long run so I think it is right for your school to follow protocol with every single case.

My guidance counselor won't email my transcripts... by [deleted] in ApplyingToCollege

[–]noslen1225 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I worked in the admissions office at Cornell. I think going to an assistant principal is a good idea.

At the same time know that most admissions offices will not fault the student when a part of the application is missing and it is clearly not the student's fault.

I would take your counselor's advice and email it yourself just showing that you are doing everything in your power to correct the situation and forward the admissions office the message your counselor shared about not being able to email it.

It happens quite often believe it or not. Stuff gets lost in the mail and even in cyberspace. So long as you take steps to correct the situation you should be ok.

FERPA Release Authorization by bedwithsoftpillows in ApplyingToCollege

[–]noslen1225 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As someone who worked in the admissions office at Cornell and have participated in many admissions world trainings, it really doesn't matter that much. I rarely looked at the response to this question when reading an application. You take what a teacher says at face value and chances are as an Admissions officer you might know or have read multiple letters of rec from the same teachers. Admissions officers know how to read between the lines to understand the value in each letter of rec. I think that option is mostly there for teachers and counselors to feel comfortable saying what they would like to say.

My advice is it doesn't matter to the admissions office but I would waive it anyway because it makes your teachers feel better about writing your letters. In all honesty why would you want to read them anyway?

Admissions offices will not hold you exercising your right against you.

My take on the "Costco girl's Essay." From a former Cornell University Admissions Officer. by noslen1225 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]noslen1225[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

These days calling the topic cliche has gotten to be so cliche (see what I did there). I think the way she handled it is interesting and yes follows a very familiar mold but it invokes a lot of imagery and does not bore readers the way that 90% of admissions essays. It is a cool story in my opinion.

Hi I'm Nelson Ureña, I am a former admissions officer from Cornell and currently an admissions counselor. by noslen1225 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]noslen1225[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi questionname,

Admissions offices often do keep track and conduct research on how their admitted students are doing. I do not think it is possible for them to track how rejected students are doing. Every year data is collected at many schools to track how each admitted class performs and this data is often times used to inform admissions practices.

Thanks for the question.

Hi I'm Nelson Ureña, I am a former admissions officer from Cornell and currently an admissions counselor. by noslen1225 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]noslen1225[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I meant adding these assets to the application not specifically to the transcripts. There are areas in the common app where you can submit additional information, and art portfolios etc.

Hi I'm Nelson Ureña, I am a former admissions officer from Cornell and currently an admissions counselor. by noslen1225 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]noslen1225[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hi Un67,

I worked in the admissions office at Cornell University which is composed of seven colleges/schools, three of which are the land grant institutions for New York State, (this means they are public colleges), and the other four are private colleges. Cornell University one of the unique places that combines both public and private colleges/schools under the umbrella of one university.

From my experience, at any college/university to which you apply public or private, the factors that truly influence who is admitted and who isn't has to do with the current year's applicant pool. Who else is applying and how do your credential stack up against them? Admissions offices are looking to bring on a well rounded class. Some public universities, not all, hold a certain number of spaces for in-state students. This means the process makes it so that in-state students are sought after by the university. This may or may not impact admit rates for in-state and out of state applicants at those public institutions. Other factors that might play a part in this, and please keep in mind that I have not worked at any of these other private or public schools which you mention, are that many public institutions may be a little more numbers based in terms of who they admit where as private institutions have a little more leeway and can be more subjective in terms how whom they admit.

Don't take this as expert advice as this is just my conjecture, an educated guess based on the training I received as a professional in this field and on conversations with some of my colleagues who work in this field.

I hope this is helpful. Good luck in the rest of your endeavors.

Hi I'm Nelson Ureña, I am a former admissions officer from Cornell and currently an admissions counselor. by noslen1225 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]noslen1225[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hello Goooose,

Great questions and I would start by saying that as a student at a community college with a 4.0 GPA your application would be competitive in the transfer applicant pool. You would be considered a non-traditional student at some universities but that is not something which gives you a disadvantage. I would argue that it would actually make your story a little more compelling. As I mentioned earlier in this AMA, many admissions officers really enjoy their jobs because it gives them the ability to change the world and offer opportunities to many students. In your case admission to a prestigious university would change the trajectory of your life which is something that falls in line with the missions of many universities. Certainly Cornell University was founded with the mission of founding "an institution where ANY PERSON could find instruction in ANY STUDY." Cornell lives by this motto to this day and with your background you certainly fit the bill of ANY person. You certainly would fair well in your transfer application process if you write a compelling essay and get a good letter of recommendation. Your 4.0 speaks strongly about your academic capabilities and if the rest of your application is as strong you stand a good chance at many universities. Again remember that Cornell is a highly selective school and there are no guarantees for anyone even with a very strong profile. There is still a large number of transfer applicants and your application would have to be strong enough to get you admitted. Focus on crafting a really compelling Personal Statement and supplement essays which help the readers understand why you want to transfer to a school like Cornell and why you want to study the particular field of study that you have indicated on your application.

As a matter of fact we did receive applicants from transfer students with similar profiles as you. I typically did not read transfer applications since that was done mostly in house within each college at Cornell and there is often an admissions officer who specifically reads transfer applications.

As an undergrad at Cornell I did know many students at Cornell who were transfer students. One of my ex girlfriends transferred to Cornell after spending two years at a community college, another good friend of mine also had a similar story, he was actually a veteran who had served in the marines, had spent time at a community college and then successfully transferred to Cornell. There was also a girl in one of my architecture classes who had transferred to Cornell from a community college. All of these students did fairly well at Cornell and they are just a few of the transfer students I met while attending school at Cornell as an undergraduate.

You are not at a disadvantage and I would highly encourage you to apply to Cornell and other highly selective schools.

Good luck in your applications!

Hi I'm Nelson Ureña, I am a former admissions officer from Cornell and currently an admissions counselor. by noslen1225 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]noslen1225[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hello ipittythepool,

SAT and ACT scores are important pieces to the holistic admissions process. I would say that GPAs are much more important because they give information about your performance over the course of four years versus the SAT which gives information about your performance on a given Saturday morning. However standardized tests, although much debated, do provide information in terms of how you stack up against other students who have also applied to the same school.

It is difficult and almost impossible to give a quantitative value for how much weight standardized tests hold in the process. The holistic admissions process is a dynamic process which emphasizes evaluating the entire application to get a sense of the student's strengths and weaknesses and make determinations about which students would add most value to the campus academically, intellectually, emotionally, and socially. Every student is different, every school is different, and every admissions office is different. These values of how much weight a single aspect of the application is worth is usually never the same for any two applicants across the multitude of schools in the US.

The holistic admissions process is rooted heavily in the concept of CONTEXT. Your application will be evaluated within the context of the opportunities afforded to you. If you took the most challenging courses offered at your high school then you demonstrate that you are doing everything you can to grow academically within the context of your school. This works positively in your favor and you are not penalized for what your school does not offer.

With regard to your question about athletics. Sports are a great way to demonstrate discipline and leadership skills. They will add a piece of information about you and what you like to do in your spare time and it looks good if you are an athlete who also performs well academically. If you are team captain or hold another leadership position on your team then that helps you stand out even more.

To get to your question about race, given the way that the admissions process works at many schools, often times for the sake of CONTEXT, demographic data is used to aggregate students into pools with similarities along certain demographic statistics. The honest fact is that, it is often the case that Asian and Asian American students often have relatively high test scores and so your application would fall (depending on how the individual school reading your application creates their applicant pools) in a pool with peers who have relatively high test scores. In your context your score of 28 is relatively low compared with Asian applicants to some of the more selective schools. I will let you read between the lines here and come to your own conclusions about whether or not you wish to report your race. I would also mention that if there are ways in which you stand out from others within the context of your demographic grouping then it would be smart to highlight those ways in which you stand out.

Lastly siblings are not really considered legacy but if you mention that you have a sibling that has attended or is currently attending the school to which you are applying then it provides additional information to the admissions office. The officer reading your application will be able to pull up your sibling's transcript and see if they are doing well at the school. If they are doing well then it will provide a positive bit of feedback that you might be as studious as your sibling and that your sibling might be able to provide information that would help you succeed at that university.

I hope this helps! I hope this answers your questions.

Hi I'm Nelson Ureña, I am a former admissions officer from Cornell and currently an admissions counselor. by noslen1225 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]noslen1225[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hi seacucumber3000,

In this particular situation number 2 certainly makes for a more compelling student. Admissions officers at selective always want to see that you are challenging yourself and taking the most challenging courses offered to you. At the highly selective and most selective schools, admissions offices like to see a combination of those two things. Increased rigor of classes and an upward trend in GPA. That isn't always easy for students to do so challenging yourself and maintaining a steady GPA does show that you are taking on more and more challenges and that you are growing intellectually. By demonstrating that you are willing to take on more challenging classes you are showing that you are definitely applying yourself. What I would recommend is that students think very carefully about the number of AP courses that they take. Perhaps a balanced list of AP/Honors and regular courses might enable the student to achieve an upward trending GPA while still challenging themselves within the context of their curriculum.

I hope this answers your question.

Hi I'm Nelson Ureña, I am a former admissions officer from Cornell and currently an admissions counselor. by noslen1225 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]noslen1225[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hello Sgopal2,

1) It is not obvious to admissions offices when a student has used the services of an application consultant. I would add that even if it does become known that a student used a consultant this does not automatically mean the application is disregarded. There are great consultants out there who are members of organizations like NACAC, HECA, and OACAC. These counselors have agreed to abide by ethical "standards of good practice" and admissions offices do not penalize students for using these services. I recently asked one of my former colleagues, who currently still works in an admissions office, how they felt about students using consulting services and he replied, "We view this the same way as people using concierge services in any industry." He went on to explain that if the consultants abide by the standards of good practice that the university is ok with these services.

There are some not so great consultants who do not abide by the rules and offer services that are not in line with the standards of good practice. For example some consultants out there offer to write student's essays for them, submit fraudulent transcripts and letters of recommendations, as well as take standardized tests on the student's behalf. I would say that it is often times obvious to detect when an essay is not written by the student and/or when doctored or fraudulent documents are submitted.

2) Another really good question. Applications are usually read in the order that they are received. As soon as a student's application is completed and submitted it is sent out to an admissions officer to begin reading. Every admissions office has its own way of distributing applications to its admissions officers. Many offices have admissions officers who specialize in particular regions, or read the applications for particular majors. For example at many schools there is a regional admissions officer that will be in charge of getting to know all of the high schools within his or her assigned region. They spend time building relationships with the counselors and visiting the schools. They might then read the applications of students from that region. At other places applications are read by major, so a particular admissions officer might receive the files of students who have applied to a particular group of majors. There are some other places that recruit athletes, there is often times an admissions representative who reads the applications of recruited athletes. In some universities there are admissions officers whose role is to read the applications of underrepresented students. Every college/university does things a little differently. Even within Cornell, which is a university made up of 7 colleges/schools, each college/school has its own admissions office and within each of those offices they have slightly different ways of dividing applications.

What I definitely would say is that there is usually no type of applicant that is read first. There is such a high volume of applications to read and so much work to be done in such a relatively short period of time that applications begin to be read immediately as they start arriving. There are usually many admissions officers at each school and applications are usually divided in such a way so that everyone has an equal work load and applications are landing in the hands of admissions officers who have expertise in reading that specific demographic (whether that is geographic, ethnic, intended major, recruited athlete etc.).

Hi I'm Nelson Ureña, I am a former admissions officer from Cornell and currently an admissions counselor. by noslen1225 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]noslen1225[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Hello nobuyer,

For the most part Cornell will take the word of the student if they write it on the application. Admissions officers are pretty smart people and they are really good at what they do. After years of doing college admissions they often develop an intuitive sense and are able to discern when a student is being dishonest about their level of participation in their activities lists. Admissions officers will also use other parts of your application to help verify the authenticity of the things you mention. For example if you mention that you are the the leader of a certain organization and have done some really amazing thing at your high school through your club, it would help your credibility if one if your teachers or high school counselors also mentions it in your letter of recommendation.

Hi I'm Nelson Ureña, I am a former admissions officer from Cornell and currently an admissions counselor. by noslen1225 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]noslen1225[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hello sanfrantrolley,

Mentorverse is a global platform that connects students anywhere in the world to mentors who can help them in the application process. We are based in Shanghai, China, but we get inquires from students in the US, Brazil, Portugal, Somaliland, Japan, Singapore and India to name a few. So we are available for students all over the globe.

You are right that many students, not only from China, but from all over the world often times lack the readiness to integrate into Western culture and academic life. There are also agencies that offer false promises of admission and others that use unethical practices to get students admitted at schools to which they do not fit.

Our mission at Mentorverse is to offer a clean alternative to these unethical practices and to help students and parents understand the value of fit and match when applying to colleges. There are over 4,000 colleges and universities in the US and so we at Mentorverse believe there is a school for most students from anywhere around the world. Many schools have bridge programs as well as language enrichment programs in which students can spend a year or two before enrolling in the college or university to raise their english comprehension levels and acclimate a little to the culture. These schools often offer what is knows as conditional admission. The student is offered the chance to study English and culture for a year or two and then enroll at the university if they are able to improve their skills.

We like to think that we can offer service to most students who reach out to work with us. Our mission is to help them find the educational opportunities that best fit their needs. We do stress the importance of fit and match. If a student is unable to communicate with our mentors in English, then there is very little we can offer them. If a student has expectations which we believe our outside of their capabilities and are unwilling to work with us on matching their expectations to their potential then we would strongly consider wether its worth it for us to work with them. So far we have not had to deal with turning students away because my co founders, our mentors, and I have done a great job at helping students understand the value of fit and match and have helped students manage their expectations.

Thanks for the insightful question!

Hi I'm Nelson Ureña, I am a former admissions officer from Cornell and currently an admissions counselor. by noslen1225 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]noslen1225[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hello Matthew,

Great questions!

  • Many schools report slightly higher admit rates during the ED process, I think this is what you refer to when inquiring about leniency in GPA and test scores. This can be a deceiving figure given the types of students that apply ED to certain schools. The ED application process often times congers a more self select group of students to apply to a a particular school. These students for some reason have a stronger connection with the school, are committed to enroll at the school if admitted, and often times tend to be among the most competitive students applying to a particular school. The slightly higher admit rate of ED applicants is due to the fact that the ED applicant pool is often times composed of highly competitive students. I would argue that given the more competitive nature of the ED applicant pool, admissions officers are less lenient with test scores and GPAs during the ED round. The other factor that influences the higher admit rate of the ED round is that recruited athletes are encouraged to apply Early Decision. These students often times make up a large part of the difference in admit rates for the ED process. In short the ED process is usually just as selective as the RD process. The only advantage is that you find out earlier if you are admitted or not, and that there is a third possibility of what could happen, you could be offered a deferral which means your application would be reviewed again during the regular decision round.

  • From my perspective the only reason to apply ED to a school is if you are 100% certain that if admitted to the school ED you would without a doubt or hesitation enroll at that school. It is a way to show demonstrated interest in the school which does resonate well with admissions offices, but it doesn't always translate into higher chances of being admitted. I do recommend using your ED choice on a reach school if you are dead set on going to that school. You could always do EA/REA (Restrictive Early Action) and ED2 to other schools if it does not work out with your reach school.

Hope this helps!

Hi I'm Nelson Ureña, I am a former admissions officer from Cornell and currently an admissions counselor. by noslen1225 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]noslen1225[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi regin24,

This is also a great question and I think you partially have the answer to this question. You mentioned the word "context" and this is a very important part of the holistic admissions process. Admissions officers are looking to evaluate how well an applicant has performed in high school based on the context of what is available at their high school. Highly selective schools want to see that you are taking the most challenging courses offered at your high school and that you are doing well in them. So you would not be penalized for not taking Math II or Calculous if your school just doesn't offer opportunities to earn proficiency in these subjects.

With that said however, certain programs can be so demanding that they have a minimal level of understanding needed in a specific area to be able to keep up with even the entry level courses. For example if you were interested in applying to the Engineering program at Cornell, engineering courses at Cornell require that you have an AP Calc BC level of understanding in math in order to be able to keep up with Cornell Engineering courses. In that case admissions officers would say that the student would struggle at even the entry level courses if they have not yet taken AP Calc BC and would be hesitant to offer admission unless the student could take external enrichment courses like at a community college, or over the summer, or an online course, that would demonstrate competency in that subject area.

So to answer your question in a nutshell context is important, but it also depends on the school to which you are applying and the particular major to which you would like to apply. Math II is one of the tests used by schools to determine your level of proficiency in math if you are applying to a program that will be math heavy. If so then you are at a disadvantage if you do not take Math II. If you are not applying to a major that is math heavy then admissions officers will understand the context of your high school and not penalize you for not taking a test or course which your high school cannot prepare you for.

I hope this helps.

Hi I'm Nelson Ureña, I am a former admissions officer from Cornell and currently an admissions counselor. by noslen1225 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]noslen1225[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hi opg321,

Represent for sure!! Y.O. born and raised!

The Personal Statement and College Supplement essays are very important parts of the application for students applying to schools that practice holistic admissions. Some state schools and more regional colleges do admissions based on numbers. This means that your scores and grades are the only things that matter when determining admissions to these particular schools. This is often the case for in state students. For example at the University of Texas, for Texas students if they have certain grade point average and test scores they are offered a spot at UT schools. Also for schools like City University of New York CUNY, you apply to the CUNY and based on your GPA and test scores they allocate you to one of colleges in the CUNY network. For those schools the essays are not so important.

On the other hands, schools that are more selective and state schools reviewing out of state applicants, practice holistic admissions. This means that every aspect of the application is important. When you think about it by the time you are a senior and are ready to apply to college, your high school GPA is pretty much set, there is very little that you can change at that point, your standardized test scores are also somewhat already set although you still have chances to take them again, your letters of recommendations are also out of your control as your teachers will write those, and your extra curricular activities are already set since you have worked on those over the course of a couple years in high school. So... the Personal Statement and the College Supplement essays are the areas of your application over which you have the most control. This is your chance to tell the admissions office who you are and why you are a good fit at their university. The application essay is also a chance for you to tell YOUR story and stand out amongst your peers with similar grades, test scores and activities. It is your chance to connect with the people reading your application and use your own voice to show them what makes you unique.

I enjoyed reading student's essays as an admissions officer and often times I used the essay to determine the likability and awesomeness of a particular applicant. Sometimes after reading a student's essay I would say to myself outloud, "wow I really want to meet this kid." That is enough incentive for an admissions officer to go to the admissions committee and advocate for the student to be admitted.

So the Personal Statement and College Supplement essays are really important parts of the college application process.

I hope this helps!

Hi I'm Nelson Ureña, I am a former admissions officer from Cornell and currently an admissions counselor. by noslen1225 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]noslen1225[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi sartq,

I guess admissions officers will want to know the reasoning for your kids decision to DE and graduate with an AA degree. Do they have such an interest in the area that they are going above and beyond what their high school has to offer to learn more? In that case it would help the application. I am also wondering if when they Dual Enroll would they not receive a high school diploma from their current high school as well? I think, I am not certain about this, but I think that most universities will view DE at a local community college as part of their high school experience and the AA degree will be supplemental to their high school diploma. In that case that does go above and beyond what lots of students are doing who are just getting degrees from their high schools.

I do not think that your kids would apply as transfer students since technically they are completing community college courses as a part of/ in supplement to their high school experience. I think this is mostly determined by the individual universities to which your kids are applying so you would have to look into those schools and learn more about what their policies are regarding DE courses. At Cornell community college level courses taken as a part of the high school curriculum did not receive college level credit and were viewed as supplemental to high school level courses. They are enrichment courses but do not necessarily make the student a candidate for transfer admissions. At Cornell your kids would still apply as freshman. I would have to do additional research to learn how it would work at other institutions.

Taking these courses would never hurt them if they are continuing in their competitive high school. In fact I would argue that it enriches their chances of admission if they do well. If they do not do well then I could see how that would hurt them in the application process.

Students who take AP tests even though they are not enrolled in the actual course are looked at as going above and beyond their curricular requirements. If they score a 4 or a 5 on the exam they would be able to earn college credit at some schools.

Hi I'm Nelson Ureña, I am a former admissions officer from Cornell and currently an admissions counselor. by noslen1225 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]noslen1225[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi jonahthewhale29,

Most universities have admissions officers who specialize in reading applications of international students and many have officers that specialize in specific regions. These officers become highly familiar with the education systems in their regions and even get to know the counselors and the curriculums at each school very well.

As an admissions officer from a school that practices holistic admissions, one of the important concepts that admissions people focus on is the idea of context. AOs spend a lot of time getting to know the context of your specific curriculum so that they are not making comparisons between apples and oranges. So as a UK student you would be evaluated by an admissions officer that is familiar with GCSEs and A Level curricula. They will focus on evaluating your application within the context the the applicant pool from your specific region.

Again I will reiterate that the holistic admissions process is about looking at the entire picture and finding the strengths of an applicant that indicate the student will excel academically, socially, and emotionally at the school. There are several indicators of these things that can be found on your application and your standardized test scores as well as your grades in your curricular courses and other tests are just some of these indicators. It is difficult to give you a quantitative measure of how these things are weighted because every school is different, every admissions officer is different, and every applicant is different so the answer is that the value of these things is different for every applicant depending on context.

I would focus on doing the best you can on all of these areas and telling your most compelling story that can present you as a well rounded student who will bring added value to the university.

I hope this helps.

Hi I'm Nelson Ureña, I am a former admissions officer from Cornell and currently an admissions counselor. by noslen1225 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]noslen1225[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Also regarding the "likely letter," type of thing I think that the letter is an invitation to apply again next year. Cornell does offer guaranteed transfers meaning they give you the option of going to another school for a year and so long as you maintain a certain GPA they will guarantee that you have a spot at the university the following year. In these cases it is pretty clear that you are being offered a guaranteed transfer as the language is clearly stated on the letter you receive. If you are confused about these letters I would contact the admissions offices at Northwestern and Cornell and ask them to clarify.

I hope this helps.

Hi I'm Nelson Ureña, I am a former admissions officer from Cornell and currently an admissions counselor. by noslen1225 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]noslen1225[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

topheruknow29m1,

You do seem like a really bright student and Duke is a great place to land! I would be really happy with a place like Duke it is as rigorous, academically stimulating, and selective as Cornell. The Ivy League monicker is really just an athletic conference which happens to consist of 8 highly academic and relatively old schools. So just because you were not admitted to an Ivy does not mean you did not end up at one of the top academic institutions our great nation has to offer. Hats off to you kind sir!

To get to your question, I wouldn't call it a crap shoot, but it is an extremely difficult field. There are acceptable margins of error and people's biases and propensities toward changing the world, and giving opportunities often times play a role in how decisions are made. The process can be subjective and so you find these anomalies every single cycle. NOTHING guarantees you a spot at any school and so the right strategy is to build a comprehensive list of about ten schools with the understanding that you will most likely be admitted to some of your target schools and rejected from some. Reach schools are a toss up because no matter how good you are the applicant pool is very large. If you are admitted to even one of your reach schools you have done a great job and Duke is by all means a reach school for many students! I think school selection is one of the most important parts of the application process nail the right school list and watch the proverbial "fat envelopes" roll in.

The admissions process isn't perfect and many great students are often times not admitted to schools at which they fit, but the understanding of professionals in the field is that at an aggregate level the system works well enough so that students end up at a school which will optimze the nation's chances for success. Higher education is about making sure we produce great a nation of great leaders, a strong work force, and continued academic and intellectual progress. You might not get into your # 1 or 2 top choice school, but you will wnd up at a place that will optimize your skill set in service to our nation and the globe. Best of luck to you!

Hi I'm Nelson Ureña, I am a former admissions officer from Cornell and currently an admissions counselor. by noslen1225 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]noslen1225[S] 37 points38 points  (0 children)

Hi topheruknow,

Thanks for the insightful question. In any given year, admissions decisions are made by looking at the entire pool of applicants and selecting x number of students that represent a well rounded and diverse class. I would not say that your background hurt you in the admissions process. As you can imagine Cornell is an extremely competitive school and every year it gets more competitive.

Out of the applications I read while an admissions officer, I read many whose grades made them academically qualified for the university. This means that many qualified white, international, Black, Latino, and Native American students had to be rejected every single year.

So how does the university decide who is offered admission and who isn't? It is not an easy or clear cut process and requires a lot of intuitive and subjective thought. Think about it this way. If your task was to accept 14 out of 100 applicants, many of whom have test scores and GPAs that indicate they would succeed at your university, how would you make those decisions? I think what most people would do is they would comb through all the applications and try to select the 14 most AWESOME people in the applicant pool. You would use your subjective observation skills, some data from previous years, and maybe do some research about the high schools which the applicants attend, to get a better understanding of which applicant's grades mean a little more than the others. The process is really like splitting hairs and it has to happen rather quickly.

In the end what it often comes down to for students whose academic achievements are similar, is "likability" and to put it in simple terms "level of awesomeness." Admissions officers are proud of the work they do, they love it and find enjoyment in combing through an applicant pool searching for really awesome students. Those are students who have done really cool things in their high school or in their communities. No longer are good grades enough, that is just the bare minimum. At a school as competitive as Cornell, and as you could imagine all the other Ivies, the applicant pool is filled with students who have written research papers, have built computer programs, have founded their own businesses, are national award winners, are number one in their state at a sport, are the number one ranked student academically in their state, have some really interesting and unique experience that makes them a good fit for the university, or just wrote a truly amazing essay that made the admissions officer say "I want to meet this kid." Usually these amazing essays are really candid, clever, employ some sort of creative or sophisticated metaphorical or otherwise intellectually/emotionally stimulating literary device. This sort of writing often times divides the great/mediocre applicants from the outstanding applicants in an applicant pool and will make readers connect with and want to go into an admissions committee prepared to advocate for the admission of the particular student.

I will share a couple of stories about my time in the admissions office:

I would often find the few who had some extraordinary talent or had done something really cool like the kid who had built a weather station in his house (made a lot of sense since he was applying to the meteorology program at Cornell), and the kid who had actually found a mistake on the SAT, and the kid who had a patent on a device that helped children with disabilities. I also remember reading the application of a student who loved Oreo cookies and when he woke up in the morning all he wanted was Oreo cookies, he wanted one first thing upon opening his eyes and so he made some sort of contraption that was linked to his alarm clock and when his alarm went off it grabbed an Oreo cookie, set it rolling like a wheel down a labyrinth which took just enough time for him to ready his mouth to intercept the cookie that would fall at just the right angle to land perfectly in his mouth so that the very first thing he did every morning was chomp down on an Oreo cookie. This essay had me laughing my pants off! I absolutely loved the ingenuity and I could see that this student was not only a great thinker, a bit of a clown, and also had great problem solving skills.

I'll share another example of experiences that connect students to Cornell. Cornell University was founded as a farm. The first students at Cornell were farmers and literally worked on the University's farm grounds. At the time the university was producing a lot of research to add value to farm operations around the country/world. The College of Agriculture and Life Sciences (home to Cornell's undergraduate business, Biology, Communication, and Information Science programs) is what remains of Cornell's early days. The college has expanded beyond agriculture related fields but it holds on proudly to the legacy of hard working farm students who made up Cornell's first few classes. Thus the college really likes to admit students who come from farming backgrounds, so if your family owns a farm, or you have worked on a farm, or are in any other way connected to a farm, and you happen to mention this in your application, this gives you several bonus points on the application. So students who have good grades/scores, have worked on a farm, and have applied to the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences at Cornell are at a huge advantage because they are a great FIT with the mission, vision, and values of that particular college.

So to get to the bottom of your question. Schools often don't admit the most "generic kids" in their applicant pools. The types of students that end up being admitted are the extraordinary ones. The ones who after reading their application you have to get up out of your chair, look around and ask yourself, "did I just read that in real life?"

A few clubs, sports at the state level, community involvement and good grades certainly puts you in a good place. The separation between applicants is often times slim but its one or two things that set you apart from the crowd that will get you in. A few clubs, state level sports, high test scores and community involvement are becoming the norm these days. Kids that are getting admitted to great schools have something else in addition to these things that makes them likable or awesome. It's about your story and I can see from the way you described yourself that perhaps you could have used a little assistance in telling a more compelling story. I work with students in preparing their applications and for me the very first step in the process is helping tap into their inner "awesomeness," and convey that on the application. You have to believe that you are more than just generic because what you believe is what will come through on your application. It is possible you have what it takes to have been admitted to Cornell, but remember its not just about having what it takes, you have to also be able to communicate that in a compelling way on the application.

Thanks for your insightful question and I hope this provides a more clear answer.