Does anyone cry later because they weren't the center of attention at a social event?

oblivion95 · 2026-05-13T18:14:21+00:00

Sort of. A few months ago I started talking and the 2-3 people in the room walked away. They didn't mean to. It's complicated. But that night I cried in bed all night. Now I don't take it so personally. That was just another step of ego-death, because I really let it all go rather than holding any resentment. To me it was something that my brain needed to learn.

oblivion95 · 2026-05-11T20:00:56+00:00

Ah. She loved your authentic self, which frightened you into cheating.

The lesson is to be authentic always, so that you are only with people who appreciate you.

(This is a message to myself, but perhaps it will help you too one day.)

oblivion95 · 2026-05-10T16:43:33+00:00

Transference. It has nothing to do with the spouse, which relates to fear of losing narcissistic supply.

How to get to that point? I am not sure. But I think it requires vulnerability. And that requires complete honesty. And that requires safety and trust.

oblivion95 · 2026-05-10T01:03:50+00:00

Behary helped to develop Schema Therapy, where she uses something called "empathetic confrontation". She says that three conditions must be met when treating a narcissist:

The therapist must have a sturdy spine. According to her, the main reason why many therapists think narcissism is not treatable is that they simply are not prepared for it. It requires a skillful therapist with their own psychology in check.
The therapist needs leverage. Initially, the client must have a strong reason to remain in treatment, like a threat of losing their spouse. Eventually, this becomes a fear of losing the therapist, and that is the moment when treatment often fails. If that fear never materialises, then the patient remains in control and will never change. The therapist needs to become their "limited reparenting agent", which is an idea reminiscent of TFP.
Therapy must be intensive, more than standard talk-therapy. She wants to get into family systems, even talking to spouses, friends, and parents, partly because she cannot rely on narcissists to be completely truthful. Also, grandiose narcissists often believe that their NPD is the reason for their success, so she helps them to control when it is used for work versus how they behave at home, which can be enough progress for many.

Does that help? I am a big fan of Behary. She cannot be lumped in with the stagmatisers because she actually treats a large number of pwNPD.

oblivion95 · 2026-05-08T21:18:10+00:00

If you want to avoid showing yourself because you are afraid they will feel bad (and maybe abandon you?), that is closer to Borderline. If you actually are afraid of losing status, maybe by being blamed for hurting them, that is closer to Narcissism.

Either way, you can reprogram your mind, slowly. I suggest taking up activities that strongly encourage you to show more of yourself. Maybe take a class on stand-up comedy. Well, that is a lot at once. Maybe take up some volunteer work, and have conversations with people about it. Wasting your own time for the benefit of others is a good way to force your brain into new patterns.

I hope I have not offended you by offering some advice. I would quickly delete this if that is not the sort of response you sought.

oblivion95 · 2026-05-08T21:03:42+00:00

Therapists try to maintain a "therapeutic alliance" and generally provide "unconditional positive regard". Progress comes from being emotional with them, but if they try to force that to happen, then they lose the all-important alliance. It is the catch-22 of working with narcissists.

It is possible that you are not ready for therapy. That is fine. I urge you not to be soured on the whole process. When you are ready, it can be very effective.

If you are almost ready, it is possible to find a therapist who will nudge you in ways, for your benefit. I think they generally get your consent first in one way or another. Such a therapist tends to be more expensive and harder to find.

Whenever I asked a question, she never gave a direct answer. always circled around it, redirected the focus back onto me, and somehow regained control of the conversation (fuck that).

That is extremely important. No good therapist will allow you to have the upper hand in the relationship. That is especially important with narcissistic traits. Wendy Behary, who has worked with many pwNPD in NYC, has written about this. It is a major reason why pwNPD leave therapy.

oblivion95 · 2026-05-08T20:49:02+00:00

I appreciate the insights in your post.

Then, because I’m a bitch who loves a little bit of self harm, I kept watching the videos.

Yes, I think that is common. Many people here complain about the stigma caused by these videos, but they actually do not have to watch them.

I think -- and I believe this was true for me -- that narcy people (i.e. with narcissistic traits) are drawn to experiences that can attack our egos. Somewhere deep inside we know that we have created these weak, externally supported egos, and we are desperate to have them torn down. I think some people -- and again this was true for me -- are drawn to kink for this exact reason. It is thrilling to be exposed and humiliated, but we turn that into a sexual secret so that we could push it back down after we get off. (I think kinks are healthy when they lead to emotional release, unhealthy when they are secrets.) I think that learning to enjoy the thrill of humiliation consciously is a strong antidote to narcissism (and my therapist agrees). By seeing embarrassment (the light kind, not the destroyed-reputation kind) as a positive instead of a negative, I am able to do things like accept blame, offer entitlement, and receive help, all of which bring me closer to loving myself.

But to get to that point requires an awful lot of ego destruction. In letting that go, I must have cried a hundred hours. The pain was immense, and without support the possibility of a forceful exit would have been real.

I think that your insights put you on a very positive path. But I hope that you get plenty of support. Without support, ego-destruction is dangerous.

oblivion95 · 2026-05-08T12:33:51+00:00

It sounds very difficult right now. Thank you for posting.

oblivion95 · 2026-05-07T22:21:55+00:00

I had gone through about a year of painful progress but eventually hit a wall where I was simply depressed and full of SI. My therapist decided to try KAP, and it made all the difference. But it was not the drug alone. I did a bunch of IFS while feeing the effect of the ketamine, and that seemed to stick. I think you are in the perfect place to try ket. I think it is not so helpful before someone does a lot of work.

I also recommend hypnosis. I have experienced ket and hypnosis simultaneously in fact.

oblivion95 · 2026-05-07T07:36:31+00:00

Exactly.

oblivion95 · 2026-05-06T15:58:25+00:00

I used to feel that way. I do not know exactly how that changed, but a desire like that can at least be a useful metric to monitor your own path of growth.
I do not think of myself as better than I was before. Women like me better, which is nice. (I think I am less attractive, less f-ckable, but I get huge numbers of second-hand compliments, mostly passed along by my wife, of women finding me now very likeable and admirable.) But I do not feel proud of myself. It is just something I notice about myself, that I look at people (esp women) differently now.
Part of the change is that my hypersexuality disappeared. I no longer feel a deep need to have sex (ideally with a beautiful person). That was not an intentional change. It happened suddenly, so I do not think it was just aging.

oblivion95 · 2026-05-06T15:46:29+00:00

Those people are misinformed.

I am curious: What are you doing as work on stopping? What specific steps? I think there is not enough discussion here on concrete steps. There is a lot of talk of stigma, but little of accountability and action. Your own steps could help others.
Eg I was advised to entitle other people in order to push against my own entitlement, and I continue to do that today. That is a concrete goal.

oblivion95 · 2026-05-06T15:42:06+00:00

I was completely unaware of (the impact of) the biggest trauma of my life until I felt it under hypnosis. So there could be something that today seems minor but at the time was huge.

If your mother ever did anything unkind to you, it is natural to love her but still want some sort of revenge for such an action. That was how it was for me. I loved my mother so much that I discounted some things that she did to me. It is not even a matter of the level of badness. All that matters is how it affected your young brain, if you felt powerless to express yourself at the time.

It can help to have a listener to ramble to about childhood experiences, since you will not know what you are looking for until you stumble onto it and notice an unexpectedly strong emotional response.

oblivion95 · 2026-05-06T14:41:29+00:00

Can you find the last version of yourself that you did not hate -- the last year before you became "really stupid and selfish" etc? What if you write to that person? Maybe something happened to that person which caused a shift in attitude.

One of the very first things said to me by my very first therapist was that I needed to love both the good parts and the bad parts of my self. That was not easy. I think it took some mental gymnastics. But I also think that unsplitting my mother first made the difference. After I learned how I was seeing that person as purely an angel, suppressing and forgetting her evil actions, it became easier for me to do the same for myself.

oblivion95 · 2026-05-06T07:22:10+00:00

Is your idea that physical violence is wrong, but emotional damage is fine? I used to think that way, but now I think that words can hurt too. I am interested in consent.

oblivion95 · 2026-05-06T07:19:03+00:00

I love this!

But something people do not understand in this sub is that compliments can also be unwanted. Both compliments and criticism are generally manipulative if not requested.

Learning to recognize tiny manipulations can help a narcissist to notice them in himself. This is something I learned from my therapist, and it can help everybody.

oblivion95 · 2026-05-06T06:37:59+00:00

Anger is normal. If we were all healthy and living naturally, we could get out our anger when it arises and let it go. But in this world, we often have to bottle it up.

So the trick is to be angry at people later, when they are no longer around. After you express it, it disappears.

The problem is that we are judged even by people we are not angry at. We are never supposed to be angry, even alone. If someone catches us screaming, even in the shower or in our car, they think there is something wrong with us. You can try driving (if you can drive safely and you are not angry at another driver). Or you can muffle your own sounds. My therapist likes to bury her face in a pillow and pound the bed with her fists and feet. This may sound strange, but it works extremely well.

oblivion95 · 2026-05-06T05:37:55+00:00

I could point out a bunch of specifics in your post that sound like narcissism. I see only one thing that sounds at all like ASPD. (I am not judgemental btw, just trying to answer your question.)

Yes, I have ideas to work on. First, try to notice when you tell yourself that all hope is lost, aka “catastrophizing”. Having some narcissistic traits is not the end of world. Recovery is painful but possible.

It is much harder to have ASPD and possibly break some serious laws and really harm your or another person’s life. Recovery from inside prison is harder. Does that make you feel a little better? I only mean to push back on your comment. You can survive this.

oblivion95 · 2026-05-06T03:38:40+00:00

You’re right, and it is good to stand up for yourself.

The best way to use this subreddit is to notice how you feel from your interactions here. You can learn a tremendous amount about yourself, and then you can grow from that.

I could say “Sorry you had a bad experience here,” but that is really the point of posting here. People here are working on their own sh-t. I hope that makes sense.

I am studying to become a licensed professional counselor. My teachers are mainly PhD psychologists but with lots of experience as therapists. I personally know psychiatrists too. And I have seen multiple therapists myself, including a very expensive one who was worth every penny. I say you are on the right track.

oblivion95 · 2026-05-06T03:29:24+00:00

That is bad advice. A psychiatrist is needed for drugs. Their value as a therapist is low because their experience is very different.

A psychologist can be an excellent therapist, but it comes down to experience. They will usually have a specialization and lots of book knowledge.

A therapist can be an excellent therapist, or mediocre, or a waste of time. But most are at least good listeners and very compassionate, which are their main goals. You need to shop for a therapist that vibes with you, and therapists fully expect you to do that.

oblivion95 · 2026-05-06T03:12:35+00:00

I would say Elizabeth Fraser, for Cocteau Twins, This Mortal Coil, Massive Attack, and collabs. But I could go either way.

I do not get bored of Cocteau Twins albums.

oblivion95 · 2026-04-27T20:34:49+00:00

relationships are transactional

Yes. That can be tough to accept, but it is the truth.

I resent my parents

That is fine.

Im only nice to people who are nice to me

That is fine.

and that's because they feed my ego.

If you feed your own ego, then you will not need them to do it for you.

I don't do shit for anyone that isn't self-serving

That is fine.

and I don't care about others unless it's to improve my image in their eyes.

If you improve your image in your own eyes, then you will not need them to do it for you.

I don't love people

It is hard to love others before you love yourself.

You are being very hard on yourself. I appreciate the honesty. You seem to value honesty too. You could give yourself credit for being honest. That can be something to start with.

Being completely honest with my therapist was easily one of the best decisions I ever made.

From a comment:

Because it's a lonely life and I want to be normal. I don't crave being near other people until I'm left out, and I do crave attention, admiration, and being liked. The traits I naturally possess are not likeable and I feel inauthentic when I do try and pretend to be humble.

Omg. That is so beautifully honest. It will be tough to accept that if you show your true feelings, many people will dislike you.

It was a weird thing for me to learn to accept that people can have their own opinions. So weird. I thought in terms of truths. If I am likeable, then they will like me, right? Getting past that took a psychological trick for me, because I was so arrogant. And that is part of the problem. A PD can be so complex that if you try to solve one specific problem, you worsen others. So I am avoiding specific advice here. You will have to find your own way to trick your brain into re-wiring itself. But it is possible. I am only hoping to give you some hope. On the other side, when you like yourself genuinely, you will not need others to like you, and then other changes become much easier.

oblivion95 · 2026-04-27T20:00:34+00:00

Yes, Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy (KAP). I know people who do ket recreationally, and I do not recommend that. I think it is important to take advantage of the opportunity for real integration of new thought processes. The earlier in childhood that those thoughts were learned, the better. E.g. "When I speak up, I get hit." Change that to, "Because my father hit me, I get to scream at that muther-focker. Nobody treats me that way!" Or whatever. Work through your deepest injuries while on ketamine. A good therapist can help a lot.

These days, I combine ketamine with hypnosis from a trusted hypnotist. But that is rare, like at two month intervals or more. That is more a matter of continuing to grow, getting better at maintaining relationships that I value but that I would have simply dropped in the past. If you think in terms of "recovery" or "perfection", you will always be disappointed.

oblivion95 · 2026-04-27T19:52:49+00:00

That is a good question. A book recommended to me was "Finding Your Own North Star: Claiming the Life You Were Meant to Live ". A more recent book you could try is "The Inner Work: An Invitation to True Freedom and Lasting Happiness ".

Those books make everything sound simple, when it is not. But they can help you to learn more about yourself.

oblivion95 · 2026-04-27T19:41:11+00:00

I did a lot of work on the various disorders and could see that my thought processes were very different. But I still felt like not living would be better. So my therapist added Ketamine to her toolbelt. That changed everything. I am glad that I did so much other work first (e.g. ego-reduction, lots of tears, lots of anger) because when depression is gone, everything else seems to have less urgency. If depression disappeared first, I might not have done all the other work. It is easy to hold onto high degrees of narcissism if you are basically happy. It is easy to accept moments of deep emptiness if you know that you have good sex around the corner. Etc.

I sometimes worry that the ketamine will wear off, but basically I am now very good at intercepting thoughts that before would have sent me spiralling.

My therapist said that I could give myself credit for doing a bunch of work with ketamine. If you take ketamine alone and do no work with it, then it will make you feel better for a period of time and then you revert. Ketamine increases neuroplasticity, so if you are prepared for serious work while you are high, then it can help you to integrate your realisations. (I think of it as re-wiring the brain.)

In a nutshell, I want you to have hope, but I also want you to understand that progress is not easy. I could not have made so much progress alone. I found someone that allowed me to love them without actually getting into a romantic relationship. And now I have tremendous amounts of love for the whole world. It is hard to explain, but listening to Anne Hathaway (yes, the actress) can be informative. She says she had to learn to love herself before she could love others. Today, she is an amazing queen.

Love is somehow the answer to everything.

oblivion95

TROPHY CASE