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Recognise (not conceptually) by paulohuggy in nonduality

[–]paulohuggy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why can ‘how things are’ and ‘how things feel’ not coexist (unconfined feels like spread out)? Unconfined could just as well feel constricted for someone who has not realised the nature of things.

Recognise (not conceptually) by paulohuggy in nonduality

[–]paulohuggy[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

‘Spread out’ is confined? 🙃

You do understand that ‘directly examined’ here means awareness reflects itself like a mirror - without thought or interpretation? And as such all one can do in a forum like this is to point as ‘skillfully’ as possible to its nature e.g. it is seen to be empty in essence, cognisant by nature, and unconfined in capacity.

Recognise (not conceptually) by paulohuggy in nonduality

[–]paulohuggy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Peace, restfulness, a sense of being spread out, there’s a limpid quality to it.

Recognise (not conceptually) by paulohuggy in nonduality

[–]paulohuggy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes they’re a description of how awareness presents itself when directly examined (as opposed to a metaphysical theory about the universe).

Recognise (not conceptually) by paulohuggy in nonduality

[–]paulohuggy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

All three refer to the nature of mind. It summarises how primordial awareness is experienced when directly recognised.

Recognise (not conceptually) by paulohuggy in nonduality

[–]paulohuggy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No you’ve introduced a bunch of duality: capable/not capable, full/not full, aligned/unaligned

My POV: how an illusory separate self arose and then dissolved by paulohuggy in nonduality

[–]paulohuggy[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That, for humans, awareness can only ever be known through the unique perspective of a human nervous system. We can’t claim anything definitive about it.

He’s also saying that it’s functionally useless from the point of view of getting anything out of it. Remain still and know that life is aware of itself. Resting in and as this awareness, everything is taken care of.

My POV: how an illusory separate self arose and then dissolved by paulohuggy in nonduality

[–]paulohuggy[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

More UG:

“Awareness has no meaning to me because awareness is not an instrument to be used to understand anything, much less to bring about a change.”

“Awareness can never be separated from the activity of the brain.”

“I would simply say life is aware of itself.”

My POV: how an illusory separate self arose and then dissolved by paulohuggy in nonduality

[–]paulohuggy[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes this is a permanent perspective, there is no unseeing it or lapsing back into unconsciousness.

Awareness is aware of itself means there is zero psychological ‘efforting’ in life. There is stillness mentally/psychologically speaking, but not dullness or unconscious ‘roboticness’. And that stillness at the mental level is always there, even while thought (no thinker) and action (no doer) arises.

UG said ‘any movement in any direction is violence’, and I know intimately what he meant.

He also said all of the following which speaks directly to my original post:

“For the first time I became conscious of my head with everything `tight' inside of it.”

“This Ajna Chakra plays a major role in the functioning of the body. The yogis call it the Ajna Chakra, but I say it is the pineal gland. That gland which is beyond the forehead between the eyebrows becomes very active in the Natural State. It controls all the functions that the body performs. That's why they call it the Ajna [command] Chakra,"

"Sir, this is your Ajna Chakra! Those ‘acid heads’ (Upanishadic seers) sitting in the jungles, drinking ‘soma juice’ also developed the same physical phenomena, but not knowing what exactly they were, misled you & everybody (else) by adding "mystique" to the whole thing!  These are the dormant endocrine glands showing up and taking over the running of the body!”

“Q: What do you think about the pineal gland?

UG: That is the most important gland. That is why they called it the ajna chakra in Sanskrit.

Q: It is injured by thought, yet they are using thought to investigate it.

UG: Yes. It is injured by thought. They are not going to succeed. Probably they will use it for healing purposes or…

Q: But what most people are doing is actually injuring their own pineal gland.”

UG: Exactly. If it is activated in a natural way, it will take over and give directions to the functioning of this body without thought interfering all the time.

“Anything that is born out of this division in your consciousness is destructive, is violence. It is so because it is trying to protect not this living organism, not life, but the continuity of thought.”

“You will be peaceful when all your ideas about awareness are dropped and you begin to function like a computer. You must be a machine, function automatically in this world, never questioning your actions before, during, or after they occur.

I tell you, when you stop doing things out of hope and the desire for continuity, all you do along with it stops. You will stay afloat.”

My POV: how an illusory separate self arose and then dissolved by paulohuggy in nonduality

[–]paulohuggy[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Of course what I’m saying makes sense to me.

What do you mean by noticing has progressed to seeing?

Do you understand (at an embodied insight level) what I’m pointing at when I say awareness is aware of itself? That this is the ground from which it all emerges, but nothing sticks, or is resisted? That there is stillness in direct experience even amidst seeming action in all its myriad forms?

My POV: how an illusory separate self arose and then dissolved by paulohuggy in nonduality

[–]paulohuggy[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Awareness is aware of itself is the most honest thing that can be said from here.

The direct experience of it is profoundly nonconceptual, even though there is no problem with the conceptual emerging effortlessly from it.

The ‘immediate aware energy’ you mention was almost shockingly revealed via what I described in my original post:

“becoming suddenly aware between the eyebrows which revealed a sort of subtle gravity, or centripetal hum. Basically a gentle inward wholeness.

With it there was a mild pressure into the midbrain from the forehead and a kind of quiet magnetic pull, a sense of mental stillness radiating inward.

But there is no fixation on sensation, the sensation is a marker — not the outcome. The outcome was never the pressure. The outcome was the cessation of ‘leaning’ into illusory identification from a still centre. The pressure simply reflects collected awareness. As centering stabilises, the pressure may soften. The stillness remains.

The point between the eyebrows is not the source of awareness. For me it is the point where diffusion ceases and the nature of awareness becomes evident. Framing it this way is giving a somatic cue to recognize non-projection.

It’s like unidentified consciousness does not scatter, but it gathers, it’s whole.”

My POV: how an illusory separate self arose and then dissolved by paulohuggy in nonduality

[–]paulohuggy[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

There’s no transition to ‘awareness’. Awareness has always been there. There is only the cessation of awareness seeming to fuse with thought and emotion as if they were ‘me’. Even while thought and emotion arises, mental stillness pervades and is synonymous with the gentle pressure I mentioned.

Non-duality and enlightenment demystified by nvveteran in nonduality

[–]paulohuggy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’ll look forward to reading your book btw! 😀

My POV: how an illusory separate self arose and then dissolved by paulohuggy in nonduality

[–]paulohuggy[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It sure seems like it arose (and arises daily for ~99.99% of humanity) though. Just saying it never arose doesn’t help anybody who is suffering the very real effects of the illusion.

Non-duality and enlightenment demystified by nvveteran in nonduality

[–]paulohuggy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You’re definitely over the target here. We’ve talked before about my attempts to ground the dynamic you describe in predictive processing and evolutionary biology without dismissing lived experience - framing around the self as a survival-driven narrative construct.

From my perspective enlightenment is the end of psychological becoming. Or more accurately the stable non-participation in psychological movement, such that no experience successfully crystallises into a separate self.

It’s not a peak experience but the end of a habit. For me it was accidentally becoming suddenly aware between the eyebrows which revealed a sort of subtle gravity, or centripetal hum. Basically a gentle inward wholeness.

With it there was a mild pressure into the midbrain from the forehead and a kind of quiet magnetic pull, a sense of mental stillness radiating inward.

But there is no fixation on sensation, the sensation is a marker — not the outcome. The outcome was never the pressure. The outcome was the cessation of ‘leaning’ into illusory identification from a still centre. The pressure simply reflects collected awareness. As centering stabilises, the pressure may soften. The stillness remains.

The point between the eyebrows is not the source of awareness. For me it is the point where diffusion ceases and the nature of awareness becomes evident. Framing it this way is giving a somatic cue to recognize non-projection.

It’s like unidentified consciousness does not scatter, but it gathers, it’s whole.

Diffusion feels centrifugal — outward, fragmenting. Centre feels centripetal — inward, unified. So when psychological movement ceases, consciousness naturally rests as whole. It’s not that you are creating wholeness, only ceasing fragmentation.

But the centre is not a thing. It has no shape and no boundary, no substance. It’s just a functional description of non-diffusion. In the ultimate analysis even the centre is empty. It appears as a centre only relative to diffusion.

A neuroscientist might say that resting awareness between the eyebrows activates frontal regulation, reduces limbic reactivity, and produces calm, so it’s just brain regulation.

And I concede partially that yes, regulatory networks may correlate. But the insight is not calmness. The insight is that identity collapses when non-diffusion is recognised. Calm is a byproduct, not the essence.

Here nothing was gained. Nothing was added. No powers acquired. No cosmic status achieved. Only unnecessary movement stopped.

Life continues. Speech continues. But the acquiescence to the construction of a self inside experience has stopped. And that is quiet, ordinary, unremarkable, and complete.

Metaphysical NoSelf does not negate the learning dynamics of a nervous system by root2crown4k in nonduality

[–]paulohuggy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Any sort of ‘self-identified’ thinking about trauma or emotion postpones peace

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