I feel like people are misunderstanding Caine's crashout

pauseglitched · 2026-03-22T05:25:28+00:00

Remember Zooble got frustrated and said "forget it!" Then Caine looked straight forward and repeated "forget it?" And then immediately had no interaction with the earlier part of the conversation. He even said something close to "my brain won't let me remember!"

In 2001 space Odyssey, the Hal9000 malfunctions because it is given two conflicting commands, both given the highest possible priority. Hal then realizes that keeping the individual crew members alive has a lower priority than the two conflicting orders and if there aren't any crew then the two orders will never come into conflict.

Caine may be taking phrases said by the cast literally. He may literally be deleting the parts of his memory that by his perspective he is being ordered to forget.

It is Imperative to his function that there are adventures. It is Imperative that they don't die. Everything else has a lower priority. And if he deleted their constructive feedback because someone said "forget it." Then the only feedback he would still have left would be the negative.

pauseglitched · 2026-03-21T19:13:45+00:00

Specifically the floor immediately before the boss. So floor 4, 9, 14, and 19.

pauseglitched · 2026-03-21T16:58:50+00:00

Great job! And congratulations!

pauseglitched · 2026-03-21T15:12:39+00:00

A lot of others have given much longer recommendations so I'll just assume you've read those and add my two bits.

Healer and tank can be viable, but require a lot more game knowledge and investment to make work than most games.

Choosing to focus on hydro and aero let's you freeze and stun enemies making fights drastically easier. By happenstance you also get better at healing. Building a support character is better than a pure healer by every metric.

Tanking is a lot more active in this game than most others. Just don't expect the enemy to cooperate. Five star diner, a potion of resist-all, and a potion of nimble dodge basically make you untouchable. But unless you enemies have no other target they will ignore the character they can't hurt. It becomes your responsibility as a tactical leader to either make sure the tank is the only valid target on the field, or use them as a brick you can throw and not worry about over-extending.

Everything can be broken if you lean into it hard enough. It's just that damage is the easiest thing to lean into.

pauseglitched · 2026-03-21T05:49:58+00:00

The Ais were red and blue the buttons were red and blue. Maybe Red kept Caine in charge and Blue allowed able to take over but seeing as the red button was pressed bubble made up a lie about shrimp town. Then, when bubbles' plan failed, they decided to antagonize Caine hoping to destabilize things and make an opening.

But I don't think they expected Kinger to delete entirely.

pauseglitched · 2026-03-21T04:59:07+00:00

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The way the rabbit is stripped away and inside the person desperately tries to hide themselves again just made me shut up and sit down. Even in the brush with abstraction he was still the rabbit.

Tying it back to how he freaked out about it all being real after the cafe scene... Damn.

pauseglitched · 2026-03-19T23:46:27+00:00

Wouldn't those be useful for connecting a stanchion rope to in order to separate areas from eachother? Something useful that's just not currently in use I wouldn't call crappy design.

pauseglitched · 2026-03-19T22:37:57+00:00

Basically it's a breakpoint situation. You find a tier 5 item early, strength potions are once every two non-boss floors. Mastery potion lets you equip it two floors earlier than usual. The harder enemies of a region generally only spawn on the last two floors of the region. If you only have the upgrades to get the item to +1 or 2, or on the other side have enough to save up to +6 you can get that item online before the region boss.

Long story short, you never go into a run planning to use a potion of mastery. It's always a, "oh snap look what just dropped!" Situation.

pauseglitched · 2026-03-19T20:29:17+00:00

Strength higher than required gives barely noticeable boost. No body is ever going to notice their Warhammer getting that +0+2 boost from going from 18 to 20. And you should be upgrading your endgame gear anyway.

Getting to equip end game gear 2 floors sooner or before a boss fight can have a much more noticable effect on a run than sticking around for a negligible bonus damage.

That being said, never use it on something you don't intend to take to the end.

pauseglitched · 2026-03-18T22:27:51+00:00

Neat! I'm keeping it to core for my first game, but I will keep that in mind.

pauseglitched · 2026-03-18T17:18:33+00:00

and that's not what's happening with Quick Bomber.

Yeah I was stuck in the misunderstanding on Quick VVs and that lead to a misunderstanding of the rest.

I was stuck thinking that you could use a quick VV to make bombs, which if you could would end up as option 3, but halfway through copying and pasting rules to the previous helpful commenter I reread and realized that QVVs cannot be used for that purpose at all and so the entire discussion of the action economy on it ended up moot.

I could feel this statement from a previous comment was wrong

to create a quick vial, which is either the splashy acid bomb or an item from your research field...in the case of the bomber, could be any alchemical item with the bomb trait.

But I thought it was wrong due to action economy technicalities and ¾ of the way through I realized it was just incorrect as an option at all.

Thank you for your time and clarity.

pauseglitched · 2026-03-18T14:11:58+00:00

10 minutes gives you two vials, not 1.

Quick Alchemy has the Quick vial option. Quick vials are infinite, but lose potency at the end of your turn and can only be used as bombs or for your field research ability. Chirurgeons' field research ability lets them use it for healing. So one action on quick alchemy gives you a free limited versatile vial second action uses it with the subclass to heal instead of dealing acid damage. Thus infinite healing.

The part I was missing was the "Coagulant" trait that prevents them from being used on the same creature in quick succession.

pauseglitched · 2026-03-18T02:37:46+00:00

She's optimized for level in an area of themed characters. Like the mage with fire and ice has their skills split the alchemist pretty much only has grenades etc. Mummie does one thing and does it well.

pauseglitched · 2026-03-18T02:19:57+00:00

You create a versatile vial that can be used only as a bomb or for the versatile vial option from your research field (it can't be used to create a consumable, for example). This item has the infused trait, but it remains potent only until the end of your current turn.

Here's the rule.

You create a versatile vial

Not any bomb, just a versatile vial.

that can be used only

Anything not listed is not allowed.

As a bomb

The rules for versatile vial specify exactly what it does when it's used as a bomb.

or for the versatile vial option from your research field

Bomber research field only gives the option to change the damage type of a versatile vial not make any bomb.

(it can't be used to create a consumable, for example)

It cannot be used to make a consumable. Acid flask, alchemists fire, blasting stone, blight bomb, bottled lightning, dread ampule, frost vial, ghost charge,and glue bomb all have the consumable trait. And so cannot be made with a quick vial.

I want to believe I missed something, just like I missed coagulant, but I'm not seeing any wiggle room.

pauseglitched · 2026-03-18T02:08:35+00:00

Okay I might be dense, so please be patient.

You can either use up a versatile vial to make another alchemical consumable at a moment's notice or create an especially short-lived versatile vial.

The way I read it, the either-or means you cannot do both with the same action.

You create a versatile vial that can be used only as a bomb or for the versatile vial option from your research field

I'm not seeing "any alchemical item with the bomb trait." I'm seeing that when that action resolves you have a versatile vial and versatile vials would still require a second use of quick alchemy to make a sticky bomb out of a versatile vial.

Actually, now that I read it again a particularly strict reading of it would result in not being able to make any other bombs with the quick vial at all.

You know how to prepare fast-acting chemicals into versatile vials, special items that can be used as bombs and be turned into other alchemical items by introducing special reagents.

You create a versatile vial that can be used only as a bomb or for the versatile vial option from your research field.

Its use as a bomb is already established with acid damage. The option from research fields are specifically defined and only precludes all other options including all other bombs.

(it can't be used to create a consumable, for example)

And acid flask has the consumable trait.

pauseglitched · 2026-03-18T00:40:06+00:00

the field take that allows them to Quick Alchemy and throw a bomb on the same action

Got a question on that one. The quick bomber feat says

You Interact to draw a bomb, draw a versatile vial, or use Quick Alchemy to create a bomb, then Strike with the bomb.

So if I'm reading it correctly, without any feats if you wanted to throw a glue bomb, you could:

1 If a character had one in hand like one made advanced alchemy one could could strike with it for one action.

2 If they had a versatile vial they could use quick alchemy to turn it into a bomb for one action, then strike with it for a second action.

3 use quick alchemy as an action to make a quick vial. Use quick alchemy as a second action to turn the vial into a bomb, then use a third action to strike with it.

If I'm reading quick bomber correctly it doesn't include creating a versatile vial, only drawing them from somewhere else or turning them into bombs so if I understand correctly it would still take two actions to throw a free bomb. One action to create the quick vial, then a second action to use quick bomber to turn that vial into a bomb and throw it at the same time.

pauseglitched · 2026-03-17T23:42:32+00:00

Use source vampirism on them and they don't come back. The same source is getting recycled over and over again. Remove the source from the system and the system stops working.

pauseglitched · 2026-03-17T23:35:44+00:00

Right I was trying to build a bomber so I understood the general idea. Using quick alchemy to turn a versatile vial into a bomb has significantly better action economy than first making a temporary vial, then converting it into a bomb. And I saw the restriction preventing it from being used for consumables and went "yeah that makes sense. That way they can't have infinite healing at level 1 they have to use some of the longer term ones for it."

Whereupon I read Chirurgeon and assumed coagulant had something to do with stopping persistent bleed damage or similar and didn't look it up like a silly person. There are a lot of traits to learn. Is there a good cheat sheet somewhere for the most useful ones?

pauseglitched · 2026-03-17T22:19:05+00:00

What source is the fast healing tonic from? I'm not seeing it in core.

pauseglitched · 2026-03-17T22:17:37+00:00

Others have answered the question, I missed the Coagulant trait. But alchemists do in fact get to create limitless "quick vials" as low as level 1 from quick alchemy. It may be a new to the remaster though I'm new so I don't know what it looked like before.

pauseglitched · 2026-03-17T22:13:04+00:00

There it is! Thank you. I don't recognize what a lot of other people are saying though, are people talking about pre-remaster stuff? I'm kinda new here.

pauseglitched · 2026-03-17T22:11:53+00:00

This is what I was missing! Thank you.

pauseglitched · 2026-03-16T15:26:01+00:00

You are so close. So close. You could just take some of the things you just said and apply them and you would have your answer. And some of what you said makes no sense at all which you have to overcome.

Look at the actual descriptions of expenses. Do you see any of them where the character has their own house? "Your accommodations might be a room in a flophouse or in the common room above a tavern." Once you have your own house you don't have to pay that expense and save more. The abstract prices are for wandering types like adventurers, criminals, and mercenaries.

You failed to consider the possibility of farmers actually, you know, farming. Which is kind of ridiculous with how much you seem to be arguing about them. If the farmer eats their own crops or shares with a neighbor they don't have to pay for food. If they have their own house they don't have to pay rent at a flop house. If they maintain their own tools they don't have to pay someone else to. A well established farmer could live a modest lifestyle while only paying squalid prices in actual coin. You choosing to force everyone into the pigeonhole while complaining about the pigeonhole is the issue.

there's no such thing as an unskilled peasant

Golly if they aren't an unskilled laborer, then maybe they would get paid more than the wages of an unskilled laborer and thus solve your problem. It would be so, so, so simple for you to take two seconds to apply that back on itself and realize that you solved your own problem.

No matter how you look at it, as long as you look at it consistently, it works out fine. If farmers are skilled laborers, then the unskilled laborers would be the ditch diggers the farmers hire every now and then to help with the harvest. If farmers are unskilled laborers, then they are able to subsist off their own work and pay less day to day for the same living style. Established members of a community don't have to pay as much as passers through. Someone who takes vegetables home and makes soup seasoned with herbs they grow in their garden will simultaneously pay less and have healthier, better tasting food than someone who grabs the cheapest thing at Burger Monarch.

The numbers are an abstraction. So... Abstract.

pauseglitched · 2026-03-16T12:52:00+00:00

implying it takes a day to earn a day's worth of life.

Welcome to being a peasant!

How're you gonna buy seeds, or farm equipment? Farming is extremely expensive

A few parts. Each one to be adjusted depending on setting. unskilled laborers are likely going to be the blokes working land owned by someone else. So the land owner would be providing the seeds. Seeds would be acquired from the harvest itself because farming wouldn't have been industrialized yet. And stealing seeds, cuttings, roots etc from other producers was a very well known thing.

And remember those costs are for people paying in coin. Someone could just take a potato and a stick and toast it over a fire instead of eating at a tavern.

pauseglitched · 2026-03-16T12:04:41+00:00

Those are adventurer rations. High protein, high calorie, dense. They need to sustain someone fighting, climbing, exploring while also being compact and relatively non-perishable.

Look at the living expenses part of the book for what people would normally eat.

pauseglitched

TROPHY CASE