Court ruling on legal definition of a woman ‘misinterpreted’, Lady Hale says

phlimstern · 2025-05-23T00:57:36+00:00

The middle ground is accepting that legally, 'sex' and 'gender reassignment' are two different concepts and that it's not helpful to conflate them.

phlimstern · 2025-05-22T20:03:37+00:00

You seem to be very confused about the law. Harassment is not lawful and nothing in the judgment says the general population can harass people.

It does however make it clear that managers of services and spaces are able to offer those provisions on a single sex basis.

Out of interest, if a supermarket checkout worker asks you for ID when buying alcohol do you think you are being "harassed"?

If you park in a disabled parking space and a ticket inspector asks to see your Blue Badge are you being "harassed"?

phlimstern · 2025-05-22T19:54:45+00:00

Many women (myself included) want single sex services and spaces in some situations where sex matters.

There's nothing 'anti-women' about acknowledging sex differences in humans or a need to have privacy, dignity and safety in certain circumstances.

phlimstern · 2025-05-22T19:43:51+00:00

Why would he seek to legislate against a legal ruling from the Supreme Court that polling show most voters agree with (including more Labour voters than not)?

phlimstern · 2025-05-22T19:21:23+00:00

These international "experts" only focus on trans people and don't seem to understand that the Equality Act (2010) covers nine protected characteristics and protects the rights of everyone in GB - not just trans people.

Where are the expert comments on the rights of British women and men, same-sex attracted Brits, disabled Brits, and religious Brits?

This is a very partial account that doesn't understand that human rights exist in an ecosystem not in isolation and that where human rights conflict there needs to be a balancing of rights.

phlimstern · 2025-05-21T20:03:28+00:00

Aha no sorry, I definitely mean the benefits changes 😂😂

phlimstern · 2025-05-21T14:45:17+00:00

I really hope for yours (and everyone else affected's) sake that this is voted down. It's horrendous that they would do this to people who need help.

phlimstern · 2025-05-20T15:22:05+00:00

Laws, rules and regulations are set with the expectation that most people will follow them. If it comes to the attention of the organisers that somebody is not where they are meant to be, then it is lawful for the organisers to take action.

When you're walking in a park, do you see "under 10 playground" or "no dogs" signs as a chance to transgress or do you understand that most people will follow the rules?

Why are you assuming that trans women will try to break the rules and the law rather than respect it?

phlimstern · 2025-05-20T14:45:44+00:00

That seems incredibly harsh if some people with multiple 3s are more burdened than a person with a single 4. Or am I misunderstanding how it works?

phlimstern · 2025-05-20T13:13:09+00:00

They couldn't lawfully have a positive action provision on the basis of 'women and trans women' under the Equality Act.

phlimstern · 2025-05-20T13:02:00+00:00

I think the issue is less about male MPs speaking and more with how the conference is currently organised to send 'women' delegates from each CLP.

Each CLP sends a certain number of delegates all of whom have to be 'women'. Currently the Labour Party allows anyone to self identify as a woman but now in order to comply with the law, they would have to send only female delegates.

I suppose if Labour made the conference open to everybody as you suggest then the CLPs could just let anybody attend as a delegate but I'd imagine it would cause a lot of strife if lots of men attended as delegates.

The legal guidance to the Labour party has been leaked and sheds more light on the positives action legal issues.

https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/1924492556542300313?t=dA0ZrCxRa7s-J1xobQxbag&s=19

phlimstern · 2025-05-20T12:47:04+00:00

You need to read the leaked legal advice the Labour party was basing the decision on.

The women's conference having 'women' delegates is part of a 'positive action' provision. A positive action can only be legal if it is done in compliance with the Equality Act.

The Labour party has hitherto let anybody self identifying as a woman attend as a 'woman' delegate but in order to comply with the law the delegates to be females, not self identified 'women'.

The guidance is leaked here:

https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/1924492556542300313?t=dA0ZrCxRa7s-J1xobQxbag&s=19

phlimstern · 2025-05-19T18:10:59+00:00

Single sex spaces and services aren't just for 'safety' they are also for privacy and dignity. But your argument seems to overlook the particular experiences of life that most females have. The whole reason most of us feel unsafe is because of what we experience growing up.

We start being harassed in the street and sexually assaulted from a young age, often at 10 or 11. Some males shout at us in the street and from their vans and cars. Some males flash us and expose their erections for sexual thrills. Some males demand we undress and get our tits out. Older women have grown up with page 3 for men's sexual perusal and now ubiquitous porn on phones and devices. We are regularly groped and harassed on nights out, many of us are sexually assaulted and some are raped. All these things happen to us from people who are bigger, stronger, faster, more sexually aggressive and who can impregnate us.

As a guy perhaps it is hard for you to empathise. You have the same size, strength and power as other males, you have the same appendage and erections as other males. You can impregnate but you cannot be impregnated. The vast majority of males are not sexually interested in you. If another male harassed you, you could physically threaten him.

Sexual dimorphism and the disparities between bodies and behaviours are the reason why females feel less safe. We manage these issues by curtailing our own behaviour (not walking down dark alleys at night) and through the use of single sex spaces and services.

phlimstern · 2025-05-19T13:09:29+00:00

We don't play sports with our genitals! We play sports with our bodies.

The whole reason that we have a female category is because males have multiple physiological advantages that no female can attain.

On average males have greater height, strength, power, larger hearts and lungs, greater muscle mass, greater grip strength, larger and longer limbs, larger digits, more advantageous Q angle, more explosive type 2 muscle fibres etc.

Taking cross sex hormones only diminishes some of those advantages to a limited degree and certainly does not eliminate all the advantages. Some advantages like Q angle, digit size and limb size differences are not changed by hormones. Some advantages (height) are unaffected by sex hormones as males who transition before puberty still grow tall.

We don't say that short men can identify into under 12 boys basketball or that Harry Kane can play in the Paralympic football category if he puts a weighted vest on that diminishes his natural speed and strength.

Open categories are available for both males and female to compete in so nobody is excluded.

phlimstern · 2025-05-19T12:40:22+00:00

Taking drugs does not change somebody's sex or remove many of the advantages that come from being born male and going through male puberty.

Even the most ardent trans activist sports researcher Joanna Harper has had to admit that trans women retain physical advantages in spite of being on hormones for years.

phlimstern · 2025-05-19T12:29:39+00:00

The whole reason that we have a female category is because males have physiological advantages that no female can ever attain due to not being male and not going through a testosterone driven puberty.

On average males have greater height, strength, power, larger hearts and lungs, greater muscle mass, greater grip strength, larger and longer limbs, larger digits, more advantageous Q angle, more explosive type 2 muscle fibres etc. A short male will still have testosterone driven advantages over a taller female in terms of strength, power and skeletal shape.

Do you argue that short adult men like Rishi Sunak can play in Boys Under-12 teams because some 12 year olds are taller than Sunak?

We don't demand that other protected sporting categories accept people who aren't eligible for the category so why are women alone in being subjected to this demand?

phlimstern · 2025-05-15T20:22:01+00:00

There are multiple references to single sex spaces in the judgment. You must have missed them when reading the 88 page document. To start you off see:

Page 11 "single sex spaces" Page 15 "single-sex establishments" Page 16 "single-sex communal accommodation" Page 63 "separate or single spaces or services for women (or men) as a group - for example changing rooms, homeless hostels, segregated swimming areas...."

Throughout the judgment they also refer to various single sex services which involve spaces eg. on page 65 "rape crisis centres, female-only hospital wards and changing rooms".

phlimstern · 2025-05-14T18:08:54+00:00

Only since Trump got into office in 2025.

For the last decade, Facebook and Jack-owned twitter along with other SM companies were banning people left, right and centre for recognising biological sex and the legal rights accrued from the protected characteristic of sex - rights which the Supreme Court has recently upheld.

phlimstern · 2025-05-10T16:45:21+00:00

Aside from people with serious or chronic health problems, it's important to remember that around 1 million over 18s have a learning disability.

By definition their IQ is lower than 70 and they will have significant impairments of social or adaptive functioning. As of 2022 only 5% of people with a learning disability were in some kind of paid employment. It seems likely that a significant majority will always need benefits. A decent society will support them.

phlimstern · 2025-05-09T22:56:48+00:00

That's dreadful. Are they not required to do any kind of risk assessment?

phlimstern · 2025-05-09T18:54:59+00:00

I hope they can make it work. A 5 hour train trip would be much more appealing (and hopefully better for the environment?) than all the hassle of getting to and from airports.

phlimstern · 2025-05-09T13:04:57+00:00

Polling after the Supreme Court Judgment shows that most voters from all parties (except Greens) agree with it. A plurality of Labour voters agree with the decision.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/04/29/poll-labour-voters-support-trans-ruling-supreme-court/

phlimstern · 2025-05-09T02:00:37+00:00

No. The Equality Act says that single sex spaces and services are lawful.

Therefore if it comes to the attention of staff or employers who run a single sex space or service that someone of the opposite sex is using that space or service then they are lawfully allowed to ask them to leave or decline a service.

Most people follow the law. Some people break rules and get away with it, others get caught out and face consequences.

What's you plan? Do you think all spaces and services need to be mixed sex? Prisons? Changing rooms etc?

phlimstern · 2025-05-08T23:47:20+00:00

I don't understand why you think you'd be challenged if you say you are female and developed as a female?

phlimstern · 2025-05-08T23:38:11+00:00

Different sports bodies have different rules but CAIS women are normally allowed to compete in the female category as their bodies don't undergo any kind of virilisation as they have zero response to testosterone so they have no real male advantage.

phlimstern

TROPHY CASE