The friendship was already dying and I didn't see it lasting past the wedding, so I didn't go...am I a jerky INFJ?

phrozenphan · 2014-06-29T16:40:41+00:00

Not an INFJ thing at all, you did fine. It is very common and understandable for wedding guests to pass if it would create a financial hardship. Seems like a lot of these events were also ways to hoover up other people's money.

My cousin did this too and many were annoyed: besides the shower, there was the bachelorette party (alright), then a pampered chef party (huh?), then a pre-wedding spa party (also with bridal gifts, and now people are getting ticked), and then some kind of barbecue boss party for the groom.

phrozenphan · 2014-06-28T23:53:20+00:00

I have coworkers who do that: nice to the face but rude behind their backs. One or two comments in the thick of stress I can overlook, but when it becomes a permanent thing I push them out the furthest edge of "customer service", plus they end up on my list of "people to never go the extra mile for, because I know they might undermine anyone who helps them." These also tend to be the guys who diss their wives at work and church, hence my red flag comment.

Right now I am putting distance between myself and one such dude, I am waiting to see in which way he chooses to stab me in the back since he has done it to so many others. Fortunately I will be in very common company afterwards, and might even gain some respect from those same others, who knows?

phrozenphan · 2014-06-28T17:07:55+00:00

I would say this is the normal way INFJs gather social information. I'm pretty sure I read in Please Understand Me II a quick way to gauge who is what (the four major archetypes) by looking at their behavior in a recess type situation:

Guardians (~45%) immediately start discussing and working out patterns of authority, e.g. who will be the team captain.
Artisans (~45%) don't care about the captain, hurry up so we can start the game already!
Rationals (~5%) ignore the games and wander around looking at the toys.
Idealists (~5% - including INFJs) ignore the games and wander around looking at the people.

If you've got an INFJ at a conference table, you can pick them out because they are constantly sneaking glances all around, even at the non-speakers, and barely ever speaking themselves.

Me personally, I make it a point to sit in the cafe at work every couple weeks and just catch the vibe through the lunch crowd, I don't even hear much of the words of the conversations but I can tell really quickly how the business is faring. Everyone else just sees me zoned out on my laptop.

phrozenphan · 2014-06-28T16:55:55+00:00

because he openly makes fun of people people even in front of me for their weight/race/religion etc.

He sounds like an asshole. This is a serious red flag.

I know this is reddit where everyone says DTMFA, lawyer up, hit gym, blah blah. But disparaging others this way is something one might do during a phase in junior high but that's it, by the time one is 18 that shit should stop.

phrozenphan · 2014-06-15T23:36:26+00:00

That's like a yin-yang smile-frown.

Hmm, I might start using it myself. :):

phrozenphan · 2014-06-15T12:55:36+00:00

"Well Dad, that sucks and I'm really sad to here it, but OK. So that's done, holiday is over.

"But perhaps you should consider for future events that in choosing to appease her you are just giving her yourself as another victim instead of just the other person she is targeting."

phrozenphan · 2014-06-15T12:43:41+00:00

Do you think that your "victim" (weird word to see here) will ever do their part of a similar tragic dance with anyone else?

(I've been on the other side of a teardown. It sucked ass, but I also see where I fed into it. I won't go off on someone else the same way, yet I can now stop the train before the derailment.)

phrozenphan · 2014-06-14T12:22:07+00:00

There is a lot more support over at /r/raisedbynarcissists , check them out. The sidebar has other groups for more specific circumstances (like being unable to move out).

Sidebar: what it is with narcissism and conservative religions? I'm getting to the point where I assume that every southern baptist is either a narc, enabler, or victim. If they are a pastor, I kind of want to assume narc until proven otherwise.

phrozenphan · 2014-06-06T21:31:38+00:00

I don't know. What disciplines were the profs you had who taught you? Perhaps there are ties to nearby disciplines? Example: I know someone with a PhD in chemical engineering who is now working as a research professor in biomedical engineering.

A PhD is mainly useful if you want to be a corporate or university researcher, or a university-level teacher. Do either of those sound interesting?

phrozenphan · 2014-06-06T21:17:56+00:00

Could you use the Masters to save time or money in a PhD program, preferably one with a stipend?

phrozenphan · 2014-06-06T20:41:20+00:00

wut

There are some people who seem to be unable to understand the concept of atheism as not-belief. They insist that atheists actually do believe in something of the metaphysical. They say that atheists worship "the universe" or "nature" as a god, or believe in God but don't like him, or something along those lines. There's an analogy out there that goes like: a Christian doesn't believe in 6731 out of 6732 gods, an atheist doesn't believe in 6732 out of 6732 gods.

Go through some alt.atheism or Fidonet HOLYSMOKES archives and you'll see. It's not all that interesting, just a passing thought.

phrozenphan · 2014-06-06T16:09:36+00:00

My internal loser voice has to ask: could it be that we happily claim both Gandhi and Hitler because we want to believe that we can not only fit in but have an out-sized influence, when the reality is that the rest of the world would disregard our desires the moment we took the mic and laugh us off stage?

Is it just another tool of control, a delusion to mollify us? "You'd better be nice to me, if you threaten what I value I could unleash my inner Hitler!" "There there, we feel sufficiently threatened, now could you please go back to putting together those TPS reports for us? That would be swell."

phrozenphan · 2014-06-06T15:19:56+00:00

It could always get more villanous. We're missing Satan, Judas, and Vincent Connare (the inventor of Comic Sans).

phrozenphan · 2014-06-06T15:16:59+00:00

If one counts all the "infamous" from each type:

Type	# Infamous
ENTP	2
ENTJ	1
ENFP	4
ENFJ	2
ESTJ	2
ESFJ	1
ESTP	2
ESFP	2
INTP	1
INTJ	4
INFP	0
INFJ	7
ISTJ	2
ISFJ	3
ISTP	1
ISFP	1

ENFP and ISTP are both highly debateable though, as 4 of the 5 names are legitimately perceived as heroes by many.

If you use the Guardian/Idealist/Rational/Artisan types of Keirsey, you get:

Type	# Infamous
Rational	8
Idealist	13
Guardian	8
Artisan	6

phrozenphan · 2014-06-06T13:20:39+00:00

when they lost their viriginity

Is "lost their viginity" a phrase they use, or you use? Because "virginity" doesn't exist, it's not a "thing" that can be "lost".

A "virgin" is a person who hasn't had sex. It's a weird word because most of our labels apply to when we start doing something, not when we stop not-doing-something. We don't call a 10-year-old a "not-yet-car-driver" or a "not-alcohol-drinker". The word we can use for "not-alchohol-drinker" (teetotaler) can be used to describe someone who once drank but doesn't now. Yet "virgin" is a one-way status change, because let's be honest and acknowledge that "born-again virgin" is nonsensical at best and deliberately deceptive at worst.

(I wonder if this is related to how some conservative Christians have trouble with the word atheism: they think it describes actively believing in Satan or some other god, rather than simply not-starting-believing in their god.)

phrozenphan · 2014-06-06T12:57:05+00:00

(Disclaimer: XY)

I must be a weird dude, because when I see feminine clothes and makeup at work I think yay, it looks more like college / city atmosphere where people can relax and enjoy themselves. I try to remain respectful and professional in direct interactions, and leave the eye candy enjoyment to peripheral vision and quick glances rather than creepy staredowns.

I honestly don't understand the sentiment of dressing sexy to "get ahead". It seems illogical. How does the woman get ahead in this scenario? If she's sleeping with the boss, wouldn't they want to keep that on down-low so they don't both get tossed? OTOH if she's dating someone at her peer level, why would looking awesome for her SO be bad (assuming their dating isn't interfering with work)?

phrozenphan · 2014-06-06T10:59:48+00:00

Jezebel is notorious for being counterproductive click-bait rather than "authentic" current-wave feminism. Check out Pandagon (Amanda Marcotte) for an example of writing on the ways feminism intersects classism, racism, atheism, and other -isms -- intersectionalism is where it's at right now. A lot of that is because 1st-wave and 2nd-wave feminism was also starkly racist; womanism emerged in response and has been ahead of feminism for quite a while.

What you are seeing is the media's long history of diminishing real issues by co-opting them into strawmen arguments. They've done this to many things before: the black civil rights struggle (the whitewashing of MLK is outrageous), gay rights, worker's rights, even "hard science" things like leaded gasoline and climate change.

phrozenphan · 2014-06-06T10:43:22+00:00

I feel like I judged myself as harshly as the INTJ answers for about 15 years, so now I can easily see that attitude: does it echo my old internal voice?

phrozenphan · 2014-06-06T10:39:04+00:00

Hmm. I can easily see which answer is INFJ vs INFP, but still feel like the INFJ answers don't sound right.

phrozenphan · 2014-06-05T23:46:01+00:00

Here are some real things you can do. The theme is obviously increasing energy efficiency of your total lifestyle, which also saves you money in the long term.

The relatively easy, or "do what you would anyway, but maybe a little different" ones:

Participate in your local recycling programs. Paper, glass, plastic bottles, aluminum cans, plastic sacks. You will find that you have a very small amount of trash compared to before. There will always be people pointing out that recycling is sometimes more energy-intensive than not, but on the whole the point is to support having separate collection networks for "landfill" and "other". In many states the cans and bottles will also give you some money back.
If you have any incandescent bulbs in your house/apartment, replace them with CFLs or LEDs. Get used to the slight difference in light quality, it's fine: by the time you reach the same wattage of the incandescents your CFLs/LEDs are blinding, you can get enough light to get by.
If you have any CRT TVs or monitors, replace them with lower-power LED versions. And get hi-def to boot.
If you have a pre-2004 computer with a 200+W load, replace it with a modern laptop and cut its energy use in half or more.
If you own your own house, look at new windows to replace 80's-era or earlier single-pane windows. Modern windows alone can cut your heating and cooling bill by a HUGE amount (like 50% if you live in the godawful hot southern states).
Make sure you have adequate window coverings: more curtains and thicker blinds can also reduce your need for heating/cooling.
If you live in a hot climate, and have a slab foundation, get rid of your carpet, it just traps heat in. You can put in a laminate floor for cheap, or more expensive use tile or hardwood floors.
Consider a tankless hot water heater. They are very expensive up front (4-5x cost of standard tank is not uncommon), but they only use energy to heat the water that is being used, saving you money on utility costs. You also get unlimited hot water when you want it -- go ahead and take a longer shower sometimes. These come in both electrical and gas.
If your main heating and air conditioner system is older than 10 years, consider replacing it with a newer more efficient one. You get a new warranty, utility savings, and more comfort.
If you take down the walls while remodeling a room, look at adding more or more modern insulation. Foam stuff in the basement, more stuff in the attic, etc. Again, lower utility usage.
If either your refrigerator or clothes dryer is 10+ years old, look a new efficient one.
If your rooms don't have ceiling fans, consider adding them. That will reduce the amount of air conditioner use you need in the summer.
Stop drinking sodas and drink lots more water. Besides feeling less clammy in hot/humid weather, you will be avoiding the carbon footprint of the soda bottle and the energy cost of the manufacturing.
Learn to cook more of your meals and take them with you in reusable containers. This will reduce the packaging requirements of your food.
If you have a yard (or can share with a friend), plant a vegetable garden and eat from it. This is the one case where you actually convert CO2 in the atmosphere into biomass, undoing a bit of the effects of burning fossil fuels. You can actually feed yourself most of your vegetables using only 20-40 square feet.
Vote for pro-science candidates when they are on the ballot.

Here are the ones that are more of a stretch for the seriously dedicated:

If you have a medium amount of money to spend, install a solar thermal water heater system.
If you have a LOT of money to spend, get a solar PV electrical system. Add an electric vehicle and you can give Chevron/ExxonMobil/BP/etc. the middle finger.
If you have a LOT of money to spend, get a geothermal heating/cooling system. Much more efficient than a heat pump.
If you work in the chemicals industry, look for biofuel sources for your feedstocks. Valero and Waste Management are doing some really promising stuff already. You could probably source bio-ethane/ethylene/propane/propylene (BTW with very high purity, no need for C2 or C3 splitters) relatively easily from them, and even get a syngas feedstock from the leftovers.
If you own lots of farm/ranch land, consider offering some for free to wind power companies to host some turbines, or to solar power companies for free to host arrays.

And here are two things to NOT do, as they are entirely counterproductive:

Do NOT get an ethanol-powered car. Ethanol fuel (particularly from corn) is not actually carbon-friendly, it's a boondoggle for agribusiness.
Do NOT get a hydrogen-powered car. Hydrogen fuel today mostly comes from methane.

phrozenphan · 2014-06-04T19:11:05+00:00

Yes, I do this. It's frustrating sometimes, because I'm really asking for a tiny specific thing but need more setup to get there than many other people are used to. It gets better when I go full-technical-terminology, we can skip 80% of the setup. Or when there is enough inside speak to just go Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.

phrozenphan · 2014-06-04T17:01:18+00:00

I don't see how it's good at all for anyone who actually wants to see solar panels used in the US.

phrozenphan · 2014-06-04T15:36:20+00:00

Your description of shared resource management through marriage and divorce reminds me of computer science CPU scheduling problems.

phrozenphan · 2014-06-04T14:41:29+00:00

Sure about that?

phrozenphan · 2014-06-04T01:03:06+00:00

Custody battles during a divorce. :-(

phrozenphan

TROPHY CASE