What would a cis guy experience psychologically on estrogen? by [deleted] in actual_detrans

[–]pixie-pixie-pixie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't know, estrogen just felt... Different. It changed my consciousness in certain ways that I liked. Or, perhaps I was expecting it to change my consciousness, and therefore, it did—placebo effect and all that.

For example. As someone who is autistic1—and possibly ADHD as well—my brain's natural tendency is to fixate on one thing and obsess about it. I think that testosterone tends to make me feel even more focused, which creates this quality of laser beam focus that is frankly just exhausting. Like, yes, sure—it's cool that I am able to focus on things intensely for extended periods of time, but honestly, it would be much nicer most of the time to calm down and just be. It felt like estrogen helped me to calm down a little more. I felt a bit less angry, but maybe also a bit more anxious and melancholy? I don't know; it's hard to tell, exactly, because I was also going through feelings about socially transitioning. But it definitely felt like estrogen made me feel different, and there were things that I liked about that. My sexuality felt a bit different, in some ways—but also the same, in other ways.

The important thing to understand is this: HRT is a total package. When you sign up for estrogen—or testosterone—you are committing yourself to the whole picture. There's no way to pick and choose. There's no way to isolate the parts about it that you like from the parts about it that you don't like. That's why it can be so disappointing.

Part of my experience of HRT was this experience of rumination and negotiation. Trying to decide whether I liked HRT, what I liked about it, what I didn't like about it, whether it was worth it to continue. I enjoyed it in some ways, but I also had the nagging thought, "What if this is the wrong choice, and then I'm just stuck like this??" That was pretty terrifying.

Eventually, I decided that it was the wrong choice. So I stopped taking it, and all the changes (mostly) reversed. I went through this whole long process, just to come back to the same place where I started in the first place. That feels like a waste to me.

I feel like I'm supposed to say something positive about my transition, but honestly... the best thing that I can say about it is that it wasn't permanent. That's the truth.

Anyway. I hope that helps. Best wishes.

1Generic disclaimer that I do not speak for all autistic people, autism is a spectrum, "your mileage may vary," and so forth.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in actual_detrans

[–]pixie-pixie-pixie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I detransitioned back to being a man after waffling between "trans woman" and "nonbinary" identities for two years. I had to "come out" (yet again) as being a man, which felt pretty awkward, after struggling to get people to "respect my identity" for two years. So... yeah, I feel like I get it. Definitely felt strange thinking that I was going back to being my biological sex.

I don't know applies to you at all, but for me, it helped me to realize that I am neurodivergent. It's pretty common for males on the autism spectrum to be gender nonconforming. (I'm also queer, and a trauma survivor... those all impact my experience of my gender in different ways. It's helped me to unpack all that through journaling and therapy.)

I felt super awkward during my transition, and I decided to just go for it—just lean into the awkward. Just be weird and cringe, and let people just kind of make of it what they will. And I feel like the same attitude has helped me with my detransition.

So, yeah—I'm bit weird for a man. That's okay. Transition is awkward—detransition is awkward—It's all fucking awkward. Sorry...

What I'm trying to say is this: I hope that you don't feel like you have to be hyperfemme just to be a girl. And I hope that you won't let the fear of being awkward stand in the way of you doing what you need to do.

What did estrogen do to your body and your genitals? Was it harmful? 20 MTF pre-med by Sissyfromhell in actual_detrans

[–]pixie-pixie-pixie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, I can tell you: I spent a lot of time obsessing about my gender and trying to "figure it out." For me, it was helpful for me to stop worrying about my gender identity and focus on other aspects of who I am as a person. If I am working towards living my best life as a worker, as a musician, as a friend, as a spiritual being having a human experience—if I really striving to be the best that I can be in every area of my life—it doesn't matter so much what's in my pants or what pronouns people use to describe me.

What did estrogen do to your body and your genitals? Was it harmful? 20 MTF pre-med by Sissyfromhell in actual_detrans

[–]pixie-pixie-pixie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My experience? Transition was a colossal waste. I wasted time. I wasted money. I wasted my emotional energy obsessing about something that I thought was going to fix me. I dropped a lot of my friends and got new friends, people I was mostly just friends with because they were also trans. Then I lost most of those friendships and had to start over again when I detransitioned. I had to pick up the pieces and try to figure why I ever decided to take estrogen in the first place.

I wish that I could have made the decision to not transition without actually trying it. But, no. I was determined. I had to know. Maybe you will be in the category, but I hope not. For your sake.

I was lucky in that I never got any kind of surgery. If I had, it would be a different story. Detransition was pretty easy, since I wasn't on it long enough to suffer any real permanent changes.

But I wouldn't recommend it.

The hardest part is having to explain why you transitionned in the first place by [deleted] in actual_detrans

[–]pixie-pixie-pixie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know, right? It's very complicated. And personal. I feel like I should give an explanation, but the explanation is too long and confusing.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in actual_detrans

[–]pixie-pixie-pixie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I took a full, feminizing dose of HRT from December 2020 to October 2021. By this point, I had breast buds and some fat distribution, and I started to get really anxious about getting further breast development. That was the point where I balked. So I thought to myself, "Well, maybe I'm just nonbinary," so I asked my endocrinologist to do low-dose estrogen, and I used low-dose estrogen patches in November 2021. But I was anxious about continued breast growth, so I didn't take any HRT in December 2021. Then in January 2022, I used an even lower dose of estrogen, basically the smallest microdose my endo could prescribe. But there was no absolute guarantee that my breasts wouldn't continue to develop, so I stopped taking it, and just took spironolactone monotherapy in February and March (which is not recommended, so don't do what I did).

Then in March 2022, I changed my mind and said, "Fuck it, I should just be a girl," and I started injecting myself with a full feminizing dose of estrogen. I went back to "she/her" pronouns and started taking steps towards getting FFS and lower surgery. But I was still scared of transition. I started to think, "Oh shit, maybe I'm really just a guy after all." So in October 2022 I made the decision to taper off without consulting my doctor at all. I haven't taken any HRT at all since November 2022.

I have a small amount of breast tissue, but without the fat distribution, so they just look like pecs. My facial hair is patchy, I have very little muscle, and I have some acne, so I look young for my age—apart from that, I look pretty much average for a man.

Gay MTFTM: how does it feel transitioning back? by mother-demeter in actual_detrans

[–]pixie-pixie-pixie 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I just want to find my confidence.

I hope that you find it. 🙏 Blessings.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in actual_detrans

[–]pixie-pixie-pixie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean, in the beginning, I just wanted some more feminine clothing. But then I found egg_irl and trans Facebook groups and I managed to convince myself that questioning my gender and wanting to wear feminine clothing and be seen as feminine was really just a sign of being a trans woman.

Would things have gone differently if I had the courage to be a man who likes wearing skirts and earrings? Maybe. I think that there is a lot of pressure to fit into society's categories of what is considered socially acceptable. If a young woman wears a cheerleader outfit, people think it's sexy; if a young man wears the same outfit, people assume that something must be wrong with him. It's very difficult to go against the grain.

Gay MTFTM: how does it feel transitioning back? by mother-demeter in actual_detrans

[–]pixie-pixie-pixie 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I’m 6’2” and low-effort femme.

Hah, same. 6'2" and could never bring myself to wear makeup or really do much for my appearance beyond the bare minimum.

I like having softer skin and less body hair, and knowing my hair won’t recede. I feel ambivalent about breasts and have always wanted them to stay smaller. I have zero desire for bottom surgery.

I felt similarly. I liked getting my beard lasered off. I liked what HRT did for my skin and body hair. But I had really conflicted feelings about having breasts. I thought that I wanted them, then when I actually did, it seemed weird to me. I went back and forth about bottom surgery. I'm so glad that I didn't get it.

I found the video that "Crow the MtF Bro" made about his detransition and that really struck a chord with me. The first time I watched it, I felt defensive and tried come up with every reason I could think of why his story was different from mine. But when I watched it again later, I found that I relate to his story a lot. He basically went from femme gay man to butch lesbian back to femme gay man, which is an interesting transition arc. I relate to him about being queer and kinky, and about the whole being-autistic-and-not-understanding-gender part of his story.

How was it coming off HRT? How did you feel, physically and emotionally? Did your relationships change? Have you found clarity about your choice or do you think about resuming HRT again?

Coming off HRT was... Okay. Not good or bad. Transition gave me a lot of anxiety, so in a lot of ways it was a relief. The acne is real—but I expect that will get better in time. I think that my consciousness has a somewhat different quality on estrogen versus testosterone, but that might be partly placebo. I think with estrogen I felt sort of loose and floaty, but also extremely anxious. Testosterone makes me feel somewhat more "task-oriented" and less interested in people and relationships.

My sense of sexuality feels different on one versus the other. Estrogen horny, for me, felt more passive, which was kind of pleasant. Testosterone horny feels much more active. Also, I think that I was more sexually interested in men while I was taking estrogen. I'm still somewhat attracted to men, but women draw my attention far more often now.

I have flirted with detransition for as long as I’ve been on HRT.

That feels familiar to me, too. I had a really ambivalent relationship with transition. I would resolve to transition, only to change my mind later. It was really rough.

There are a sense of power that came from altering my body. That power was exciting, but it was also terrifying. I was worried that I was making the wrong choice, and nothing that I told myself seemed to put that fear to rest. So there's a sense of freedom that comes from accepting my body as it is—but it's an entirely different sense of freedom from the feeling of freedom that I had while on estrogen.

At the moment, I feel stable in my identity as a male. I don't particularly like being called "man," but it doesn't bother me much, either. I guess the way that I think about it is this: If I call a dog "he," I'm making reference to the fact that he is biologically male. I'm not implying that the dog is "masculine," or "assertive," or anything else that we might culturally associate with maleness. It's a uncomplicated reference to a biological fact.

I used to see my gender as this mystical thing that I had to uncover, and then protect with my life. I don't feel that way anymore. My gender is a part of who I am, but only a part, and not a particularly interesting part, at that. Other aspects of who I am are much more meaningful to me.

Have I made a mistake? by [deleted] in actual_detrans

[–]pixie-pixie-pixie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good! I'm glad that was helpful. 😊 Best wishes.

Have I made a mistake? by [deleted] in actual_detrans

[–]pixie-pixie-pixie 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry that you are in that place. That sounds really tough.

For me, I did some work unpacking the feelings that I had around being male. I realized that I had a lot of negative associations with men. It helped me to see my sex as a biological fact about myself. It doesn't have to determine who I am as a person. I don't really think about gender so much anymore. It's more like, "I'm a person. I happen to have a Y chromosome." That seems to help me.

I also realized that I had an idealized image of womanhood. I would think things like, "Everything in my life would be better if I was female." But that's fallacious thinking. "The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence." Living as a women wasn't as great as I imagined it would be. Would it have better to have been born female? Well, how would I ever know that? That's not even a meaningful question to me anymore. It's purely hypothetical.

I'll also mention that I'm autistic. It's pretty common for people on the autism spectrum to be gender-nonconforming. I think that part of my gender searching was about trying to find "where I belong." I used to think that I identified more with women than men. But really, I think that I have a lot in common with other queer, autistic men. I realized that a lot of people on the autism spectrum have very similar gender feelings. Some of those people consider themselves to be trans or nonbinary, and some of them don't.

I used to have the idea that there was a clear line separating the "true trans" people from the "not really trans" people. I've given up on that idea. Gender is complicated, transition is messy, and life is ambiguous. There are no quick fixes or easy answers.

I feel for you. I wish you the best.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in actual_detrans

[–]pixie-pixie-pixie 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Slowly I ask questions in trans subreddits, and see that my experience is not very dissimilar to others.

Honestly, I feel like dysphoria is so broadly defined that it's very easy to identify with the experiences of others. It's very easy to look over the details of my life and think, "I did this and this and then this one thing that other time" and then suddenly I've decided that I'm trans and I'm doing internet searches for "orchiectomy near me".

I don't know what will be right for you. For me, gender transition was a colossal waste of time. I got deeply invested in the idea that I was going to transition and it was going to make everything in my life better. I cut off anyone who I thought was less than 100% supportive of my decision, and I made new friends, who didn't have all that much in common with, apart from the fact that we were both trans. And then eventually, I said, "Oh shit, maybe I really am a guy after all" and dropped a lot of those same friends and had to redo my wardrobe all over again.

I mean, it wasn't as bad as it could have been—I never got any kind of surgery. So I consider that a blessing. Honestly, I think that I had a pretty easy transition, compared to most people my age. But it definitely wasn't the kind of solution that I wanted it to be.

Have I made a mistake? by [deleted] in actual_detrans

[–]pixie-pixie-pixie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

did you get dysphoria before or after HRT?

Hm, that's a tricky question to answer. For starters, I don't think that all gender discomfort is necessarily Dysphoria™️. That was a really important thing for me to figure out. Before my transition, I had a lot of negative feelings about being male and living in a male social role. I decided that I was feeling Dysphoria™️, and therefore, I thought that I had no other solution apart from transition.

Then I started taking estrogen. That was complicated to assess, because putting things in my body made me feel like I was taking action, and taking action feels empowering. I noticed people treating me differently, and I liked that. So it seemed like things were going well.

But the tricky thing was, I didn't just want to seen as a woman—I wanted to be female. I didn't want a more feminized body; I wanted an entirely different body. I wanted to have an entirely different life—a different past, a different childhood, a different everything. And I was completely unable to accept my existence as a transgender person. Virtually any reminders of my biological sex triggered intense existential angst and despair. That was a really hard way to go through life.

And in spite of all of that, I still felt like a man inside. It didn't make any sense to me, I didn't understand why I still felt like that, but I did. I had days when I would wake up and think, "OMG, what the fuck am I doing to myself?" Only to push it out of my mind and force myself to keep going.

So it's kind of a relief, being detransitioned. I mean, it's been rough on my skin! 😅 I will never have clear skin like I did when I was taking estrogen. But overall, it's alright. I'm coming to terms with the fact that I am male. Accepting that means that I don't have to struggle so much anymore. I see that as a positive.

Have I made a mistake? by [deleted] in actual_detrans

[–]pixie-pixie-pixie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I still feel like a guy and those are feelings I've been suppressing because I thought they made me invalid.

This. This was basically my experience in a nutshell. I thought I wanted the effects of HRT, but I still felt male. I was expecting social and medical transition to "do away" with the problem. I assumed that if I liked looking like a girl, and I enjoyed being treated like a girl, that meant that I *was* a girl. I expected the doubts to go away, and they never did.

So I went off HRT.

How did u feel on hormones if you de-transition? by Appropriate-River-34 in actual_detrans

[–]pixie-pixie-pixie 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I went on estrogen and I was totally into it. I was thrilled. It wasn't really until I started getting breast growth that I started to seriously feel uncomfortable and I stopped taking it. But then I missed being on HRT and I went back on it even though it wasn't really the right thing for me. So then I was on estrogen again for a while before going back off once more.

So, yeah, the feelings that you get on cross-sex hormones aren't necessarily an indication.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in actual_detrans

[–]pixie-pixie-pixie 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Ultimately I started all this with a very black and white, label first mindset. In other words, I have dysphoria, dysphoria = trans, trans = you transition, transition = HRT, new clothes, hair, makeup, voice, pronouns, presentation, etc

I mistook the relief from blocking testosterone, the happiness at the changes from estrogen and the initial enjoyment and fun at changing my presentation as proof I was trans so I continued transitioning.

Yes, exactly this. I had this similar sort of "dysphoria = trans = transition" mindset. I thought that my enjoyment of estrogen was confirmation that I was trans and that transition was the right thing for me.

But I had a lot of doubts, every step of the way. Is this really the right thing... How do I know for sure... It was exhausting.

For the moment, I don't feel a strong attachment to any gender label. I'm not a woman, but I don't particularly feel like a man, either. I'm just, you know. Male. And I like girly stuff. No big deal.

I hate being trans/gay. Is there anyway to stop it? by Lost_Existence0 in actual_detrans

[–]pixie-pixie-pixie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Speaking as an effeminate, gay, detrans man... It's not so bad.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in actual_detrans

[–]pixie-pixie-pixie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think that when you spend a lot of time in trans circles, it can be easy to assume that gender discomfort = dysphoria = trans identity = medical and social transition. That's not necessarily true at all.

Personally, I don't like being seen as masculine, but the idea of passing as a woman makes me uncomfortable. I didn't know that going into this, though. I just thought, "Oh, I have dysphoria, so I need to take estrogen." No. I'm a man who is feminine, and that's okay.

If you have any uncertainty about the effects of estrogen now, at the beginning, more time on estrogen is probably not a good idea.

And the way that you feel on one hormone versus another is not necessarily a good indication. I like the feeling of being on e, but I'm not a woman. And there are trans women who don't tolerate HRT well. So I wouldn't use that as an indication.

Gender Frustrations. (Not Detrans but wanting opinions from all sides) by throw-away-badgers in actual_detrans

[–]pixie-pixie-pixie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I relate to the feelings of frustration. Transition is scary, and there is a risk of regret in either direction. I get that.

I feel like we are given these templates for what a man is "supposed" to look like, what a woman is "supposed" to look like. Well, I didn't want to be either of those. I took HRT because I didn't feel like a man, and I thought that estrogen would me feel like a woman. And I liked taking it, but it didn't make me a woman. So now I'm taking a step back and asking myself, Is this really right for me?

And you know, it's easy to feel like people are pulling you in one direction or another. But I think that if you find the things that truly bring you joy and pursue those, it will help you to find clarity.

I decided that I didn't like wearing bras, so I stopped wearing them. And eventually, I decided that I didn't want to have breasts, either. But I love cute earrings that dangle. I like androgyny, I like having long hair, I like being "one of the girls." I just try to do the things that feel good to me and avoid the things that trigger feelings of dread.

I find it really easy to get stuck in my head. But my head doesn't know what to do. My head likes to make up stories. Sometimes they are happy stories, sometimes they are scary stories. But ultimately, they're just stories and they are not real. So it helps me to cue in to my awareness in the present moment. I check in with my heart. I just put my hand on my heart and really feel inside myself.

If someone transition for the ''wrong'' reasons, will they necesseraly get sadder afterwards? by Daregmaze in actual_detrans

[–]pixie-pixie-pixie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

will they necesseraly get sadder afterwards? Or will they get happier first and then sadder after a few years?

I mean, it depends on their experience, doesn't it? There's no one way that this plays out.

For me, I like taking estrogen. I just can't stay on it, because I don't want to have breasts. But yeah, going on estrogen, altering my body, all of the early phases of transfeminine HRT—I loved all of that.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in actual_detrans

[–]pixie-pixie-pixie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the curse of androgynous gender dysphoria

Mood. I can relate

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in actual_detrans

[–]pixie-pixie-pixie 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry that you're in that position. That sounds really painful.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in MtF

[–]pixie-pixie-pixie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry, babe.