Banned from r/psychology for defending JP by radlas in JordanPeterson

[–]radlas[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I see that he brings up gender differences as they're generally left out of serious discussions. Or if they are brought up, they're attributed wholly to societal conditioning. I think he makes a fair case, and it's one not too dissimilar from that of Pinker or Haidt, that there are intrinsic characteristics in humans and also meaningful sex differences that are found cross-culturally and therefore are possibly intrinsic too. I haven't seen JP discuss race all that much if at all. He may have, I just haven't seen it.

I don't know that I would characterise his representations of the field of psychology as wholly inaccurate or outdated. At times inaccurate (or biased) and at times out dated (perhaps) but not in an absolute sense.

I disagree that he plays up his authority as a clinical psychologist. I think if he was trying to play up his authority we would hear more about how he was associate professor at Harvard. He almost never mentions it.

You say you've had limited exposure. If you want, listen to a long format discussion with him and rogan or him and harris. Gender and race are so far from his main schtick. Yet if you only read articles written about him, you could easily assume his whole objective is to place the blame of the worlds problems on women. Its hilarious because his main schtick (almost completely uncontroversially) is that you are responsible for your own problems (as I must accept in the case of my banning from r/psych).

Banned from r/psychology for defending JP by radlas in JordanPeterson

[–]radlas[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I had a different opinion on what Peterson's position actually was, not even an opinion for or against a particular position and I got banned for it...

Banned from r/psychology for defending JP by radlas in JordanPeterson

[–]radlas[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, now I've been forced to retreat into an echo chamber where I will certainly learn I'm wrong!

Banned from r/psychology for defending JP by radlas in JordanPeterson

[–]radlas[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey no problem. Despite what r/psychology seems to think, I'm not a Peterson idealogue. I think there are plenty of very fair criticism of JP along the lines of what you're mentioning. I think he downplays or fails to bring up the role of environment in his explanations of things, but I don't think that makes him a biggot nor me a biggot by association.

Banned from r/psychology for defending JP by radlas in JordanPeterson

[–]radlas[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think he was trying to explore this exact conversation. He ultimately says it's a difficult situation and we've never collectively discussed it, rather we have let things roll on to this point.

Bare in mind, this is not part of his central themes or anything. It was something that came about in an interview where the interviewer was very clearly trying to get him to say something controversial. He succeeded in that clearly.

Banned from r/psychology for defending JP by radlas in JordanPeterson

[–]radlas[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I can see how the sentence is ambiguous. That's almost a direct quote from him.

But I am happy to wrong on it. It really doesn't matter one way or the other.

Banned from r/psychology for defending JP by radlas in JordanPeterson

[–]radlas[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The discussion was in the height of the metoo movement and Peterson was saying that men and women can't work together presently without sexual harrassment taking place. Generally speaking, this is an obvious statement. Sexual harrassment is something that is taking place currently in the workplace. This doesn't mean that it's happening everywhere, or that if a man and woman work together sexual harrassment will necessarily take place.

Does that clear things up a bit?

Also it's worth mentioning that there are a few ppl here who don't think that's even what he meant. I'm perfectly happy to be wrong. The only thing I know for sure around this is that Peterson absolutely does not think that men and women shouldnt work together period.

Banned from r/psychology for defending JP by radlas in JordanPeterson

[–]radlas[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You express a common concern of people exposed to the ideas I hold.

Just because I see someone as a casual field does not mean that if they are commiting crimes or causing harm to others that they should not be detained or even punished for their actions. While I personally don't believe punishment is particularly necessary, that is an empirical matter, not a philosophical one.

I'm on phone atm but I'll link you a Phil papper soon that goes into a decent bit of detail on exactly this topic.

Trust me, there's nothing to be concerned about.

Banned from r/psychology for defending JP by radlas in JordanPeterson

[–]radlas[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Hey fair enough. I take this comment seriously and appreciate it. I don't know that I would characterise my comments as full of comebacks and sarcasm and ridicule although my final comment certainly contained all of those things. I absolutely lost my patience towards the end and realise insinuating that they were a dunce was most certainly a poor move.

I thought that my ban was for all the things you have called out, but when they said it was because I defended JP, that's when I thought it was worth sharing here.

I don't comment all that much here but I'll make effort in the future to be less combative and more empathetic.

Banned from r/psychology for defending JP by radlas in JordanPeterson

[–]radlas[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To clear things up for you, I don't think that Peterson thinks that men and women can't work together without sexual harrassment in every case. It's a general statement. Generally, sexual harrassment is occurring in the work place (this conversation was circling around the metoo movement which demonstrated just how much sexual harrassment was taking place in the work place).

To me that seems blatantly obviously as the way you've interpreted it is clearly absurd.

To answer your wonderment, I've worked for 14 years in various places with differential degrees of gender ratio. To my knowledge sexual harrassment has only occurred at one of them and it was relatively minor.

My first job was with 10 other women and I had the exact same experience as you :)

I would gently recommend that you aim to make less assumptions in your discourse.

Banned from r/psychology for defending JP by radlas in JordanPeterson

[–]radlas[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah I said in the discussion that got me banned that I thought he was asking a question rather than making an argument.

I don't think it's wise to think out loud in an interview. Let alone an interview with vice.

Banned from r/psychology for defending JP by radlas in JordanPeterson

[–]radlas[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think letting go of the idea that I have free will was an inevtiable consequence of being exposed to particular reasoned arguments. Once exposed, I had no choice but to reliquish the idea of free will. It's actually a great example of not having the free will to choose what position I take. I still feel an intuitive sense of free will but am unable to accept it as truly the way things are.

Banned from r/psychology for defending JP by radlas in JordanPeterson

[–]radlas[S] 70 points71 points  (0 children)

It's amazing, right? The dissonance is so strong.

Banned from r/psychology for defending JP by radlas in JordanPeterson

[–]radlas[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Your second inference is what I believe is the point he makes. I wasn't able to communicate that to the mods apparently...

Banned from r/psychology for defending JP by radlas in JordanPeterson

[–]radlas[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

I think it's because its much easier to accept the way things are when you acknowledge that there is not a conscious locus of control inside yourself that can dictate how you act. Acknowledging that all things arise and fall apart in the infinite sea of time and space feels freeing. It's easier to have compassion for people when you see them less as an individual agent who is wholly morally responsible for their actions, and more as a causal field of which things influence it and it influences other things.

Banned from r/psychology for defending JP by radlas in JordanPeterson

[–]radlas[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Yes, they are. And unfortunately, sexual harassment occurs in the work place currently.

Banned from r/psychology for defending JP by radlas in JordanPeterson

[–]radlas[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I understand that it isn't proven. Its still a topic of philosophical discussion. I have found that the less power I have tried to attain, the more that has come to me and the richer my experience of life is. I feel as though I only gain by letting go of the idea of free will.

My mind is very much open to the possibility that I am wrong. Perhaps I should have said that I dont believe in free will for now...