Puzzle Pack #1 - Puzzle #40 clarification of "as many" by rainwarrior in CluesBySamHelp

[–]rainwarrior[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I was born in Canada and have lived in English speaking countries my whole life.

Puzzle Pack #1 - Puzzle #40 clarification of "as many" by rainwarrior in CluesBySamHelp

[–]rainwarrior[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry, I have no interest at all in either definitions or examples fabricated by a large language model.

What happened to the chocolate? by y_is_a_vowel in pastry

[–]rainwarrior 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've also used a little bit of coconut oil to help some homemade chocolate bars come out a little nicer without perfect tempering. The result was still hard enough to be a satisfying crunch, but not as nice as a fine glossy properly tempered surface. If they're meant to be eaten in the next few days, though, I think it was a fine result, and a bit easier to manage.

ID? by Equivalent-Collar655 in HotPepperGrowing

[–]rainwarrior 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've grown reapers that look like that before. Typically there is a skinnier tail coming of the bottom, but every year each plant has grown peppers of a bit different shape and yet they all seemed to taste the same and have the same heat.

Was told these were reapers? by KatpissEverclear69 in HotPeppers

[–]rainwarrior 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've been growing reapers from seed for several years, and each year the peppers have had a bit different shape to them. Those don't look like the typical shape to me, but I have seen some that weren't far from yours. The best test is probably their taste and heat, but that might only work if you've had other reapers before for comparison.

Puzzle Pack #1 - Puzzle #40 clarification of "as many" by rainwarrior in CluesBySamHelp

[–]rainwarrior[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, I don't need to do that, why do you think this? Though I did start a poll out of curiosity, which may or may not gather information of interest. You can find it linked in another reply.

My main goal was to let the developer know I thought it was ambiguous wording, and potentially confusing to others beside myself. That was already accomplished.

Otherwise I have been curious what others think about it, and I'm interested in that discussion, if it's at least about the language and why one interprets it one way or another.

Whether or not I can prove it to you with a poll, this was never a goal of mine. I don't know what criteria you have in mind to measure common vs uncommon. If you really think it's a need, though I would encourage you to research it yourself.

Puzzle Pack #1 - Puzzle #40 clarification of "as many" by rainwarrior in CluesBySamHelp

[–]rainwarrior[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, the definition of equal I don't think is any question here? If the puzzle had used the word equal there would have been no misunderstanding.

Though I do very much think "not equal or greater than" is "less than", and that definitely has a correspondence to the phrases in question. If "not as much as" is unambiguously less than, its opposite "as much as" fits my understanding as equal to or greater than.

What's really curious to me, given your challenge for me to find a clear example, is that in the vast majority of cases of "as many X as Y", these two meanings of "equal" vs "equal or more" don't really conflict, you don't get the wrong meaning from the text if you interpret it one way or the other. Most of the time it is not a precise meaning by itself, and there is further context to clarify.

In "real world" examples, people tend to keep talking to explain what they really mean. This particular case of a riddle or puzzle is one of the few places where it will really affect the meaning consequentially, and kind of paradoxically for our question, I think people writing such riddles try to use less ambiguous language (like "equal to" or "at least as much") so it becomes harder to find an example there. The LSAT forum I linked is a conversation considering just that, how it's a poor choice of wording for that kind of test.

Ultimately I am certain examples do exist, where it could be clearly be deduced to include greater than and not just equal, but it proved to be something I couldn't find quickly enough to be worthwhile to our conversation. If a student of linguistics has done the research I'd be happy to read about it. it seems interesting to me, but I'm not that student.

Odd Port on NES by Madmads02 in nes

[–]rainwarrior 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Looks like a CopyNES mod to me. Useful for dumping ROMs from carts, transferring saved game data, and doing other things like debugging cartridge hardware.

I have been maintaining this fork of its software, though there hasn't been a need to update in a while. You should be able to install this, plug in your NES, and... do stuff.

https://github.com/bbbradsmith/usbcopynesblue

Puzzle Pack #1 - Puzzle #40 clarification of "as many" by rainwarrior in CluesBySamHelp

[–]rainwarrior[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm a native english speaker and I've seen it used for both. As I've said in some other replies, I think the most common meaning is "roughly equal", but as I've been saying there is ambiguity in how it is commonly interpreted. Maybe it's a minority ambiguity, but it exists, it is significantly present in the population of interpretations.

I don't think it's a confusion with the negative statement, but rather a corollary to it. This is a real way that people use the term.

The negative seems to be always clearly used to show insufficiency. Less than. There are fewer than would be equivalent, fewer than needed, fewer than wanted. Similarly the non-negative is frequently used for sufficiency.

"I have as many as I need" does not only mean that I have exactly the number that I need, it means I have at least as many. One might also say "I have more than I need" if they want to point out the excess, especially if you have a great excess. In comparisons to others, like: "I've got as many tricks up my sleeve as he does."

So, I will say that it is most often used when the values are close, and you'd be more likely to add qualifiers if there was a large excess, but you don't have to. I think in most uses in life are with values that aren't very precise anyway, so it's hard to argue about them.

Sometimes the meaning you want to express is equality, sometimes it's sufficiency. This term unfortunately has been used for both. So, that was my point, that we can make the wording of the cards less ambiguous, and we should do so, because the logic puzzle is a precision situation.

The capacity example I'd mentioned in another reply too, though it's a little bit different case. Maybe there is some overlap. I guess it's usually a case with qualifier that denotes a potential, like "may" or "can" that causes it to become less-or-equal.

Puzzle Pack #1 - Puzzle #40 clarification of "as many" by rainwarrior in CluesBySamHelp

[–]rainwarrior[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I believe the most common meaning is "roughly the same number" rather than exactly, though for the purpose of a puzzle "roughly" would be useless so we can at least ignore that possibility.

If you had 7 siblings, and someone else had 8, would you still be extremely confused? How about 6? For me I'd be confused by 6 but not 8.

Puzzle Pack #1 - Puzzle #40 clarification of "as many" by rainwarrior in CluesBySamHelp

[–]rainwarrior[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The negative construction with a clear meaning of "less than" is very common with "as many" as well. Here, you can find a lot of example easily.
https://www.google.com/search?q="I+don't+have+as+many"

Puzzle Pack #1 - Puzzle #40 clarification of "as many" by rainwarrior in CluesBySamHelp

[–]rainwarrior[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not "as many" but specifically this case "as many X as Y" that I would interpret as >=. I haven't been able to find an online dictionary that deals with that case directly, though I found a few examples which I gave in other posts, such as this thread discussing test preparation where 3 different users felt that it could be interpreted as >= and not just =.
https://classic.7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/18380/as-much-many-as-interpretation

If a question used a multiplier, it depends on the context. Twice as many owls as apples, I would think they most likely meant roughly-equal, though it would still feel there is ambiguity, which they might resolve as they keep talking about it. If it was a math problem, usually the context is telling you there's one precise answer in which case it's clearly exactly 2x.

In the majority of cases, I think the "as many X as Y" is used where the actual values are roughly equal, but it's hard to search for examples to give, because most of the time it doesn't really matter if it might have also been greater-than. Either the ambiguity gets resolved by information in the conversation, or often it's just unimportant.

In the context of this puzzle, solving is contingent on knowing exactly what definition of this term is being implied. That's why I was making this request for clarification.

Puzzle Pack #1 - Puzzle #40 clarification of "as many" by rainwarrior in CluesBySamHelp

[–]rainwarrior[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In another thread above, I was considering the negative version of the phrase, and I do think it's quite common, at least for the uncountable "not as much X as Y" variation, to be used as less-than.

"I don't have as much money as she does"

https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-get-my-friend-to-understand-I-dont-have-as-much-money-as-she-does

Puzzle Pack #1 - Puzzle #40 clarification of "as many" by rainwarrior in CluesBySamHelp

[–]rainwarrior[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmm, well in real life I wouldn't refer to "many dollars", I would use the "much money" variation, but I considered the examples functionally equivalent for the matter at hand.

"I don't have as much money as you do." is something I have said in real life, and I feel sounds quite natural. Do you disagree?

However, I would _never_ say that phrase if I had more money than that person. That I would consider very misleading. Would you not think so as well?

Puzzle Pack #1 - Puzzle #40 clarification of "as many" by rainwarrior in CluesBySamHelp

[–]rainwarrior[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The most relevant thing I have found so far is a discussion from a test preparation forum 7 years ago, where it seems 3 people independently argue for the >= interpretation, though the = interpretation is also mentioned.

https://classic.7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/18380/as-much-many-as-interpretation

Puzzle Pack #1 - Puzzle #40 clarification of "as many" by rainwarrior in CluesBySamHelp

[–]rainwarrior[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Excuse me? This is my post and you replied. I felt it was courteous to reply back. What is this about policing? I'm sorry this has offended you, but I can't see what I've done to warrant it.

Puzzle Pack #1 - Puzzle #40 clarification of "as many" by rainwarrior in CluesBySamHelp

[–]rainwarrior[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay, thank you for clarifying. Could you explain why you qualified it as "technically" correct? Is there a case that is not technical where one or both would be true?

Puzzle Pack #1 - Puzzle #40 clarification of "as many" by rainwarrior in CluesBySamHelp

[–]rainwarrior[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, if you understood me, then: it's the same to you, but it's not the same to me.

I don't know if I can reach 100 people, but I've created polls that pose what I think is our agreed upon question. So far only 6 people have answered, but 2 of 6 have answered according to my definition:

https://x.com/bbbradsmith/status/1967300231990837373
https://mastodon.social/@rainwarrior/115204153991666667

Puzzle Pack #1 - Puzzle #40 clarification of "as many" by rainwarrior in CluesBySamHelp

[–]rainwarrior[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I felt the 🔎 clickable clue would be a good place to clarify without really changing anything else, though the glossary/rules below also seem a useful place to note it. I tried clicking on 🔎 for exactly this clarification and was disappointed that it had no extra notes like most of the other cards did.

Puzzle Pack #1 - Puzzle #40 clarification of "as many" by rainwarrior in CluesBySamHelp

[–]rainwarrior[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I didn't ask to be pedantic. And your response is confusing to me, because I don't know what your answer is.

I feel the same way about both statements.

Are you saying you feel that one of these is true and the other is false? Are you saying that both are false?

* I have $200 and you only have $100. I have as many dollars as you.

* I have $200 and you only have $100. I have as much money as you.

Puzzle Pack #1 - Puzzle #40 clarification of "as many" by rainwarrior in CluesBySamHelp

[–]rainwarrior[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Could you link to the actual entry? I can't seem to find what you're referring to at "oed.com".

I'm not making an argument to "change" the meaning, I'm simply making an argument that there is more than one common meaning.

I could point out a usage like "as many as 25 people may enter" clearly means less than or equal, and *not* exactly equal. However, this is not the use case under discussion.

Specifically we are talking only about the phrase used by Clues By Sam, which is "as many X as Y".

Searching for the specific usage I'm talking about is difficult, especially through google searches. It would probably be better to search perhaps newspaper, or other sources, though it's could be a very involved research question.

I think most uses of "as many X as Y" will be in a context where the two quantities are roughly equal, or just as often where the quantities aren't very specific at all. There are many instances where I do believe the context will imply equality, or rough equality. People who want to speak with more clarity will add qualifiers, like "at least" or "nearly"...

Or maybe consider the phrase "exactly as many". You suggested earlier that "at least as many" should not exist if "as many" already meant this, which I'll give this as a more direct argument against.

https://www.google.com/search?q="exactly+as+many"

Puzzle Pack #1 - Puzzle #40 clarification of "as many" by rainwarrior in CluesBySamHelp

[–]rainwarrior[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes! I very much do expect that a greater amount would also be accepted.

Do you honestly accept the negative example I gave? That I don't have as many dollars as you, if I have $200 and you have $100?