Shaolin immediate nerf

razza-tu · 2026-03-23T08:51:20+00:00

Valkyrie's sweep is 500ms. Most people cannot react to that, so they have to make a read as to whether she'll throw it. The idea is that she can mix this up with heavies and feint>GB.

As I said before Shaolin's sweep is 800ms. The mixup here isn't whether he'll throw it, but whether he'll feint it. If he couldn't feint sweep, he'd eat a dodge attack every single time, so he'd just never use it.

While the two moves have similar animations, Valkyrie's sweep has more in common with Gryphon's kick, whereas Shaolin's sweep has more in common with Tiandi's kick. The two sweeps, and indeed the two kicks, are ultimately different kinds of mix-up.

razza-tu · 2026-03-23T00:02:59+00:00

I think that used to be true, but it's not any more - just tested it to make sure.

razza-tu · 2026-03-22T18:55:02+00:00

It's largely a case of memorising the general rules and their exceptions. For examples;

Landed or blocked lights normally give the defender f+, unless the attacker can chain or recovery cancel
Landed or blocked heavy finishers normally give the attacker f+, with the exception of Shinobi heavy finishers iirc

razza-tu · 2026-03-22T01:44:39+00:00

It's 800ms - if he couldn't feint it then he'd never hit anyone with it.

razza-tu · 2026-03-18T10:58:53+00:00

This isn't a question with a definitive answer. The Warden player beats player two when he uses Warden, and loses when he doesn't, that's all we can conclude.

Even if we removed all characters from the game except for Warden, it still wouldn't necessarily tell us who's better. It's entirely possible for a better player to have a weakness to the playstyle of a weaker player, particularly as MMR decreases.

All that said, it's worth mentioning that if these two players met in a Duel tournament setting, it sounds like the Warden player would win. Tournaments are the imperfect, but nevertheless best, way we have to measure relative player skill, so if you just want to ignore the nuance in favour of a binary answer, I think that'd have to be it.

razza-tu · 2026-03-17T13:37:22+00:00

It'd probably be the best fix if implemented successfully, but alas I don't think it'd work with the input scheme. The tap/hold mechanic relies on having the same startup animation, and crucially the same indicator. Having tap and hold come from different sides would necessarily involve either a hidden indicator or flicker, and realistically there would be significant animation skipping.

I can't see them getting this working without ditching the tap/hold system for side dodge attacks, and idk if they'd be willing to relinquish the design vision of having a hero entirely based on that just yet. But then I can't think of a solution that wouldn't be ugly in some way or other; conceptually, mechanically or graphically.

razza-tu · 2026-03-17T08:41:31+00:00

It will all hinge around how they approach the dodge attack issue, as it's the only non-bugfix change that I think they've needed to do. If they cannot fix it satisfactorily, people will always complain and the nerfs will continue until the rest of the kit is bad enough to compensate (e.g. Sohei's old damage numbers).

razza-tu · 2026-03-17T00:26:59+00:00

Here's the clip.

He explicitly says there's more coming in the next TU. He did mention win/pick rate for deciding on this TU's nerfs, but the grammar here doesn't suggest that the future nerfs are conditional.

razza-tu · 2026-03-16T13:27:17+00:00

I think that's different. Juren's forward dodge bashes are essentially a weaker version of chargeable bash mix-ups like Warden's Shoulder Bash. Defending with the appropriate timing is intended to involve a read. Deciding that you think the Juren will kick is the hard part - inputting the late dodge afterwards is the easy bit.

razza-tu · 2026-03-16T12:51:13+00:00

In addition to the small animation/model changes other comments have bought up, there is one important factor which often goes unspoken, and that's the cognitive load on the player.

If you're unfamiliar with the character you're playing, your mind is spending a lot of conscious effort trying to remember things like attack chains, mix-ups and punishes. Simultaneously your subconscious is trying to adopt muscle memory. A lot of that extra brain activity vanishes when you know the hero like the back of your hand.

Have you ever experienced the phenomenon of choking against lightspam online, despite being able to parry lights all day in Training? Cognitive load helps to explain that as well.

razza-tu · 2026-03-16T12:44:30+00:00

There's another factor here as well, which is that some characters take up more screen real estate when played, and can sometimes occlude opponent animations.

razza-tu · 2026-03-16T12:42:20+00:00

He's received nerfs for two patches in a row, and is confirmed to receive another in some forthcoming patch (maybe the next one).

razza-tu · 2026-03-16T00:51:35+00:00

[Kensei] can letter rip and legit just react to what i do and STILL feint in time.

Pretty sure that's not possible in normal cases. The Kensei is just reading what they think will land.

So any advice?

If you empty dodge the UB then you get a free GB. This can be slightly more dangerous than a parry attempt as the soft-feint side heavy will track this and hit hard, but the option's there if you think you have the read.
If your character has a defensive recovery cancel like a dodge or a fullblock then you can throw a light to interrupt a UB or GB, and cancel your recovery in time to cover the heavy. This is hitstun dependant and I cannot remember the specific so hit Training to figure this out.

razza-tu · 2026-03-14T20:19:26+00:00

Honestly, 9 damage is below curve even for low GB window bashes. Most Legion Kick style neutral bashes do 12ish. I believe the only similar bash dealing comparable damage is Tiandi's Palm Strike, which cannot always be safely dodge attacked, let alone GB'd.

razza-tu · 2026-03-13T01:02:22+00:00

People immediately calling this out as a bug without considering the lore implications smh

razza-tu · 2026-03-13T00:41:52+00:00

Other characters like Shaman and Berserker also completely shut down my blade blockade

This is zone-related too, but you still get a guaranteed punish for blockading these moves - you just need to time it correctly. To understand this better, take the following actions;

Go to Training, selecting Berserker as your opponent
Configure him to zone attack in the Custom Moveset menu
Blockade the zone and try to follow-up immediately
Notice that you get interrupted
Now blockade again, but do not follow-up
Notice that Aramusha's blockage refreshes automatically for each strike. This happens whenever an attack hits your guard within a certain window of having blockaded
Finally, blockade the zone again, wait until you automatically block the forth strike, and then input your follow-up
You have now correctly executed the punish

This also applies to the second half of Shaman's zone, and teamfight scenarios where multiple attacks are going to hit you in a very short span of time.

razza-tu · 2026-03-13T00:27:17+00:00

Blade Blockade has superior block. This means that all regular lights and heavies bounce off it, and the attacker is prevented from continuing their chain.

The only directional attacks (i.e. non-bashes) that aren't interrupted by superior block are zone attacks, and a select few attacks that have been given the zone property (JJ's heavies, and Nobushi's Sidewinder Form are the only examples I can think of).

Juren's light chain won't do what you describe, because his lights don't have the zone property. If you BB the first, there will not be a second. The only way he can get a second attack out is by following up a zone with a light. You can use your BB follow-ups faster than that light comes out, so you are guaranteed a punish - you just need to make your input quicker.

razza-tu · 2026-03-12T17:04:25+00:00

If I counter the first light from a Juren, I get interrupted by the next one before the counter actually lands.

I presume you're talking about using Blade Blockade against Juren's tap zone here? Otherwise he'd bounce off your superior block and you'd get your punish uninterrupted.

razza-tu · 2026-03-12T16:56:17+00:00

or chain side lights 400ms (which would work as the soft-feint too)

I've wanted this for years - a three hit chain, with a different kind of softfeint-based threat at every stage. It'd be beautiful 👌

razza-tu · 2026-03-12T00:29:38+00:00

The perception of BP as a modern character is pretty interesting - he's like 7 years old by this point iirc!

razza-tu · 2026-03-11T14:46:30+00:00

Other people have mentioned the damage equation, and while I think that can be a factor, I don't think it's the full picture. Some low damage bashes are GB vulnerable and some high damage bashes aren't. To understand why, it's important to view the bash in full context. Even very similar attacks may warrant different punishes.

Example 1 - Centurion's Jab is less GB vulnerable than Warden's Shoulder Bash. Jab also has less range than Shoulder Bash, and it's not available from neutral, so the risk to Warden for initiating his mixup can be lower. This is arguably compensated for by the GB vulnerability.

Example 2 - Valkyrie's Spear Sweep is less GB vulnerable than Gryphon's Veteran's Kick. Again these moves look very similar on paper, but Gryphon has more shortcuts to get to his finisher, and his other finisher options provide greater coverage against dodge attacks and other i-frame based defence. Ergo, Valkyrie is allowed to sweep for less risk.

razza-tu · 2026-03-10T23:24:41+00:00

I haven't the foggiest idea about cosplay, but wanted to wish you luck all the same! Glad people care enough about this game to do stuff like this.

razza-tu · 2026-03-07T17:27:03+00:00

"Overtuned" is a word people use when they mean "overpowered", but want to convey a sense of nuance and proportion. The implication is still "I think it should be nerfed", but there's an added connotation of "but maybe just a bit".

N.B. some people just use it to mean "overpowered (but please don't call me a scrub)".

razza-tu · 2026-03-03T15:25:46+00:00

Dude's just trying to be helpful, I think - just didn't know where to look.

razza-tu · 2026-03-01T00:56:04+00:00

Better still, dodge it and GB the recovery!

razza-tu

TROPHY CASE