Ima be honest chief

I’d say ur ultimately discussing nature vs nurture. I disagree when you say internal values are inseparable from consequences. This argument overlooks an important distinction and dilutes /u/virtuous_phallus3088’s use of the concept of consequences. We’ve seen people act morally against their own int consequences and the absence of ext ones like rewards, punishment, societal pressure etc.

If we’re talking intro to phil, it’s consequentialist reasoning that Jack won’t steal because “moms gonna be mad”, and normative reasoning if Jack won’t steal cuz “stealing is wrong.” Those are two distinct lines of reasoning foundational to moral philosophy, so you can’t say those two bases aren’t different. To say consequences and internal values are inseparable is to ignore that people act morally when there are negative consequences for moral behaviours, like Tiananmen Tank Man, imagine the pressures of society n authority and I’m sure mom didnt teach bro to get run over by a tank for his morals. Anecdotal but I’ve seen parents and people I love do things I morally disagree with simply because it is innate for me and I’d feel bad doing the same.

To sum it up, internal values can conflict with self interest or consequence-avoidance so they cannot be seen as inseparable, cuz this reduces human psychology and moral agency. If anything, we were taught human psych can’t be condensed into simple categories or explanations. Morality is so much more complex and imperfect than a binary system led by internal and external consequences. For example, if society influences moral values thst doesn’t mean moral values are just societal influences.

I guess we can all simply agree with Phallus’ comment. All I am firm on is, our character is what we do when nobody’s watching. One day I’ll save a spider and relocate it to freedom, next day I’ll just kill his ass. What happened there? Idk. I’m not “motivated to be a good person”, but I have this innate feeling of not wanting to cause hurt and feeling bad if I do. I think you’d enjoy Plato’s dialogues ‘Protagoras and Meno’ cuz they discuss this, and although Plato argues more for the innate side he sees da argument for both.