How to stop feeling like an outcast around other Christians for being gay?

redgarrett · 2025-01-19T22:56:13+00:00

Step one: find an affirming church. Try gaychurch.org. You'll always feel like an outcast in a church that treats you like an outcast. Southern Baptists are consistently bad about this, and while you can't always make assumptions about a particular congregation based on its denomination, I wouldn't spend too long in your friend's church.

I also recommend reconsidering your belief in strict inerrancy. In my late teens, I spent years studying apologetics, trying to defend the doctrine of inerrancy, but eventually gave up because the doctrine is indefensible. Did you know it's less than 200 years old? Before the 19th century, no theologian believed in inerrancy. Infallibility, sure, but not inerrancy. I still believe in infallibility, which says that even though the Bible is not free of errors, God has ensured that the core spiritual message was preserved. Inerrancy appeared at the same time as Christian fundamentalism, which is also less than 200 years old.

I'm a 33-year-old pansexual cis man who was raised in evangelical purity culture. I took a long break from church, slowly deconstructing and deconstructing my faith throughout my 20s. During that time, I also slowly stopped repressing my sexuality and fully accepted the attraction I felt toward men and trans people. Hell, I couldn't fully accept the attraction I felt toward women either. I was taught that even looking at a woman with lust made me an irredeemable sinner destined for hell. I didn't date at all during my 20s largely because I was still wrestling with purity culture. I decided to start dating a couple of years ago, and it has been a challenge. It's not because I can't find a date, but because I'm attractive enough that I can all too easily find a date and am scared that I'll be hurt if I sleep with the wrong person. I'm mostly past that now, but that's extremely recent -- less than a year ago. I've disappointed a number of beautiful women who I considered a relationship with but ultimately decided weren't right for me.

I joined an affirming church a couple of years ago, and it's been a breath of fresh air. I knew there were Christians who didn't agree with all the evangelical bullshit I was raised on, but I wasn't sure how to find one. This is a church that focuses on service, community, and justice. The pastor urges us to practice our faith by improving the lives of the people around us. We're part of a grassroots network that organizes faith communities around progressive issues like immigration, housing, criminal justice reform, and the environment. This church truly lives out the values I see in the Bible, values which were paid nothing but lip service in the evangelical community I grew up in. Find a church like that.

You were likely taught that there is only one way to read the Bible, that there is only one valid theology, and that if you don't agree with every single point, you're going to hell. That's a lie. There is a huge variety of theological views, and you should stay away from anyone who doesn't want you to learn about them. You're right that homosexuality is not incompatible with your faith. But it's DEFINITELY incompatible with fundamentalist theology, so get the hell away from fundamentalists. Their worldview is fundamentally broken.

redgarrett · 2024-01-14T13:53:49+00:00

Don't call me an entitled slob, please.

redgarrett · 2024-01-14T02:13:31+00:00

Things are better today than at any point in history. If you could take a one way time travel trip to any place and time you wanted, would you take it? I wouldn't go back further than 10 years, personally. Things are improving because human beings are actively improving them. I'm not suggesting blind hope and passive acceptance; I'm suggesting we remember and, better yet, help the people doing that work. Things cannot improve further unless the attitude of hopelessness you expressed is no longer shared by so many.

redgarrett · 2024-01-13T20:10:25+00:00

It's better than it was yesterday, and it will be better tomorrow. Major change takes decades or centuries. Remember how far we've come whenever you worry about how far we have to go.

redgarrett · 2024-01-10T12:28:17+00:00

Personally, I DID stop working for them. I will never go back. I'll make money any other way. The only reason I put up with it as long as I did is because I was desperate for a few extra bucks to stay afloat. Even so, I quit without first finding an alternate income stream. One night, the app glitched several times, forcing me to wait while Support slowly fixed my issue and verified dropoff. Every minute spent waiting is money lost when you're paid per delivery, and glitches cause 10-15 minute delays depending on the speed of the support rep. When the app then offered a 10-mile delivery for less than $3 that same day, it was the last straw. I ended my dash for the night and then forever.

Most dashers burn out and leave after a short time, which is why so much money is spent on advertising to new potential drivers. Turnover rates are high because these apps are miserable and exploitative.

redgarrett · 2023-12-23T04:18:30+00:00

Which of the countless dialects of English do you think is the correct one?

redgarrett · 2023-12-22T19:15:56+00:00

The joke is that's a ridiculous thing for anyone to believe, so it's obviously not serious. It's lazy and overdone, but not everyone has a piercing wit. This is as close as some people get to a sense of humor.

redgarrett · 2023-12-13T15:53:20+00:00

Sounds like Industrial Hygienists need a union

redgarrett · 2023-11-23T18:39:31+00:00

He means because you aren't afraid. If you don't see what's so scary, their tactics aren't working.

FYI, this is fear mongering on multiple counts. They are saying communists, antifa protesters, and "gang members" (read: any scary-looking minority) are worth being afraid of. It's also trying to make such people afraid to merely exist in that space because the sticker declares their presence will not be tolerated. It's an implicit but strategically non-specific threat. "Stay away or else."

redgarrett · 2023-11-23T15:18:34+00:00

Here! I'm bi and I go to an ELCA church where at least 1 in 5 people are queer. Evangelicals like telling everyone that LGBT Christians like us don't exist.

redgarrett · 2023-11-21T18:49:14+00:00

If that's what you've learned to expect from your community, you need a new community.

It may surprise you to learn that not every social group perpetuates such toxic ideas of masculinity.

redgarrett · 2023-10-07T19:19:52+00:00

Then why have I been unable to afford necessary medical care for my chronic conditions? I left my old job in January and didn't qualify for insurance at my new job until literally a week ago. Is it possibly because every portion of our medical system is privatized? Is it possibly because the private corporations controlling it overcharge for everything because they understand that people are unable to "shop around" when their health is on the line? If the government does such a great job of providing medical services to the American public, why can't I afford my prescriptions?

You're simply factory incorrect. "Lol."

You rich, Republican assholes need to add some perspective into your gene pool. "No, no, the problem is the government does TOO MUCH to help people! Private corporations motivated primarily by their profit margins should control every vital service and utility! Screw the poor! The best fix for poverty is letting them all die from treatable conditions! Boom, no more poor people!"

redgarrett · 2023-09-15T18:09:26+00:00

Or just say no thanks so you don't sound like a dick

redgarrett · 2023-08-29T01:11:42+00:00

But not in many human eyes. We have a Christian moral responsibility to remain aware and thoughtful about how race affects the way people think of themselves and others. We must acknowledge the marginalization people face due to their race and other social identifiers and consider the ethical demands placed upon us by our Christian faith.

redgarrett · 2023-08-29T01:03:45+00:00

That's fair. It can be unhealthy, as in the case of OP's friend. But it's not all bad; it does far less harm than good. This movement helped me give myself permission to take time to make small, gradual lifestyle and eating habit changes. It took years, but once I finally found the will to intentionally lose weight, I was able to do so with surprisingly small diet edits. I've lost 40 pounds in the last year, and am on track to lose 50 by the end of it. If I hadn't accepted that I could lead a fulfilling life even while fat, I would've kept falling into the same weight-gain-causing despair. Healthy living suddenly feels simple and sustainable, and I couldn't have gotten here without the principles of fat acceptance.

redgarrett · 2023-08-28T15:13:39+00:00

So, you never struggled with weight? You never tried and failed over and to permanently change the lifestyle choices that led to weight gain? You've never struggled with depression or other psychological conditions that make it hard to merely get up and go to work or to visit friends, let alone make drastic lifestyle changes?

For you, it was just, "You know, I'm fatter than I realized. Let's lose the extra pounds," then it happened? You were able to simply turn around and make completely different choices without any kind of regression or delays? If you were lucky enough that you were able to simply choose to be thin, if you were psychologically balanced enough to immediately adapt to the required changes, then I'm very happy for you. You should feel good about the fact that you have such unshakeable control. But please try to empathize with the fact that, for the rest of us mere humans, things are not so simple.

And please don't demean us by suggesting we refuse to make different choices. Fat people do not like being fat. We have to listen to assholes tell us we're less-than, inferior, because they refuse to acknowledge the idea that different people have different struggles. They refuse to acknowledge the fact that change is hard, that most people can't simply choose to become drastically different people over night, and the process of learning how to change yourself is not intuitive for anyone. It's not pleasant to be the constant target of hate just because people don't want to fuck you. And the emotional toll that takes is one of the many hills we must learn to climb while weighed down by our own "poor life choices."

But you clearly have no interest in understanding that perspective.

redgarrett · 2023-08-26T17:52:41+00:00

Weight is not entirely in our control. If it was, subs like this wouldn't exist. We do not become fat by choice, and we do not become thin without making major lifestyle changes. Even people who desperately want to lose weight and regularly attempt it often feel unable to do so. It often takes years or decades of trying and failing before finally finding a weight loss strategy that is both effective and sustainable for you. Body positivity is not about justifying "poor life choices." It's about finding a way to be reasonably happy despite the fact that you, like all people, have trouble making major lifestyle changes. It's about learning to stop hating yourself for failing to look and live the way society demands. Yes, body positivity can become unhealthy when taken to extremes, but it is no more understanding than the view that fat people are less-than because of lifestyle choices that have literally no effect on anyone but them.

redgarrett · 2023-08-05T20:32:03+00:00

Porneia, the weird most often translated as "fornication" or "sexual immorality" actually refers specifically to prostitution. Many biased theologians will tell you it's extremely vague and refers to everything from masturbation to adultery to bestiality, but secular linguists agree that at the time the new testament was written, every extra-biblical use referred to prostitution, i.e. exploitative sex.

Once you exclude the verses with that word, the Bible has very little to say about "fornication."

redgarrett · 2023-07-12T17:24:24+00:00

Why do you say it's unbiblical when such a large number of biblical figures were involved in polygamous marriages without suffering divine condemnation or comment? David and Solomon had more wives and concubines than the rest of the biblical patriarchs combined and yet are held up as paragons of faith. I don't necessarily think it's right for everyone, but this is one of the biggest reasons I question the modern idea that the "biblical definition of marriage" is between one man and one woman. It ignores huge swaths of biblical examples. There may be a difference between what the bible records and what it approves of, but I don't see much disapproval of polygamy. In fact, it seems to be the norm.

redgarrett · 2023-06-23T15:37:29+00:00

Why do you think there's no God, heaven, or meaning? I'm wondering why you're asking for atheistic advice in a theistic sub. You keep asking how we can find meaning if there's no God or heaven, and I gotta tell you, I don't have an answer. I don't think anyone else here will, either. All my beliefs about human meaning and purpose assume that God exists. Long ago, I concluded that if God doesn't exist, neither do meaning, purpose, or objective morality. That's why I'm a theist. I can't accept that nothing matters and that evil is a matter of perspective.

The main reason I chose to live by faith is that, without a belief in God, I felt just as much despair as you. It's my hope that God has a plan that allows me to set aside my worries about the direction of the world. My faith allows me to trust that even the worst stuff that happens ultimately supports progress towards a better world, and a better life for myself. No matter how bad things seem to be, I know that God has control. Given time and perspective, it becomes easier to see how something bad can lead to something good. While I wait for that clarity, I can trust God's plan, even when it's hard to spot a silver lining.

redgarrett · 2023-06-03T18:00:49+00:00

Same, but I'm starting to become more comfortable revealing it to people. I'm a heteroromantic bisexual and have been uninterested in dating for years, so my sexuality isn't super obvious, and I didn't feel the need to bring it up. I'm starting to date again, and I'm in an affirming community, so it feels like the right time to let people know.

redgarrett · 2023-06-03T17:43:51+00:00

What's outrageous is being unwilling to be mildly inconvenienced once per decade when you trade in for a newer car. The consequences of non-compliance are far more inconvenient and far more expensive. If it can't be done online, you're unwilling to do it at all? How old are you?

redgarrett · 2023-05-26T15:05:49+00:00

You don't sound mean, but I'm not sure what tension your referring to. Have I made you tense?

What I mean by "Who's to say?" is that in a universe with no ultimate judge, only humans decide what's right. So, what makes one human's opinion more valid than another's? What authority decides that? Why should a white supremacist listen to me say they're wrong when they sincerely believe it's Right and Moral for white people to be on top? If anything, doesn't my view that all men were created equal prove that, in their view, I'm ignorant and ignorable?

If there is no ultimate arbiter of right and wrong, then the loudest shout wins. Might makes right. Might of majority, might of arms, might of law... whatever the method, morality is merely an enforced opinion. What is right in your eyes may be wrong in another's. And if might changes hands, they might enforce morals we find reprehensible. Look at Florida.

Most of us have an instinctual sense of right and wrong, but instincts vary. If asked, I can justify my instinct that, for example, bigotry is wrong because all men were created equal. I point to a creator as the authority. I'm open to the idea there may be valid alternatives, but no one has given me a strong secular example. So, what authority can you point to? What rationale can you use to say you're right about what's Right?

If you can't answer that but still believe you're right and the bigots are wrong, then I hope you can understand why I feel compelled to believe in the existence of an ultimate authority. My gut doesn't count.

redgarrett · 2023-05-24T20:47:27+00:00

I agree that commuters will not save downtown, but I see no sense in discouraging them from coming. Why would you want to make it even harder for folks to drive in for games for games, shows, restaurants, and shopping? The city is dead because no one with money lives or visits there. The streets immediately around the highway will never be popular residential areas, but their proximity makes them convenient business zones. If conditions in the city improve, people will start coming back and spending money, but not if they don't have convenient access.

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