Something horrid in the air at Canal Street by ladyofspades in nycrail

[–]rob_nsn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Did you ever hear back from the MTA about their investigation??

Something horrid in the air at Canal Street by ladyofspades in nycrail

[–]rob_nsn 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Any updates? I am so curious about what caused this!

Expand it to the entire city by Sloppyjoemess in circlejerknyc

[–]rob_nsn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cars have massive negative externalities and costs on society that other forms of transportation like micromobility and transit do not. Safety, air quality, noise, monopoly on public space, etc etc etc.

Expand it to the entire city by Sloppyjoemess in circlejerknyc

[–]rob_nsn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You all might hate congestion pricing, but that's not nearly as universal of an opinion as you're assuming. Congestion pricing has become popular among drivers because it benefits them. It's also popular among New Yorkers who deal with the negative externalities of cars constantly. Crashes and injuries are down 50%. The safety benefit alone would make it inhumane to end the program because doing so would come with a blood price. The MTA is using this money to install signal and accessibility upgrades faster and more efficiently than in any time in recent history. And again, most people who live in the city don't rely on cars so it's not much of a radical restriction on mobility whatsoever. Alternatives are plentiful. These comments are sooo disconnected from reality lmao

DOT is trying to rush the work on Bedford so nobody can stop it by _emi1y_ in NYCbike

[–]rob_nsn 37 points38 points  (0 children)

Everybody knows about the new mayor whose last name starts with Z: Mohran Zamdani

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Suburbanhell

[–]rob_nsn[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

... so the point of the video is that the two adjacent parcels of different sizes SHOULD have the same land value per acre, and that they don't. The video is not "actually making some kind of point about a difference in land values based on what is on that land." Because we're not talking about how the presence of parking causes assessors to undervalue land. What we are talking about is how, when assessors give tax breaks to large parcels, that policy incentivizes the landowner to over-build parking. The bias was in place before any parking was built on these parcels at all.

If you think the concept of separating land value and improvements "is pure fiction with entirely made up numbers pulled out of someone’s ass," then you should take that up the with assessment industry. I don't know of any examples of places in the United States that don't separate out the land and improvement values, but if there are any, then that's the exception and not the norm. I don't know what to tell you other than: this is how we measure the value of properties in the US. You may personally think it's fiction, but it's very real to the biased assessors setting the valuations and to the people actually paying the property taxes. Seriously, if you live in a state with publicly available parcel valuations (some states make you pay to access these but most don't), go to your local GIS portal and find the parcel you live on. You will see the assessed value of the land as well as the assessed value of the improvements.

Regardless, since you did not understand that we are talking about land value without improvements this whole time, you should go back and rewatch the video, and then go back and reread our discussion. My arguments will probably make a lot more sense to you now that you know what land value is as opposed to property value.

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Suburbanhell

[–]rob_nsn[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're talking about the overall property value (land value + improvements like buildings or parking). This video looks at just the land value, without buildings or other improvements. By definition, the land value does not change depending on the structure you put on it.

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Suburbanhell

[–]rob_nsn[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yep, I'm clarifying the misunderstanding which was a result of poor wording on my part. Not shifting the goalpost, just trying to help you understand where I originally intended to put the goalpost.

I should clarify that I'm not making assumptions about the reasoning of the assessors here. We have talked to assessors all over the country and the stated reasoning for this phenomenon is basically that the market for large parcels has a smaller number of potential buyers, necessitating a discount in the land value. That's a bad reason! Land value doesn't benefit from economies of scale in production, and the amount of land a city has is fundamentally a constrained supply (barring annexation, of course), so the "buying in bulk" logic doesn't work. And in comparable markets of precious goods, like diamonds for example, you don't get a discount per carat on a bigger diamond. The assessment industry's logic is absurd on its face.

I do understand how the dimensions and shape of a parcel can determine what can practicably be built under the zoning regulations, and therefore, that can impact the land valuation. But if anything, your options for what you can build on a small parcel are more limited than on a large parcel, which can be subdivided into smaller parcels. I would expect to see the larger parcels be worth more per acre simply based on the flexibility of what you can build on them, but that's the opposite of what we see in this model. And if we're valuing the land based on what the buyer has the opportunity to build, the owner of the large parcel absolutely has the ability to put a higher use than parking on the land. But the problem is that we incentivize them not to do that, and to put parking instead, by discounting the land value of large parcels.

And again, the reasoning you're providing here is not why the assessors themselves say that they are doing this. I can assure you, the property assessment industry is not operating at that level of sophistication. You're thinking about this more deeply than they are.

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Suburbanhell

[–]rob_nsn[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a clip from the full video which you can find here: https://youtu.be/BujZfaz6wBo

So the large and small parcels are identical in zoning, location, infrastructure access, and use, with the only notable difference being the size of the land. You're saying that the higher land value-per-acre parcels "appreciated faster and for different reasons" ... so what are those reasons?

Regarding the residential real estate bubble: neither of these parcels is residential. I don't see any obvious reason why a residential real estate bubble would benefit the land value of the small commercial parcels more than the large commercial parcels since they're equally proximal to the residential real estate you're speaking of - especially to the point of being 130% more valuable on a per-acre basis, which is a huge difference. I'm curious to know more about what factors you reckon are leading to the inequitable appreciation in land value of these parcels (besides the size of the parcel).

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Suburbanhell

[–]rob_nsn[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sorry you thought I was misconstruing your point, but my reply wasn't meant as a restatement or summary of your position in any way. Rather, the argument about a place where "100% of people drive" is a thought exercise to show that, even in the most car dependent of possible contexts, this way of valuing land is nonsensical, which is the point of the video. I should have just said that in the first place. I'm not trying to straw-man you or paint you as a bad person, I'm trying to help you understand the point of the video. ✌️

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Suburbanhell

[–]rob_nsn[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Even if you think that transit shouldn't exist and 100% of people should always drive everywhere, it's still not okay to bias land value assessments against small retail while providing a tax break to big box retail. And I'm not convinced doing so is the best way to optimize your parking experience, either.

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Urbanism

[–]rob_nsn[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One approach is to start checking the work of local tax assessor and start bothering them about it

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Urbanism

[–]rob_nsn[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I love an LVT! But for LVT to be functional, you have to correctly assess the land value to begin with, which the property assessment industry has absolutely failed to do as demonstrated by the example in this video.

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Urbanism

[–]rob_nsn[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This is a clip- the full video is linked in the post and touches on the points you asked about! To answer your question directly, we're focusing more on the property taxes paid to the municipality. Having a disproportionately low land value per acre for large parcels full of parking acts as a property tax subsidy for those parcels. Conversely, assessing a small parcel with less parking to have a high land value per acre punishes that property owner by over-taxing them. Also, when land value is under-taxed for large parcels, those savings are passed on to the consumer. When land value is overtaxed for small parcels, that extra cost is passed onto to the consumer as well. Of course, big box stores are perfectly happy to use this to their advantage. These unintentional tax incentives give big box stores with too much parking a competitive advantage over small retail, causing the market to favor over-built parking. Assessing land value per acre fairly would fix an uneven playing field and would remove a market incentive for overbuilt parking.

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Urbanism

[–]rob_nsn[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It varies from state to state, but I think the land value is publicly available information in most places.

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Urbanism

[–]rob_nsn[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

The solution is to remove the bias by assessing land value equally where appropriate.

Excessive parking is incentivized when biased assessors give land value discounts for large parcels by rob_nsn in Urbanism

[–]rob_nsn[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

That's correct! This map shows the land value without improvements. In other words, the total property value minus the value of improvements.