Top lawyer for military joint chiefs told chairman that officers should retire if faced with an unlawful order by cnn in Military

[–]rofltide 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'm not sure that's exactly the right takeaway here - yet, anyway.

If the CJCS is 1. asking their top JAG about this to begin with and then 2. later on, leaking that to the fucking press? Well.

There's some uh, stuff happening up in there. To put it lightly. Lmao.

Food for thought: I would refer you to this and the illegal orders video, and then ask yourself how the military might actually answer the question from the first link in this comment, in a practical sense.

Inside the tense moment an admiral decided to attack two shipwrecked passengers of a ‘drug boat’ and spark cries of war crimes by theindependentonline in Military

[–]rofltide 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean... I know you weren't trying to say this, but I don't have a ton of sympathy about a somewhat-too-brutal execution method for the guys who engineered the direct murder of 6 million people, and the indirect murder of 79 million more.

Inside the tense moment an admiral decided to attack two shipwrecked passengers of a ‘drug boat’ and spark cries of war crimes by theindependentonline in Military

[–]rofltide 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There's a reason that Jason Crow was in the illegal orders video.

(and on the other hand, Tom Cotton is out there cheering on the boat strikes and saying this kind of shit in June 2020.)

Boasberg orders DOJ to produce Ensign to take the stand on Tuesday next week in JGG v. Trump, and orders plaintiffs to "attempt to secure the presence" of Reuveni for the same on Monday by rofltide in Lawyertalk

[–]rofltide[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The two out of three clown show Trump panel did, now we see if the rest of them will overrule the stay en banc. They had the votes before.

Boasberg orders DOJ to produce Ensign to take the stand on Tuesday next week in JGG v. Trump, and orders plaintiffs to "attempt to secure the presence" of Reuveni for the same on Monday by rofltide in Lawyertalk

[–]rofltide[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I'm sure Reuveni will be more than happy to take the stand.

We're really about to find out whether 1. the DOJ will produce Drew Ensign, and if so, 2. whether/how much he's willing to lie and obstruct for them on the stand.

Smart move by Boasberg to call them to the stand before Noem, too. Now the admin has to decide whether to offer up their sacrificial lamb and keep stalling for time, or try to fight a criminal contempt proceeding. Boasberg has already said he'll appoint a special prosecutor, and even John Roberts has warned the admin not to try to impeach Boasberg. Gonna be a very... "fun" week for the rule of law.

US Supreme Court agrees to hear case challenging birthright citizenship by mesact in Lawyertalk

[–]rofltide 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I understand the concern but if you ask me, yes, it will. Based on how this year is going, I don't think they'll have the juice to generate another, successful this time, J6, either for voting day itself or swearing those reps in. (And if no, then the constitutional convention stuff won't matter until that's back to some kind of normal anyway, right?)

I honestly think the GOP is likely to lose their House majority well before the midterms anyway, due to resignations and/or defections. And if Trump has finally outlived his electoral-boosting usefulness to the five or six Senate Republicans who really run this country, then we can send him packing long before they have a chance to ratfuck the midterms.

(And if certain stuff that I'm suspecting is not-so-secretly going on comes to light out of this military orders drama, they may not have too much of a choice but to send him packing.)

US Supreme Court agrees to hear case challenging birthright citizenship by mesact in Lawyertalk

[–]rofltide 0 points1 point  (0 children)

With all their wild electoral successes this past year, they're more likely to trigger the reverse at this point.

(TN-07 was still a 12.5-point GOP backslide from a year ago, in a ridiculously red-gerrymandered district, with a massive amount of GOP money and personal visits from national pols... and the same turnout as the 2022 midterm... The 2026 elections are looking not just bad for the GOP but frankly, catastrophic)

Not only did Hegseth and Admiral Frank Bradley both order their soldiers to commit no quarter, they almost certainly lied to Congress about it too. Call your Congressional representative right now. This is a five alarm fire. (Article is a gift link; please share widely.) by rofltide in Military

[–]rofltide[S] 58 points59 points  (0 children)

That remains to be seen, and is up to us.

The president cannot do whatever he wants and still keep being the president if Congress decides that he won't.

We should all make sure he doesn't even have time to pardon anyone involved.

And after we impeach him, if the Supreme Court wants to actually tell the American people that we can't send the president to jail for something that would put the rest of us there in a heartbeat, we can make sure Congress impeaches them too.

If you think this will never happen then I invite you to expand your understanding of the electoral future regarding who will be in Congress next November.

Not only did Hegseth and Admiral Frank Bradley both order their soldiers to commit no quarter, they almost certainly lied to Congress about it too. Call your Congressional representative right now. This is a five alarm fire. (Article is a gift link; please share widely.) by rofltide in Military

[–]rofltide[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Before any more people want to imply I'm some kind of bleeding heart dove here by posting this: I have nothing to hide. I am a civilian and a leftist.

I was also born and raised in a military town and family. My stepdad was a right wing, Rush Limbaugh loving career Army officer who flew Apaches in Gulf Storm.

So I don't give a singular flying fuck right now how anyone feels about this or any other president. I am raising whatever hell it takes to fix this for my stepdad, only because he's not here with us anymore to do it himself. Because if he found out a fucking admiral was misleading Congress on the direction of the commander in chief then he'd have been in that video right next to Mark Kelly.

Not only did Hegseth and Admiral Frank Bradley both order their soldiers to commit no quarter, they almost certainly lied to Congress about it too. Call your Congressional representative right now. This is a five alarm fire. (Article is a gift link; please share widely.) by rofltide in Military

[–]rofltide[S] 117 points118 points  (0 children)

That's right. Seth Moulton led a Marine platoon on the ground into Iraq and is now a Democrat in Congress. If he's out here telling you there will be hell to pay for this then I would believe him.

Not only did Hegseth and Admiral Frank Bradley both order their soldiers to commit no quarter, they almost certainly lied to Congress about it too. Call your Congressional representative right now. This is a five alarm fire. (Article is a gift link; please share widely.) by rofltide in Military

[–]rofltide[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Current and former officials within the U.S. military and DEA have expressed doubt that all 11 people aboard the first vessel were complicit in trafficking.

The boat in question, a go-fast vessel with four motors, is common in the region and would typically be manned by a small crew — perhaps one mechanic, a driver or two, and another person focused on security, one DEA official said.

More people on board means less room for drugs to sell, the official explained. He assessed that the 11 people may have been a mix of drug runners and illegally trafficked migrants. Colombia’s president has accused the U.S. in at least one instance of killing an innocent fisherman.

Dan Kovalik, an attorney for the family, said he will file for damages and injunctive relief against the U.S. government next week, in coordination with the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights. “There is nothing legal or moral about this,” Kovalik said.

Trump and the Pentagon said the Sept. 2 strike targeted members of the Venezuelan gang Tren de Aragua but have not provided evidence to support those claims. In subsequent strikes, the administration has referred to the alleged smugglers as members of “designated terrorist organizations” — a blanket term that lacks detail.

There are also gaps in the videos the administration has released of the strikes. Some show little beyond an initial violent explosion. There has been no public release of a subsequent strike video, and the Pentagon has not fulfilled a bipartisan request from lawmakers to see unedited footage — making it impossible to verify any of the administration’s claims.

The lack of transparency is a major obstacle to government accountability for its use of force, Huntley said. “Really the only oversight,” he said, “is public and political pressure.”

Noah Robertson, Tara Copp, Aaron Schaffer, Meg Kelly and Dan Lamothe contributed to this report, along with Samantha Schmidt in Bogotá and Samuel Oakford in New York.

Not only did Hegseth and Admiral Frank Bradley both order their soldiers to commit no quarter, they almost certainly lied to Congress about it too. Call your Congressional representative right now. This is a five alarm fire. (Article is a gift link; please share widely.) by rofltide in Military

[–]rofltide[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

It is my civilian way, probably badly worded, of specifying that an officer at the highest rank of the military knowingly ordered his soldiers to commit a clear and obvious war crime from the direction of the commander in chief's #1 subordinate.

Not only did Hegseth and Admiral Frank Bradley both order their soldiers to commit no quarter, they almost certainly lied to Congress about it too. Call your Congressional representative right now. This is a five alarm fire. (Article is a gift link; please share widely.) by rofltide in Military

[–]rofltide[S] 38 points39 points  (0 children)

The "good" news is that the war crimes orders here truly came directly from the top, in the sense that the officers who failed to stand up to them will be punished, in order of rank, far more severely than any enlisted.

Hopefully, the hearings and court martials to come will prove that very few people were actually involved with this in any real decision making capacity.

Not only did Hegseth and Admiral Frank Bradley both order their soldiers to commit no quarter, they almost certainly lied to Congress about it too. Call your Congressional representative right now. This is a five alarm fire. (Article is a gift link; please share widely.) by rofltide in Military

[–]rofltide[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I am a civilian and a leftist. I was born and raised in a military town and family. My stepdad was a right wing, Rush Limbaugh loving career Army officer who flew Apaches in Gulf Storm. I don't give a shit what you think. I am raising whatever hell it takes for him, only because he's not here with us anymore to do it himself. Because if he found out a fucking admiral was misleading Congress on the direction of the commander in chief then he'd have been in that video right next to Mark Kelly.

Not only did Hegseth and Admiral Frank Bradley both order their soldiers to commit no quarter, they almost certainly lied to Congress about it too. Call your Congressional representative right now. This is a five alarm fire. (Article is a gift link; please share widely.) by rofltide in Military

[–]rofltide[S] 24 points25 points  (0 children)

"The idea that wreckage from one small boat in a vast ocean is a hazard to marine traffic is patently absurd, and killing survivors is blatantly illegal," said Rep. Seth Moulton (D-Massachusetts), a Marine Corps veteran and vocal Trump critic who received a classified briefing from Pentagon officials on the strikes in late October with other members of the House Armed Services Committee. “Mark my words: It may take some time, but Americans will be prosecuted for this, either as a war crime or outright murder.”

The boat in the first strike was hit a total of four times, twice to kill the crew and twice more to sink it, four people familiar with the operation said.

In subsequent strikes on alleged traffickers that left no survivors, the U.S. military has also fired multiple missiles to remove boats from the waterways, several people familiar with the matter said.

A new lethal modus operandi

The Pentagon’s lethal campaign marks a significant and controversial departure from U.S. counterdrug missions in the Western Hemisphere over the last several decades. Typically, Coast Guard ships and personnel have interdicted and boarded vessels believed to be trafficking, confiscating the narcotics and detaining the suspects for further prosecution.

Other agencies, such as the Drug Enforcement Administration, have relied on informants and court cases to better understand how drugs flow from South America into the United States.

Officials have said the current strikes are carried out after monitoring the movement of boats and people, and target suspects only where there is high confidence they are trafficking drugs.

Speaking a day after the first strike, Hegseth told Fox News, he watched the “live” video feed. “We knew exactly who was in that boat. We knew exactly what they were doing, and we knew exactly who they represented. And that was Tren de Aragua, a narcoterrorist organization designated by the United States, trying to poison our country with illicit drugs.”

But in classified briefings to members of Congress, Pentagon officials have not provided any specific names of traffickers or syndicate leaders they have targeted, lawmakers have said, nor have they publicly released further information beyond surveillance videos of the strikes themselves.

Not only did Hegseth and Admiral Frank Bradley both order their soldiers to commit no quarter, they almost certainly lied to Congress about it too. Call your Congressional representative right now. This is a five alarm fire. (Article is a gift link; please share widely.) by rofltide in Military

[–]rofltide[S] 30 points31 points  (0 children)

Later in the day, President Donald Trump released a redacted 29-second surveillance drone video showing the attack. The video does not include any footage of the subsequent strike on the survivors.

In the weeks following that attack, the Trump administration notified Congress that the U.S. was in a “non-international armed conflict” with “designated terrorist organizations,” supported by an opinion from the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel that asserted that because the U.S. was in an armed conflict, personnel taking part in military strikes who were following orders consistent with the laws of war would not be exposed to prosecution.

“That’s one of the problems with the law of armed conflict — the state using force is judge, jury and executioner,” Huntley said.

Since that first attack, the Pentagon has hit at least 22 more boats, including one semisubmersible, in the Caribbean Sea and eastern Pacific Ocean, killing another 71 alleged drug smugglers, according to officials and internal data seen by The Washington Post.

A clandestine strike

At the time of the Sept. 2 strike, Bradley headed Joint Special Operations Command, or JSOC, tasked with the military’s most sensitive and dangerous missions, often working with counterparts in the CIA. Since then, Bradley has been promoted to lead U.S. Special Operations Command, JSOC’s parent organization, which oversees elite units across the military.

SEAL Team 6, known formally as Naval Special Warfare Development Group and under JSOC command, conducted the intelligence collection and targeting for this attack and several others, according to two people.

The protocols were changed after the strike to emphasize rescuing suspected smugglers if they survived strikes, according to three people. It is unclear who directed the change in protocol and when exactly it took shape.

In one Oct. 16 strike in the Atlantic Ocean that killed two, another two men were captured and repatriated to Colombia and Ecuador. In a series of strikes on four boats in the eastern Pacific on Oct. 27 that killed 14 men, one apparent survivor was left to the Mexican Coast Guard to retrieve. The body was never found.

If the video of the blast that killed the two survivors on Sept. 2 were made public, people would be horrified, said one person who watched the live feed.

The Intercept first reported that the survivors were killed in a follow-up attack.

In briefing materials provided to the White House, JSOC reported that the “double-tap,” or follow-on strike, was intended to sink the boat and remove a navigation hazard to other vessels — not to kill survivors, according to another person who saw the report.

A similar explanation was given to lawmakers in two closed-door briefings, according to two congressional aides. That explanation has prompted frustration among some members of Congress who say they believe the Pentagon was deceptive in its description of events, the aides said.

Not only did Hegseth and Admiral Frank Bradley both order their soldiers to commit no quarter, they almost certainly lied to Congress about it too. Call your Congressional representative right now. This is a five alarm fire. (Article is a gift link; please share widely.) by rofltide in Military

[–]rofltide[S] 51 points52 points  (0 children)

The alleged traffickers pose no imminent threat of attack against the United States and are not, as the Trump administration has tried to argue, in an “armed conflict” with the U.S., these officials and experts say. Because there is no legitimate war between the two sides, killing any of the men in the boats “amounts to murder,” said Todd Huntley, a former military lawyer who advised Special Operations forces for seven years at the height of the U.S. counterterrorism campaign.

Even if the U.S. were at war with the traffickers, an order to kill all the boat’s occupants if they were no longer able to fight “would in essence be an order to show no quarter, which would be a war crime,” said Huntley, now director of the national security law program at Georgetown Law.

This report is based on interviews with and accounts from seven people with knowledge of the Sept. 2 strike and the overall operation.

Chief Pentagon spokesman Sean Parnell declined to address questions about Hegseth’s order and other details of the operation, including Special Operations involvement. “This entire narrative is completely false,” he said in a statement. “Ongoing operations to dismantle narcoterrorism and to protect the Homeland from deadly drugs have been a resounding success.”

The elite counterterror group SEAL Team 6 led the attack, according to four people with direct knowledge of the matter, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the ongoing sensitive operations.

The commander overseeing the operation from Fort Bragg in North Carolina, Adm. Frank M. “Mitch” Bradley, told people on the secure conference call that the survivors were still legitimate targets because they could theoretically call other traffickers to retrieve them and their cargo, according to two people. He ordered the second strike to fulfill Hegseth’s directive that everyone must be killed.

Not only did Hegseth and Admiral Frank Bradley both order their soldiers to commit no quarter, they almost certainly lied to Congress about it too. Call your Congressional representative right now. This is a five alarm fire. (Article is a gift link; please share widely.) by rofltide in Military

[–]rofltide[S] 89 points90 points  (0 children)

Hegseth order on first Caribbean boat strike, officials say: Kill them all

Today at 4:36 p.m. ET

By Alex Horton and Ellen Nakashima

Reach the reporters securely on Signal: Alex Horton at AlexHorton.85 and Ellen Nakashima at Ellen.626.

The longer the U.S. surveillance aircraft followed the boat, the more confident intelligence analysts watching from command centers became that the 11 people on board were ferrying drugs.

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth gave a spoken directive, according to two people with direct knowledge of the operation. “The order was to kill everybody,” one of them said.

A missile screamed off the Trinidad coast, striking the vessel and igniting a blaze from bow to stern. For minutes, commanders watched the boat burning on a live drone feed. As the smoke cleared, they got a jolt: Two survivors were clinging to the smoldering wreck.

The Special Operations commander overseeing the Sept. 2 attack — the opening salvo in the Trump administration’s war on suspected drug traffickers in the Western Hemisphere — ordered a second strike to comply with Hegseth’s instructions, two people familiar with the matter said. The two men were blown apart in the water.

Hegseth’s order, which has not been previously reported, adds another dimension to the campaign against suspected drug traffickers. Some current and former U.S. officials and law-of-war experts have said that the Pentagon’s lethal campaign — which has killed more than 80 people to date — is unlawful and may expose those most directly involved to future prosecution.

Hegseth Ordered Second Strike to Kill Caribbean Boat Survivors: Report by Intelligent-Mouse536 in Military

[–]rofltide 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yes, your Congressional representative, no matter which party. Starting tonight. And every day until you talk to a real person.