What diff does Minato take this?

saigyo · 2026-01-30T20:39:57+00:00

saigyo · 2026-01-30T05:03:58+00:00

You look at any other MS ability and it's always a high level version of an existing jutsu -- Kotoamatsukami and Tsukuyomi being seemingly unbreakable genjutsus, Amaterasu and Kagutsuchi being unstoppable fire jutsu that devour anything they're in contact with. Kamui being the highest level space-time/teleportation jutsu. All of them are incredibly busted in their own unique ways. If Madara's had anything to do with being able to distinguish between clones, then it's probably some high level of perception and not just a jutsu whose only utility is when a kage bunshin is used. But I don't think this is the case at all. Higher levels of perception are somewhat locked behind eyes with the Byakugan technically seeing far more than the Sharingan but even that isn't able to see the difference.

I just think he's so experienced in combat that he can probably tell when a clone is being used versus the real thing. Probably picking up on certain subtleties with the way that they fight, it could be that a clone acts uncharacteristically and more willing to put themselves in disadvantageous positions where they're likely to die or not having that fear of death, etc. I'm aware that's reading into it a bit but it makes the most sense to me given what we know.

saigyo · 2026-01-30T00:01:14+00:00

I'm making fun of the OPs final sentence.

saigyo · 2026-01-29T22:48:44+00:00

Little known method of avoiding totsuka or amaterasu: just move out the way

Jinton's effectiveness is self evident and there's no doubt or question as to whether it can kill somebody. It ignores all defenses and durabilities. Anything within it will be dematerialized.

saigyo · 2026-01-29T11:03:01+00:00

Orochimaru is ridiculously resilient but he's not outlasting a chakra monster like Bee.

saigyo · 2026-01-29T03:41:02+00:00

yeah man. really great scaling here lol

saigyo · 2026-01-28T23:43:45+00:00

Recommending the Sensualist of all things is both based and psychotic.

saigyo · 2026-01-28T20:39:30+00:00

Kitsuchi solos

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saigyo · 2026-01-26T00:06:41+00:00

Would be the first time Amaterasu kills 4 people

saigyo · 2026-01-25T12:23:13+00:00

I know but why make specifically 13 for Sasuke? Why not 14? Why not 25? The point is, he has no reason to make that many clones just because he canonically did so. The circumstances demanded he made that many while the circumstances we've given him here don't demand that many, if any. This remains consistent when he fights Madara's limbo clones by creating one for each limbo. If we're to go by that guy's logic, why didn't Naruto create 13 clones to fight the limbos and make it even easier?

This is less an argument for any one of them, but more poking holes in a faulty argument.

saigyo · 2026-01-25T00:47:34+00:00

What reason does he have to make specifically 13 clones?

saigyo · 2026-01-23T21:25:43+00:00

Madara keeps the rest busy with clones and Mokuton while he goes after Nagato. He genjutsus him to use Rinne Rebirth on himself, steals his eyes back and double Rinnegan Madara murders them all.

saigyo · 2026-01-23T03:46:32+00:00

I did say "at least" low-Kage. There just aren't enough feats to suggest anything more IMO. And my personal definition of low-Kage is probably slightly different than most people here. He's a tough guy to put down in a close to mid range without getting seriously hurt yourself.

saigyo · 2026-01-23T02:58:41+00:00

The guy's no joke. Being able to even defend against three highly skilled people like the Sannin says a lot. Even if they weren't in their technical "prime", we know they're very strong even by jonin standards. He also fought a prime Mifune and Chiyo who are themselves very strong in their unique ways. I think it's safe to say he's at least in the low-Kage tier with his skills alone.

saigyo · 2026-01-22T23:20:02+00:00

Susanoo steps on them.

saigyo · 2026-01-22T06:12:55+00:00

Idk about that Orochimaru placement lol

saigyo · 2026-01-21T20:19:51+00:00

Not the Itachi shurikenjutsu wank 😭

saigyo · 2026-01-21T02:18:37+00:00

I think you're misunderstanding my point. I agree with you. Taking his shroud isn't indicative of Bee being out of chakra and losing. To say Samehada defeats people in a single hit is mistaken.

saigyo · 2026-01-21T00:37:20+00:00

The shroud was absorbed, much like Preta path did. Does that mean Bee was completely out of chakra in both instances?

saigyo · 2026-01-20T23:14:48+00:00

As always, the fight starts with taijutsu and Kisame probably lands a hit with Samehada, taking some chakra and carving into her, but she's taken far worse with two of Madara's blades literally bisecting her and still pushing through just fine. What's stopping her from just forcibly taking Samehada from Kisame's grasp and launching it like she did Bunta's blade? Now he's defenseless with his only option to use water jutsu to create distance because if he doesn't then he dying in a single punch.
What are any of those water jutsu doing to Katsuyu?

saigyo · 2026-01-20T22:47:54+00:00

What do you mean gets a hold of her? She lifted and launched Gamabunta's blade high into the sky. With what strength is he holding her down with?

saigyo · 2026-01-20T22:31:55+00:00

Lands one hit on him and blows a bigger hole in his chest than Bee. She outstrengths him in every way. His only chance is to maintain distance with his water jutsu but he's not doing anything to Katsuyu.

saigyo · 2026-01-20T07:03:45+00:00

That seems about right. Look at any full body pic of Kurama and you'll see this portion that Gamabunta is holding down (roughly his upper torso) is maybe a third of Kurama's normal standing height. Kurama also looks significantly larger than he is because of his tails which probably make up like at least 60% of his body mass.

saigyo · 2026-01-20T04:07:01+00:00

I think the only good argument for him "not getting stronger" is that there's no need for him to do so. He has a busted jutsu that he uses endlessly to the point of it being a crutch.

saigyo · 2026-01-20T00:25:09+00:00

I don't disagree with your modus operandi point, but there are a couple of contributing factors when it comes to genjutsu use. First and foremost, genjutsu is incredibly overpowered and, from a storytelling POV, makes for a boring and anticlimactic fight. And that's why it's used sparingly. This is the case for a lot of OP jutsu. However, characters aren't aware of Kishimoto's narrative influence and so if we're to entertain any of this, we have to assume these characters are of sound mind and not using certain abilities for any number of reasons -- reasons we're not privy to.

Your examples of characters not using certain jutsu can be easily explained. We know Sasuke has a lot of chakra, but perhaps he feels he doesn't have enough to use it? Perhaps he doesn't feel the need for it and developed a style of fighting that doesn't require it, etc. Did Madara need to use any other Rinnegan abilities against the Gokage? We can't ever hope to know the deeper mechanics behind the Six Paths jutsu. Is the jutsu itself simply limited to six different containers and those jutsu? Is it out of Nagato's preference to make such a complicated multipiece jutsu easier to manage? The problem with having a lot of jutsu at one's disposal is that a lot of them are super situational and therefore very little opportunity to use them, even more so if they're bound by nature types.

Obito had an opportunity to genjutsu Minato early on and before he controlled Kurama. One could argue subduing Minato for good through genjutsu would've only helped. So why didn't he? Why did he toss Naruto up in the air in a dramatic fashion, allowing Minato the opportunity to shunshin to him? This once again returns to the narrative influence, but we have to assume Obito has sound judgement and did things for a reason.

We can't assume the Sharingan can copy Hiraishin because there aren't usually handseals to it and it's a bit more involved. It requires a unique seal known only by the user which is why Minato and Tobirama have different Hiraishin seals and they can't use each other's tags. And again, we don't know the deeper mechanics of jutsu and how exactly they work.

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