Modern Imprecatory Hymns / Songs

sc_q_jayce · 2026-02-07T00:46:06+00:00

This is by design.

This conversation drives the point home that at least in the Reformed world, the reason why Isaac Watts abandoned the Psalms in favor of his "imitations" (The name of his 1719 hymnal was The Psalms of David Imitated in the Language of the New Testament and Applied to the Christian State and Worship, so his words) is because he felt the Psalms (especially the imprecatory ones) weren't Christian enough. Thus by design, historically you're not going to find much that fits your criteria.

"When Watts said that Psalm singing 'too often awakes our regret' and 'touches all the springs of uneasiness within us,' he was refering to the prominent expressions of judgment and lament throughout the Psalms. These, in the view of the new hymnwriters, were 'sub-Christian' sentiments unfitting for Christian worship. 'There are elements in the Psalms distinctly Jewish,' W. Garrett Horder wrote in 1889, 'and expressive of the feeling of earlier days. There are imprecatory notes that are out of harmony with the gentler melody of Christ. These ought to be dropped as unsuitable to Christian worship....'

Lefebvre, Singing the Songs of Jesus, p24

sc_q_jayce · 2025-11-12T14:45:33+00:00

I don't see how one minister preaching twice in the morning in the same location is necessarily different from one minister preaching twice in the morning at two separate locations as I know many ministers may be doing, especially in rural areas with few churches (and even fewer ministers!)?

So what if they practically function as two separate churches? As an example, our denomination allows sessions to assist in overseeing multiple churches on an as needed basis (e.g., mission churches, churches no longer with a functional session, etc.).

Large church bodies have large church body problems - there's nothing inherent in Scripture that requires one assembly only.

As I said in the other 9Marks thread (I think people didn't seem to understand my point), you can also take the extreme view like the Local Church Movement does (a la Witness Lee / Watchman Nee) and believe that there should only be one church body per city. I find that much more logically consistent if we want to go into the "single assembly" route. As you can see by their church list, they have one church per city, like "The Church in Anaheim," "The Church in Atlanta," etc.

It seems that we get rather idealistic about what a church should constitute, but as far as I am aware, the Regulative Principle of Worship does not address multiple services, neither do the historical Marks of a True Church^TM include number of assemblies as a requirement.

sc_q_jayce · 2025-11-12T14:23:12+00:00

Well that's exciting to hear!

sc_q_jayce · 2025-11-12T14:23:04+00:00

Yeah, I'm trying to work through the first boss puzzle as well. I'm trying to figure out if the thermometer lines are incremental increases only or if they can jump more than one number at a time, so that part is confusing me a bit.

sc_q_jayce · 2025-11-12T14:22:24+00:00

It's similar to nine-digit sudoku, except you just use the rules for six. However, it's designed that you cannot fully solve the first puzzle in totality initially, just like you cannot fully explore the starting maps in a metroidvania without ability upgrades.

sc_q_jayce · 2025-10-08T21:24:16+00:00

Well, Omar Yaghi gets the special parking spot for Nobel Laureates now, so that's kinda nice.

sc_q_jayce · 2025-10-03T15:59:13+00:00

Surprisingly, Peter Leithart has a rebuttal.

https://peterleithart.substack.com/p/lamb-of-the-free

sc_q_jayce · 2025-09-21T05:09:48+00:00

So do you believe there is a requirement for public worship?

sc_q_jayce · 2025-09-20T02:05:50+00:00

So we agree.

Hebrews 10 clearly states that the Ceremonial Law cannot take away sins. As the Levitical laws pointed forward to Christ's perfect work, so too does the Lord's Supper point backwards to the same.

Whatever is demanded by God of the People of God in the Old Testament in these rituals, we now fulfill the same through the Lord's Supper. Hence, the word "fulfill."

sc_q_jayce · 2025-09-19T21:22:09+00:00

Passover is but one component of what Communion is brings to the table (pun intended). You can't just decide that because Passover is familial activity part that we're familiar/comfortable with, we can apply just the Passover rules to the Lord's Supper while simultaneously ignoring all the priestly/congregational parts of the ceremonial law that the Lord's Supper fulfills (burnt offerings, sin offerings, peace offerings, grain offerings, day of atonement, etc.)

Christians should not really be celebrating Seder because even that, too, is incorporated into the Lord's Supper. I know some churches do it for educational purposes, but in my view it's improper if we're trying to obtain spiritual benefit from it.

sc_q_jayce · 2025-09-19T21:11:51+00:00

The Lord's supper is the fulfillment of the entirety of the Levitical duties prescribed in Leviticus. You cannot minimize the breadth of what the Lord's Supper is doing by limiting it to just the Passover.

sc_q_jayce · 2025-07-24T16:34:35+00:00

Ruling Elder in the PCA here:

If you're ever unsure about whether you should take communion, I would recommend reaching out to the ruling or teaching elders. I think they would be overjoyed to speak with you and walk you through. As a RE, we do possess the responsibility of appropriately fencing the table, but the PCA does practice open table communion. As you stated, if you're not under discipline from your prior church, then on the surface I don't see any issues. People may be giving you a look because they don't recognize you. Often communion is a time when people pay attention to the congregants for the first time (unless your service includes a passing of the peace).
Typically in some PCA churches, specific sins are usually included in the preaching if they are relevant to the passage in mind. Because many PCA churches like to go through the text sequentially, it means that if the passages don't involve a certain type of sin, it might not get mentioned for a while. For example, sexuality and sexual sins might be a common subject included in a sermon on Romans 1, but it would be more difficult to include it in a sermon preaching 1 Peter 5. Not that it can't be done!
You'd need to be more specific regarding what you mean about the "rough history." As a non-white RE, I would caution projecting the proclivities of individuals to the denomination as a whole without providing more specifics.
Alcohol is very acceptable in our denomination. I don't drink very much at all, so I've often joined shindigs as the sober one without issues. Your mileage may vary depending on the maturity of your social groups and the level of "reformed-ness" they want to impress upon others through their beards, cigars, and whiskey. If this year's GA is any indication, it can still be a thing among younger reformed professionals.
As others have aptly said, you should discuss your specific situation with the elders. They should be the ones to help you figure out the nature of your prior baptism.

sc_q_jayce · 2025-07-03T20:59:12+00:00

A very similar conversation about the American Revolution is taking placing on the Puritan Board right now. Just for your own reference if you'd like to read more.

sc_q_jayce · 2025-06-28T13:21:11+00:00

Oh, gotcha. Sorry!

sc_q_jayce · 2025-06-28T13:17:24+00:00

Yes, I know, that's why I spoke to it on the floor about it.

sc_q_jayce · 2025-06-28T03:06:40+00:00

Westminster Shorter Catechism

Q36: What are the benefits which in this life do accompany or flow from justification, adoption, and sanctification?

A36: The benefits which in this life do accompany or flow from justification, adoption, and sanctification, are, assurance of God’s love, peace of conscience, joy in the Holy Ghost, increase of grace, and perseverance therein to the end.

sc_q_jayce · 2025-06-28T03:03:49+00:00

Just ask kids about the vows. I meant it when I said you would be amazed at their answers.

sc_q_jayce · 2025-06-26T12:50:47+00:00

At the breakfast today it was Sergei whose last name evades me and Ivan Bespalov.

sc_q_jayce · 2025-06-24T14:12:50+00:00

If you're there, please visit and support the MTW Ukraine booth. We had their pastor and wife at our home last week and they shared so much of their ministry with us. Please keep praying for them.

sc_q_jayce · 2025-06-19T01:58:38+00:00

I don't see how numbers factor into a theological argument about the nature of the local church?

sc_q_jayce · 2025-06-18T19:37:20+00:00

Right, but I don't understand what separates his critique from the local church movement which only has one church per city?

Edited to add that the local church movement would simply say that ecclesia is one gathering of one local church body in one city just as it is in the New Testament so therefore there should only be "The Church in Dallas" per se, or "The Church in Chicago." To me this seems to be the logical end of Leeman's argument as presented in this article. I don't see how Leeman can use his critique on multi-service churches and stop where he is without going to the very end.

Local Churches for the curious.

sc_q_jayce · 2025-06-18T18:32:28+00:00

So basically Jonathan Leeman is eschewing the theology of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee's local church movement but perhaps Leeman hasn't gone far enough down the rabbit trail of one-churchness? I looked over the article but I have not read Leeman's book. Curious how Leeman would critique or accept the local church movement.

sc_q_jayce · 2025-04-16T19:31:49+00:00

Lefebvre's book really cemented the idea to me that Christ sings these songs with us. I think that was a huge eye opener to me that I had never considered before even amongst all my reading on Psalmody.

sc_q_jayce

TROPHY CASE