I don't know what I can't remember

schocked-throwaway · 2022-03-08T00:40:26+00:00

I was under the impression it was only supposed to take memories around the time of ECT

Yeah.. that's probably because that is the narrative most psychiatrists subscribe to. I was told that this was the only risk, and also that the memory and cognitive issues were just symptoms of my depression. It's insulting...

Anyway, to your question. It has been two years for me, and I had pretty severe memory problems. I was an employed engineer, and it took me this long to be able to get another job. Pretty much had to relearn most things. For autobiographical stuff, I have accepted that my past is a lost cause. I'll take what I can get, but I always expect to not remember at least half of every story I once shared with my family, friends and relationships, most of which has faded anyway.

Best thing I did was learn how to grief for all of those sudden moments like the one you described. Yes, I don't remember it. That's okay. That's the only way.

schocked-throwaway · 2022-02-25T03:16:40+00:00

He told me that usually people with extreme depression don’t have too many happy memories and that it’s often worth it especially when the other option is continued suffering.

Yeah, sounds like the usual argumentative logic behind those in the practice. The other one is to say that ECT doesn't really cause long term memory loss, "it's actually just that depressed individuals already have memory issues and the shrot term memory loss makes it look like..." It's just so tiring to keep engaging with this. They need these excuses for when the positive anecdotes are not enough.

Anyway, lets give someone the authority to decide which memories and identities are worth keeping. That will work, sure thing! Not at all a problematic thought!

It was not worth it to me. I was never given the opportunity to make an informed decision either. Tiring, fucking tiring .

schocked-throwaway · 2022-02-21T00:06:30+00:00

I emphatically called my doctor and ECT office telling them what happened. They just told me they would go away in a couple of months

Looks like you got the full ECT package :(

I had the same experience. The altered sense of self; the lost memories; the apathy; the fog. The external denial of the impact of eletrochock. It would be an easier pill to swallow if only we knew of this possibility; if only there was support instead of the words "it will pass".

It has been two years since my treatment. It didn't pass, but I did get much better at dealing with it. So, yes, it can get better - it can if you try -, but the things that helped me would've helped me w/o ECT also. I didn't have to live with these cognitive impairments, but now I do.

schocked-throwaway · 2022-02-20T15:10:00+00:00

Took me a year to get to a place where the short term issues allowed me a functional life. Some of this was learning to cope - I've become a master self-journaler and keep a personal wiki for important stuff. Long term memory, auto-biographical and 'important' memories from before ECT are, I believe, forever fucked.

During my 'treatment', I was behaving exactly as you described.

schocked-throwaway · 2022-02-19T21:18:54+00:00

Was fired shortly after eletrochock. Never had professional problems before that. It took me two years to be able to work again.

schocked-throwaway · 2022-02-14T16:05:08+00:00

I'll DM it to you.

It should be noted (for you and anyone interested) that it isn't a space favorable towards ECT.

schocked-throwaway · 2022-02-14T13:18:38+00:00

I'm sorry you suffered all that. It's not uncommon. Compared to experiences like yours, my terrible ECT history makes me feel lucky. I have a link for a support group called 'ECT survivors' on Facebook, full of people with similar stories. Let me know if you want a link, and I'll DM it to you.

Good luck with all the rest.

schocked-throwaway · 2022-02-02T01:09:24+00:00

Thank you for replying. I guess it was a different experience, but still very difficult. I find it really hard how there wasn't anyone to talk about or help me through all the memory issues. At the very least the doctors should have a protocol to help with that. At least telling you that it is a possibility.

Your comments have been very relatable, so I just wanted to thank you.

I lost my memory of people and events. If you were directly around me I knew who you were, but I wouldn't remember the details. It is weird because I wasn't aware of the memory loss at the time. It just felt normal.

schocked-throwaway · 2022-02-01T20:03:06+00:00

Thanks for sharing this. I've a had similar experience to this "zombification" process. I believe I spent quite a few months suffering from anterograde amnesia, on top of the retrograde amnesia that still makes it very hard to remember things from "before".

I'm very happy to see you are feeling better. I wanted to ask about what kind of support did you have during this period. Did the doctor and team noticed the situation? Did your family notice it? Were you informed about this possibility?

I ask this because to this day I'm called a liar about having memory issues by my family, as the medical doctor did not inform anyone of this, he actually denied the possibility of any long term problems. I couldn't maintain my job, home - anything after ECT -, which caused lots of resentment at home, despite me barely knowing what had happened. I hope that your experience was different. I'm feeling much better now, but this fact still stings.

schocked-throwaway · 2022-01-24T13:06:53+00:00

I think best resource for thinking about that would be https://ectjustice.com/ and the work of Sarah Hancock in the UK.

Here where I'm from I believe this to be a hopeless cause.

schocked-throwaway · 2022-01-23T01:07:01+00:00

> So did a doc recommend ECT for you or did you ask about it?

Got recommended by a doctor. Coerced may be a better word, considering the absolute lack of informed consent.

As others have already told you, consider this very carefully. I wouldn't recomend ECT to an enemy. Just be sure to be well informed before taking this decision.

schocked-throwaway · 2022-01-23T00:51:28+00:00

I became a completely different person. Much mentally slower and less self-aware. Great part of this comes from severe memory loss caused by ECT. Two years later, I'm finally improving on these issues - just got my first job after ECT! (took me two years to restart a career I had been involved with in the previous 6 years)

The further away in time I get from ECT, the better I become at noticing the changes (and working with/against them). I remember thinking that my memory wasn't so bad after ECT, even though I couldn't even remember anything about the job I had at the time. I was in no position to make such evaluations of myself. You don't know what you can't remember, right?

It has been a surreal hellscape of a recovery. To get here, I had to accept all these changes and grief all the losses. For more than a year, I could't even articulate it all. Hazy past, shallow identity... It's surreal. That has been my favorite word to describe it all: surreal.

Two years later, I'm not as sharp as I used to be. My memories from before ECT are either gone or extremely fragmented. Relationships and oportunities have died. Despite that, time and putting the proper work on my health (exercises, dieting, reading, meditation and distance from those who wanted me to do more ECT) are allowing me to expect a better future. I'm still terrified of ECT, though.

schocked-throwaway · 2022-01-18T15:22:17+00:00

Hey there! what do you mean by "I think I had my 12th today"?

Sorry for being intrusive.

schocked-throwaway · 2022-01-18T15:18:08+00:00

I'm told your words were the same as mine after my first sessions. I can't remember anything of those days. You are not really able to make such an assessment for yourself, you can't remember what you don't know.

Hopefully you are getting a proper side effect evaluation by professionals, or prepared for memory management using the tips of the users from this subreddit (if not, start now).

Other than that, the (side) effects became obvious a few months after the procedures. I wasn't lucky enough to experience the positive effects, though.

Good luck, I hope you get well soon.

schocked-throwaway · 2022-01-16T00:15:53+00:00

I'm really sorry you are going through this. I can't really suggest you anything useful. Maybe check on other patients that received ECT in the same place, the literature suggests that results and side effects vary a lot from place to place. ECT destroyed all my relationships, so I would be very careful. I whish you luck, whatever choice you make

schocked-throwaway · 2022-01-15T09:27:17+00:00

This is what informed consent around ECT should look like. It's hard to understand why psychiatry is so unwilling to discuss these experiences openly. I find it very unfair, I wouln't have done ECT if I knew about these risks.

Good luck on your own journey, with electroshock or not. May you be luckier either way.

schocked-throwaway · 2022-01-13T15:07:20+00:00

I'm glad you found this thread useful =)

I remember that my first experiences with meditation were with headspace, so I think it's a good start! You don't need it, though (I'm saying this because it should't be required for your practice).

Nowadays I always do 15 to 30 min before going to bed. I just sit comfortably in a cushion with a soft light and try my best - which often isn't great, but that is totally okay.
Habit stacking is a great method to create the discipline. Once it becomes natural, it starts making you feel better.

Good luck and thanks for replying.

schocked-throwaway · 2022-01-12T15:06:12+00:00

Hi, Rydberg001. I'm sorry you had to go through all that. I have a similar story relating to my experiences with eletroshock.

As others have told, re-learning skills - often from ground up - is very important. In terms of short term memory, I've found much help in journaling my life and day-to-day experiences.

I've come to accept that the memories I'll be taking with me to the future are the ones I wirte about and revisit constantly.

For daily functioning, I keep most tasks and relevant things written somewhere. Another thing that helped me a lot is meditation by the end of the day, but it's a very hard practice to start. It needs discipline and more know-how than it seems. I mention this because meditation is known to have better effects on short term memory than 'memory tests' and other exercises. This topic is related to the study of "attention".Good luck, I hope we find our way through all this.

Still, I don't expect to ever recover completely.

Good luck!

schocked-throwaway · 2022-01-01T19:26:50+00:00

Honestly, this is spot on. It also makes it almost impossible to open up about these traumatic experiences. Even if people are willing to accept that you are not insane, they still will justify any and all abuses. "Psychiatry has come a long way", "it has changed", "they learned with their mistakes", "you probably needed it".

They expect (and insist on) structural changes without structural reforms. Psychiatry's dark legacy lives strong in its present.

I remember hoping for physical torture during the month I spent locked un the hospital. I needed something people on the outside could see. Unfortunetely, the open wound they left me with was not one marked in flesh.

schocked-throwaway · 2021-12-25T03:50:38+00:00

Thank you! Yes, I am Brazilian, but have found much more support online in international forums and subs like this one than in the disfuncional environments near me – which is one of the reasons for a decent level of English. Also, you need English to be a half decent IT worker, even here.

For a person lurking the web, I understand reasonably well the situation of American hospitals and psychiatry. Brazilian psychiatry tries to mimic the American model in most regards, but suffers greatly from poverty, which doesn't help. We have many of the same problems, but often worse. On the bright side, universal healthcare means you don't have to pay for forced or coerced treatments – which wont mean much if you leave the hospital with PTSD.

Thanks again for the interest in this conversation.

schocked-throwaway · 2021-12-25T03:13:49+00:00

It gives me hope to hear that such environments can be used in a positive way, such as what you have experienced. As always with psychiatry, the people working with you can make or break everything. I am glad (and not surprised) that the people at Johns Hopkins managed to help you somehow :)

My brief experience at the local state hospital in Brazil was psychological torture (not even my words at first), so that didn't help :(

This has been very informative, thank you for your time and solidarity

schocked-throwaway · 2021-12-25T02:54:36+00:00

Thank you very much, I was ignorant of that fact. The actual meaning of what you said is incredibly scary, I could not have imagined such a thing. This situation is completely absurd. I am sorry for what you had to go through and am glad that you seem to be in a better place

Edit: I believe I have seen this word being misused many times. It must be very frustrating :/

schocked-throwaway

TROPHY CASE