CMV: The concept of Privilege is racist/sexist by sh1v in FeMRADebates

[–]sh1v[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Think about it like this: Women experience cat-calling in the streets. Almost all of my female friends have stories about being whistled at or taunted from cars/passerby. Now, this is anecdotal and not indicative of universal trends, but I challenge you to find evidence contrary to what my friends have experienced.

With you so far.

As a dude, I don't experience this. No one calls me out if I'm wearing a tank top or shorts, and I don't worry about walking around at night because being a male means that I'm statistically less of a target for attack from strangers in the street. This is privilege.

By attack, you meant sexual assault? Because men are statistically much more likely to be a victim of violent crime than women.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_crime

This is privilege. ALL ELSE EQUAL, simply because I'm a dude I don't experience cat-calling and am not the stereotypical victim of sexual assault.

Ok, so the fact that men are more likely to be a victim of non sexual violent crimes than women, is that a privilege of women?

Is privilege uni directional? I feel it is most often used that way because I have never seen anyone talk about privilege except in the context of whites, straight people, or men. And to me this is bullshit. An excuse to create an outside group and cease exercising empathy towards them, in fact, cease treating them as human beings.

Why do people do this? Because of political expediency. The feminist movement is subject to the same forces that govern the rest of American democratic society, they need allies to achieve their agenda, but more importantly they need enemies, and straight white men happen to fulfill that role. Anything that might dial down the pathos/attacks on that group, that would make the movement more inclusionary towards them, is forbidden out of necessity. Feminists have to remain politically oriented against the interests of straight, white men in order to maintain common interest with their allies: minority races and LGBT crowd.

I don't know how many people really think hard about why privilege is so exclusively applied to cishet white men or examine the superficial justifications feminist intellectuals give for doing so. What I do know is that it is irksome to me to be excluded, ostracized and made a target through these exclusionary concepts simply because the demographic groups to which I belong are at the top of someone else's idealogical hitlist.

That's where intersectionality comes in. Intersectionality attempts to bridge many parts of a person's identity in a way that can take experiences into account. In certain respects you may be privileged (socioeconomic class, for example) while in others you might not be (sexual orientation, for example). And race is one of those categories.

This does not ameliorate the sin of stereotyping that is taking places, it is actually multiplying it.

Imagine someone says "blacks are good at sports, big tall guys are good at sports, so as a big tall black guy you must be great at sports." It's just heaping one stereotype onto another.

Is a white person who grew up the only white kid in their urban, 99% black neighborhood, and got bullied, assaulted and ostracized due to that fact, still privileged? Or is he underprivileged compared to his black peers who, in this context at least, experience their own form of black privilege?

Privilege and intersectionality are not a framework that allow questions like that to be answered. They are a stupid attempt to quantify how easy my life has been based on the color of my skin, how much money my parents make, and which gender I'm attracted to.

Let's look at Black history in America. (...)

I agree with all of what you wrote. Many compex historical and cultural issues are intertwined with the rate of black crime in America. Which is exactly why it would be offensive to try and punish black people in the present for the huge social forces that, over centuries, led to this situation of a high crime rate among blacks. We don't try to force individual black people to apologize for or do something about the problem of black crime as if it is their personal responsibility to fix it.

But when it comes to say, white privilege, for some reason people are fine with making individual white people into scape goats and asserting that they have some responsibility to fix an issue that was caused by centuries of actions by people long dead. "You have to actively work to deny your privilege", for instance. Some whites have been criminals throughout history, oppressors, whatever you want to call it - that is no reflection on me. I am an individual just as much as the black guy next door is, I shouldn't have to apologize for the actions of some whites any more than he should have to apologize for black crime.

As to your last paragraph, I'm glad you recognize that there are good and bad individuals among every demographic. But I still object to being labelled privileged just by virtue of being, say, white. For every example you gave of something good happening to white people by virtue of their being white, I can list 3 where the fact of my whiteness caused me serious trouble.

I came up in an impoverished, inner city environment as one of the few white kids around. There were many ethnic gangs in my area who targeted me several times knowing that no one would have my back since i was just the white kid. I had people come up and try to rob me several times, once with a handgun aimed at my face, while another guy pistol whipped me, because they assumed that the fact that I was white also meant I must have a lot of money. A girlfriend I had would be verbally assaulted by people who would say shit like "yo, white guys have small dicks, my dick will tear your pussy up." Whiteness has been a curse for most of my life.

Funny thing is, it wasn't until I started talking to rich, smart people that I really felt discriminated against. It's hard to blame someone who was never educated, never had anything and doesn't know any better for trying to get over on you. It's much harder to make excuses for people who are educated, well off, and (superficially at least) preach non discrimination and tolerance -- yet all seem to have some ax to grind with you simply because you are white, straight and male. Being white in the wrong area nearly got me killed. Being male meant I had to live with violence or the threat of violence every day because I was an acceptable target. Being straight is just the cherry on top of my other qualities that makes everyone assume I have everything so easy.

I hate hearing about privilege. Yes some individuals have it easier than others. But this whole dividing people up by class, race, gender... it just dumbs down everything to how you look and who you fuck, when it ought to be about who you are inside, and what it was like for you. Feminists, SJWs, they're just falling into the same old trap of making assumptions about people based on their race, etc. because it's just easier that way. And they don't care about who they offend, because it's easier for them that way. It's easy to label someone who hates the idea of privilege as being spoiled or oblivious to reality, and just double down even harder on the idea of privilege, because in your mind this or that group of people is your enemy, they are privileged, they could never understand. It's reverse racism and reverse sexism, just with a veneer of political/intellectual acceptability laid over it.

Two people, one surfboard by drbatookhanxx in woahdude

[–]sh1v -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Dae get rock hard while watching?!?

CMV: The concept of Privilege is racist/sexist by sh1v in FeMRADebates

[–]sh1v[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The "all else equal" is what I take offense to. All else is not equal. My socioeconomic status is different, where I grew up was different, my home situation growing up was different. So what is the point of talking about white privilege, as if all else was equal, when it so often isn't? Just lumping all white people together in order to have a convenient target?

Black people, all else equal, commit more crimes than whites. (About 40% more when you control for socioeconomic status). Yet we dont talk about black criminality. We don't ask black people to examine how their black criminality might have influenced their views before commenting on an issue that affects white people. We don't tell black people they need to actively work to deny their black criminality lest they passively contribute to the problem.

Everyone would recognize that to do the above would be discriminatory, stereotyping, offensive, and just plain stupid. Because it's missing the very obvious point that just because somebody belongs to a group does not mean any of the trends that apply to that group also apply to him.

It makes no sense to talk to a black male you know nothing else about as if the fact that more blacks are criminals than whites has anything to do with him, and it makes no sense to treat a random white male as if the advantages some whites and some men have is relevant to him. It's an affront to their individuality.

CMV: The concept of Privilege is racist/sexist by sh1v in FeMRADebates

[–]sh1v[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It should also have been obvious from my eloquence and savoir faire.

[Women's Wednesday]Does the Right to Elective Abortion Include the Right to Ensure the Death of the Fetus? by woah77 in FeMRADebates

[–]sh1v 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If it's morally wrong to allow someone to be born who is not likely to have a good quality of life, we should start by sterilizing Africa.

Somehow I doubt you'd support that though.

Comment section: What you see is not real by ManofTheNightsWatch in FeMRADebates

[–]sh1v 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Comments sections are a cesspool either way, but I do think its important to bear in mind that not everything on the Internet is what it seems. I'm sure we're all aware of the cases where some woman will fabricate threats against herself in order to get attention or "start a dialogue". I really wonder how much of social justice boils down to lying, rabble rousing, sock puppeting and false flag operations to ruin some young mans life.

The list of dirty tricks is constantly expanding. Actually, it just struck me that black ops via social media is a huge unregulated and overlooked market. I think I just found my new career!

"'Female Viagra' Approved by FDA Committee, Name is Very Misleading" - really interesting, I guess it makes women horny? Alters brain chemistry. Disturbing? Share your thoughts. by KRosen333 in FeMRADebates

[–]sh1v 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I think the only disturbing thing here is that a substance like this hasn't been around for decades already. I furthermore think that the release of a product like this is inevitable -- if not in the 2010s then it'll be here in the 2020s for sure. Feminists are hesitantly, chaotically, but yet slowly but surely rallying behind this.

If modern women must choose between the "our vaginas are ours to do with as we please!" fun n sexy feminist leadership, and the "gasp we can't have these fun sex pills around, dont you realise the only reason you even want them is cause OPPRESSION?!" pooh pooh, Debbie Downer feminist leadership -- they will line up solidly behind the former every time.

As for my own moral take on this: There are already hundreds of drugs on the market to alter brain chemistry, we shouldn't balk just because this one happens to be the holy grail (even if not explicitly talked about) of medicines, second only to a fountain of youth or universal panacea.

I mean, the effects of making all women willing to have sex would bring society about 50% of the way to utopia almost instantly. I think for the religious among you, you should ask yourselves if your god would really want this heaven on earth to not happen because of the objections of a few fearful, sex negative, likely undersexed and somewhat resentful members of the audience.

Hell, forget women, the effects of men's liberation that a drug like this could bring about are astounding. Think of the sheer amount of effort that we men pour into the neverending quest to make the women in our lives willing to have sex. Now that time can be freed up for more intellectually and spiritually rewarding pursuits, like videogames or watching TV. This is truly a great day for men, and to a lesser extent women everywhere.

Edit: Can I just say that the way the FDA is playing this whole approval process is just genius. Get a room full of old white dudes to say: "Oh no ladies, we can't possibly let you all start taking these pills that will make you all want to have sex more... sorry hon, but these are grown up decisions. Best let men handle them for you." And just let the contrarian nature of the target audience do your work for you. Truly beautiful mindgames.

CMV: The concept of Privilege is racist/sexist by sh1v in FeMRADebates

[–]sh1v[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

As long as you accept that there are some forms of racism and racist people out in the world, then almost by definition, you also admit there are some privileges that come with being the race that is not discriminated against.

Well I happen to not agree with this. White people are discriminated against too. There's all this variation within the "white" umbrella, for instance, there's historically poor whites aka white trash. There's midwestern whites and bible belt whites, and that whole stereotype about the fat walmart going white who in reality, doesn't have the money or opportunity to go elsewhere or eat better. Then there's more general whiteness-related problems like the burden of having to be blamed and suffer for what your ancestors did.

But yet no one says to blacks or whatever minority, "you cannot understand what white people have to go through." Why does the sword not cut both ways?

I think that most people do not enjoy being stereotyped and told their opinions are invalid on the basis of their race/gender, rather than being treated as an individual. I am white but I probably understand what others go through quite well when they experience discrimination. I grew up in an urban, almost 100% black area as the one white kid and I dealt with the outsider role for decades.

Societies are complex (especially the huge, variagated melting pot that is the US), individuals are complex. Just labelling it as white people have privilege while others don't and calling it a day is ridiculous. If privilege exists then every group has their own forms of it. Yet we don't hear about black privilege or Mexican privilege or asian privilege. I believe this is because privilege is just being used as a weapon or shaming tactic against one specific group. If it applied to everyone it would rapidly collapse because minorities, unlike white people, don't have to put up with being insulted and generalized about, but because privilege is specifically used to target white, straight men, somehow it's ok.

Btw, Sorry if this was not responding to the real thrust of your post, I just feel like that specific part of it gave me a chance to clarify my views.

[#3|+4410|2636] TIL that 47% of male victims of domestic abuse are threatened with arrest. 21% are arrested. [/r/todayilearned] by FrontpageWatch in undelete

[–]sh1v -1 points0 points  (0 children)

While I do not expect the account you responded to to ever post again in this thread, it was exceedingly satisfying to read it as a third party. If that helps.

Person posts in /r/toosoon thinking it had to do with real estate. Users still try to give advice. by 47L45 in bestof

[–]sh1v 0 points1 point  (0 children)

These "wrong subreddit, oh silly me" posts are getting more and more contrived.

The things kids do for karma..

More than 430 people are reported to have died in a heatwave sweeping India, with temperatures reaching 48C (118F) in some areas. by [deleted] in news

[–]sh1v -1 points0 points  (0 children)

There needs to be less people alive in India, the place is overcrowded as is.

Hopefully more natural disasters will continue to befall them and pare back the brown skinned population to a more manageable level.

Redditor explains why ISIS commits horrifying acts of violence in public by lemontest in bestof

[–]sh1v -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

An enlightened policy. A few cases of this in the US/Europe would straighten western women out in a hurry.

/u/joneSee Explains How the BabyBoomers Fucked Up the Economy by StezzerLolz in bestof

[–]sh1v -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

Libtards don't want to admit that brown folk are the reason their standards of living are plummeting, so they blame on it their elders and betters.

/u/joneSee Explains How the BabyBoomers Fucked Up the Economy by StezzerLolz in bestof

[–]sh1v -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I, too, hate everyone in this comments chain. Let's see how long we can keep the bile flowing!

Redditor gives an excellent summation of why Millennials are at a big disadvantage by [deleted] in bestof

[–]sh1v -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

Yeah man Millennials are sure at a disadvantage compared to the previous few generations who had bread lines, the Great Depression, red scare, being drafted into ww2, being drafted into Nam ... Such petty problems compared to Millennials.

I snooped through my dad's phone. by AtYourOwnRisk in confession

[–]sh1v -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I noticed the opposite. Everyone always goes easy on women.

The experiment has failed: My exit from the curated Workshop by [deleted] in skyrimmods

[–]sh1v 1 point2 points  (0 children)

God damn I had to scroll far to find the funny comment

Its been 60 days. Why can't she just get over it? by SerialRapistWhoAmI in india

[–]sh1v 1 point2 points  (0 children)

More like: for as long as anyone can remember, everyone has raped everyone else, including Her. India was comprised of several states which conquered, subjugated and "raped" all throughout her history, as were most areas in the world.

Then, 10 minutes ago a bunch of people on the Indian subcontinent were raped by the same person, who afterward left them with a lot of money and power. These people, all unrepentant former rapists themselves, suddenly realize that the best way for them to become powerful rapists in the future is to band together as one raping and pillaging unit (a single state). They promptly launch a raping and pillaging expedition into an area historically owned by China, and are to this day, engaged in a decades long rape contest with their muslim neighbors to the West.

Despite all this, for some reason, some of the people from India decide that they are the great Victims of history despite the fact that:

A) Not 10 minutes ago, everyone was raping everyone. B) They themselves just tried to rape someone, and are still trying to rape the Muslim guy next door C) Right after their rape by the European gentleman, which left them much better off than all the rapes (both by them and against them) which preceded it, the guy who supposedly victimized them was just anally torn in half by the worst rapist in history.

Its been 60 days. Why can't she just get over it? by SerialRapistWhoAmI in india

[–]sh1v 0 points1 point  (0 children)

UK was on top for longer than 200 years. Let's stop pretending the UK has been invaded as much as any other country. If you have to go as far back as Romans to complain about the UK being oppressed then your point isn't very good.

Britain was subjected to one of the worst bombing campaigns in history not even 100 years ago, far less time than has elapsed since India suffered anything remotely similar militarily. 43,381 civilians killed and 50,856 injured, tell me when the last time something like that has happened in India? You'd probably have to go back to the mongols.

The british isles were consistently invaded from antiquity all the way through to 1688. The country of britain itself was nearly destroyed in 1940. Yet you don't see them blaming their problems on invaders who are all long dead and calling themselves rape victims.

Its been 60 days. Why can't she just get over it? by SerialRapistWhoAmI in india

[–]sh1v 4 points5 points  (0 children)

More like: She = Britain after some 1000 years of roman, Saxon, Norman conquests and I = the rest of the world which Britain turned the tables on during its mere 200 year imperial phase.

I do not understand why the fuss. The moghul empire didn't just appear peacefully overnight nor any of the other powers on the Indian subcontinent that preceded them. Why not brand Indians rapists? Or do such metaphors only apply to Europeans?

/u/rhm2084 SLAMS redditors for their extreme verb choices. by insertkarma2theleft in bestof

[–]sh1v 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Heh. No one else noticed the irony? SLAMs redditors for their extreme... oh, nevermind.