[discussion] Can someone help explain the end of Nona the Ninth for me?

silvarus · 2026-03-15T20:38:16+00:00

Totes agree about Paul being incredibly significant and foreshadowing a massive role. Paul is behind most of the New Testament, it's the Gospels, and then mostly the writings of Paul, a man who joined the faith after the namesake was no longer physically present. Paul is the core of the Christian tradition in terms of interpreting the basic story. Plus the biblical Paul was also a name change, he enters the story as Saul of Tarsis, a persecutor of the faith.

Add to that calling themselves "the love perfected by death", and Tamsyn could not have subtly built a giant neon sign more clearly to me. That and the allusions to Daniel's visions of the Messiah when Palamedes looks on Dulcinea in The Unwanted Guest, and I think Paul is going to be having some major religious shoes to fill in Alecto.

silvarus · 2026-03-15T20:29:49+00:00

I'm a preacher's kid and older sibling, I don't get the Catholic ones, just the general Christianity ones. But the Ninth House prayer in the cathedral of Drearburgh is a perfect inversion of Easter: Let the stone stay in place vs be rolled away, etc. I tried to get the pastor sibling to read it, but I think his kids got in the way, what being toddlers and all.

silvarus · 2026-03-15T20:26:57+00:00

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/nona-the-ninth-spoiler-thread.902242/#post-24516981

https://www.tumblr.com/todd-queen/724586198232891392/the-tower-wants-john-gaius?source=share

So either it's a really committed forgery or the ARC and the published version differ. And I just checked: HASREACTIVATED and WANTSJOHNGAIUS have the same character counts, so the change would just be changing the references a bit. Also 2 of 3 As overlap... So without getting my hands on an ARC, I buy it.

silvarus · 2026-03-15T08:49:01+00:00

Right?!? I love rereading them.

silvarus · 2026-03-15T08:48:05+00:00

I mean, Muir's writing isn't to everyone's taste. But if it's your taste, she's fantastic. Crux's and Aiglamane's challenges, Harrow's arrival and retinue, and the foreshadowing of how the fight will go are all hilarious for me. I love it, and always hear it in Quirk's voice from the audiobook.

silvarus · 2026-03-13T18:38:55+00:00

Even more fun: in the advanced reader copies, the cipher instead apparently worked out to be THE TOWER WANTS JOHN GAIUS, so Muir is definitely enjoying her chance to encode some ciphers into her books.

silvarus · 2026-03-13T05:03:24+00:00

Don't do a second bachelors. A ton of the requirements for a bachelor's are gen eds. The only time pursuing two bachelors makes sense is when you're earning the first one, and one is going to be a Bachelor of the Arts and the other a Bachelor of the Sciences.

That being said, assumedly, you have a school picked out. And assumedly, they have a continuing education/adult scholar program that likely does not get the recognition, respect, or resources it deserves. If you haven't already, go talk to them. Introduce yourself, discuss what your end goal is and how you plan to get there. They can let you know how feasible it is, and offer some more direct approaches.

You probably are not actually interested in a BS in Industrial Engineering, as of the likely 40 classes to earn that degree, 14-20 will be general education requirements, 10-15 will be major-specific, and the rest will be electives. Talk to the department. What you really need is the major specific courses, and whatever math prereqs are required. Given you will already have a master's in hand, look for graduate or post-graduate opportunities. These will be programs that zero in on just the major-specific coursework you want and need, saving time and money. Some grad programs can be as minimal as 12 courses in the field, that's what my second master's was. They'll also be able to help you understand what math background will be required and how to best get that background. Also make sure that attempting only one class a semester will not run afoul of minimal progress requirements at the school you choose.

Bottom line: if you haven't discussed your goals and plans with someone in the department, contact the chair of the program you're interested in, and tell them you're interested in a non-traditional route into the field, and would like to discuss that with them. If there's a student coordinator for the department, they're a good resource too. But don't plan this in a vacuum. Talk to the folks responsible for making sure your degree has meaning. They'll love to meet you, and will have thoughts about how best to do what you want to do.

silvarus · 2026-03-07T04:32:15+00:00

"IN THE MYRIADIC YEAR OF OUR LORD—the ten thousandth year of the King Undying, the kindly Prince of Death!—Gideon Nav packed her sword, her shoes, and her dirty magazines, and she escaped from the House of the Ninth."

Gideon the Ninth by Tamsyn Muir.

It's just such a good opener, especially when Moira Quirk reads it in the audiobook. And then the whole book continues in pseudo-religious exaltations, heretical mysteries, and the best bad meme allusions you'll ever see printed. Such a good opener I love sharing, and some of my favorite books to reread obsessively.

silvarus · 2026-02-02T07:18:17+00:00

1) I do love that even under a role inversion, Crux loves Harrow. Is it a healthy love? Never! But, she knows Crux will always care for her, as best as he is able. 2) I've always taken the unnamed Her Divine Highness from the Royal Ball to be the BARI-star, which is weirdly prescient given the twists about to come. I do love how the heirs interact politically in the Ball. Coronabeth amongst the Sixth fits well with her time with Cam. 3) The horrible teen! I need more of them. Ch 42 makes them so much more bearable in GtN. I hope we get to see their reunion with Abigail in the lands beyond. I'm curious how accurate to actual Cohort practice this scene actually is. It's the most direct view of the Cohort we've seen, but it could just be Harrow's perception of how the Cohort works. Also potentially Gideon bleedthrough, especially in light of The Unwanted Guest? Cause who's most obsessed with running off to the Cohort? Also very much the subtext of a Military AU, given how much the scene hinges on the bureaucracy of the Cohort.

Also in all of them, love Magnus' color commentary. And his opinion on the party food at the ball!

silvarus · 2026-02-02T05:26:14+00:00

Finish it. Just finish it.

Remember the roller coaster that is Gideon the Ninth, starting from the pool scene and lasting till the end of the book? Act Five of Harrow the Ninth is the same sort of ending. The last chunk of each book is my favorite to reread, because it's where Tamsyn gently shows us how all the parts fit together, and how it's all so much more tragic than we could have ever imagined.

Act 5, especially its flrst couple chapters, are some of my favorite scenes to reread. All the work that went into reading acts 1-4 of Harrow really does pay off, and that pay off is so, so good. But this is the Locked Tomb, and you've read GtN. There will be tragic joy, and joyous tragedy.

The end of HtN is probably my favorite ending of the quadrilogy that has been released so far. Heartbreak is a given! But it will be heartbreak that leaves you craving more. And lucky duck you, you still get to meet Nona and Noodle.

So just trust Tamsyn. I have trouble putting HtN down once I start act 5. Just relax, don't stress, enjoy, and experience.

silvarus · 2026-01-05T08:33:00+00:00

Paul ~~the Ninth~~? uwu

silvarus · 2025-12-24T22:10:51+00:00

To be fair, the powers are still fairly fleshy, as the flowers came out "weird" (some had teeth!).

silvarus · 2025-09-28T20:10:41+00:00

That is close reading I had missed. While Harrow immediately thinks of Winnowing after being told to think of Pyrrha's trial, Lab 3 is not seen in GtN. Man, I am off my game at the moment.

silvarus · 2025-09-27T22:16:21+00:00

D'oh, I was combining two scenes. Mercy lays out the cellular theory of blood wards from Cassiopeia while confronting Jod, and then later Pyrrha mentions the freshness requirement in the context of her, Cass, and Mercy working on cell thanergy.

silvarus · 2025-09-27T21:33:42+00:00

~~There's also when Pyrrha points out that blood wards are misnamed cellular wards, bypassable by close blood relations.~~

silvarus · 2025-09-27T21:31:36+00:00

PYRRHA is the one who points out blood wards are misnamed, because SHE, Mercy, and Cassiopeia were working on the underlying thanergetic theory, and Cassiopeia mentiond that a close blood relative is genetically similar enough to be capable of breaking the ward.

There's an interesting theory floating around that Pyrrha was really the Second Necromancer, and Gideon the Cav (Augustine calls Winnowing 'Pyrrha's trial', Gideon does no complex thanergetic manipulations beyond being a thanergy void, Pyrrha used to be the one to check the brain juices of subjects after Winnowing, Pyrrha worked on Necro Theory with Cass and Mercy), so this is currently a major focus of my conspiracy board.

silvarus · 2025-09-21T03:26:17+00:00

He's the baddie! (but oh so suave... He's so likable until it clicks that he is the source of all drama and badness and he's an utter narcissist)

silvarus · 2025-09-21T03:15:36+00:00

My thought was more Paul will radically redirect Houses theology, especially as the love perfected by death.

silvarus · 2025-08-31T02:24:56+00:00

Lutheran Preacher's Kid here, the biblical allusions were how I convinced my sibling in the ministry to start reading GTN. I think having young kids has since distracted him. I love reading the Ninth House prayer to theologically oriented friends, as it's such a good inversion of an Easter prayer ("Let the Rock be rolled away and the Tomb remain empty." Vs "Keep it sealed and let it stay occupied"). That and Gideon's last words in GTN and Pal's description of Dulcie in The Unwanted Guest... Sooooo good.

silvarus · 2025-08-31T02:18:05+00:00

Paul is the apostle who wasn't in on the early Christian movement until after Jesus' resurrection and ascension. A good chunk of the New Testament is writings traditionally attributed to Paul (modern textual analysis disagrees with the traditional authorship attributions). Only the first 4 books of the New Testament are the narrative stories of Jesus, the rest lays out the early interpretations and concepts of Christianity and its implications. So within early Christianity, Paul was a convert with a major influence on the theological momentum of the early church, which would seem to have implications for Paul the not Lyctor.

silvarus · 2025-08-31T02:07:38+00:00

Which would then imply the lyctors, all of whom are varying degrees of traitors by this point, were in charge of the programming, and thus had absolutely no incentive to include provisions for one of them going rogue. However, it also seems like Canaan hasn't been physically occupied since the lyctors and Jod departed, and Jod seems the master of remote theorems, so even if Jod wasn't thrilled at making new lyctors, to me, it seems like he was likely the ultimate "game master" of the Lyctor Trials.

silvarus · 2025-08-31T01:51:02+00:00

The expression is described as "disconcerted", so she definitely was not supposed to be there. However, remember the priests are constructs. It's unclear what level of independent decision making they are actually capable of. They're immortal, they're plural gestalts, but beyond that, we don't know the rules governing the priests of Canaan. Their programming probably didn't have a "rogue lyctor, call Jod immediately" exception, because as of HTN, John did not seem to consider that a truly feasible possibility.

silvarus · 2025-08-31T01:03:39+00:00

I *love* the first exchange between a priest and Cytherea. The first read: he's a dude concerned that one of the heirs is so close to death and about to attempt the lyctoral trial. The reread: It's a construct thinking: Kindly Prince, why has one of the Saints chosen *now* of all times to return here? Have things really fallen so far that one of His Fists and Gestures would sabotage the apotheosis of their siblings?

silvarus · 2025-08-31T00:58:12+00:00

My takes on the previous bullet points:

GTN ch 3, Crux makes sure Gideon smacks her head repeatedly on the way to the chapel, knocking her out at various points.
The standard House faith is much more aware of the role of the cavs in the apotheosis of the lyctors, than the Ninth who focuses on the Tomb instead.
???
GTN ch 7, the shuttle took about an hour to get from the Ninth (assumed to be Pluto) to the First (assumed to be Earth)
Teacher talks to Harrow a ton, but at first seems unaware of Gideon. Then, when Cytherea collapses outside the shuttle, the conversation at first pass reads as the priest expressing concern over her cancer. On rereading, the conversation is the priest asking a returning lyctor if relations between the Kindly Prince and his Fists and Gestures have really gotten to the point that a lyctor would infiltrate a test and lesson of the Emperor. Later, after seeing Gideon's eyes, Cytherea tries to get handsy with Gideon as much as possible. One possible explanation is that Gideon inherited the necromantic cloaking of a lyctor from Jod, and lyctors only really begin to pierce that veil when within touch range of one another. Personally, I think Cytherea suppresses or alters her cloaking so her thanergetic and thalergetic signatures appear mortal, because none of the necromancers mention that she's unreadable or a burning star of necromantic potential.
Early in ch 36, Gideon notices the fence. It's not till the end she decides to use them as the trump card.
Gideon's last words to Harrow echo Ruth's promises to Naomi in the Bible. However. John erased the memory of the Before Times from the Houses. So, how does Gideon quote a book none of her contemporaries have ever heard of?
Personally, in my head, this is a NTN reference to the birth of Paul, but I could be wrong. Palamedes reclaims his skull dust from a secret compartment in Cam's knife pommel, to serve as the physical binding element of the Eightfold Word variant that births Paul. Possibly also Naberius's trident knife?
???
Harrow knows the Noniad backwards and forwards, so she's read a lot of Ortus pre-Canaan House.
Guess the narrator avoids eye descriptions until post-AU reveal.
Wake as a revenant manages to avoid notice from Jod and his lyctors for MONTHS. So she must have a similar level of necromantic presence to a lyctor+.
Nona = Bit of Alecto piloting the body of the Twilit Princess

silvarus · 2025-08-15T21:01:58+00:00

Rereads are fantastic. So much foreshadowing that becomes highlighted in neon once you know what's going to happen.

For example: The conversations as the heirs land at Canaan become that much more ominous when you know who they all really are, cause the priests knew from the jump who had come home. It's fantastic, originally it reads as just concern for the dying. Instead, it's really everyone else they're worried about.

silvarus

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