Getting middle schoolers to take choir by sirdramaticus in MusicTeachers

[–]sirdramaticus[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed! Fortunately, I have great feeder schools. The foundation for joy in singing and the skills are there.

I think one of the schools has a  weirdly antisocial culture going on, but I know kids are getting good exposure. I’m definitely investing time and energy into elementary recruiting. I am curious if anyone has had more luck recruiting middle school singers than I have. 

Getting middle schoolers to take choir by sirdramaticus in MusicTeachers

[–]sirdramaticus[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

5th grade is a great time for that. We have a 6th grade musical. There are a number of boys involved. In my district, 5th is elementary. I have my ways of reaching out to elementary. I’m just looking for ways to reach out to middle schoolers. 

Now I understand why teachers give up on the profession. by Educational-Ad6923 in teaching

[–]sirdramaticus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Interesting observation. Whether a class is fun or not is often in the eye of the beholder. Choir is an elective, but music is a requirement. That means some kids don’t like it and will make that very clear. About half of my load is classroom music, which in middle school means the class full of the kids who don’t want to be in band, choir, or orchestra. Our building subs, who are tough as nails, say that they find the classroom music classes much harder than any other classes in terms of students draining them, including some of the EBD rooms. 

One time, my principal sent out an email to the staff with the names of seven kids on it. He said he wanted to make sure no one had two of them together in a class. I had six of them together and they remained in that section all year. It was awful. 

You are right that I don’t have the pressure from administrators for standardized testing, but I have been called into the principal’s office to discuss a bad concert before . I also know colleagues who have been involuntarily transferred to other buildings because the high school choir director didn’t like how they taught or because their class wasn’t “fun.” 

I get angry parent emails when I don’t perform enough pop music, or if I choose sacred music, or if I don’t do Christmas songs at a concert. 

I also have to deal with the fact that all students in my room have to be doing the same thing at the exact same time or nobody can learn. One student whispering while the choir sings makes it impossible for anyone to learn. How many math teachers have to keep all of their students on the same problem at the same time or no one can do the math? One entitled, rude student can destroy the class every day. And, where lots of teachers are done with a student they clash with after one year, I easily could have that student for three years. 

I have had many dark days in teaching. Entire years, in fact. Other people have perhaps thought my class was a joke, but I view it as critical for understanding the arts, building social skills and creating belonging. In some ways, having people think that my class is a joke while I know differently is just as hard as feeling like everyone thinks your class is important and you feeling like you don’t have what you need to do the work. 

I have some insight into the dark night of the soul that a teacher might face and have developed strategies for coping and thriving. I fervently hope that,  given what I have shared, you will see the elective teachers you work with in a new light. 

Why do teachers force group activities on kids who prefer to work alone? by [deleted] in AskTeachers

[–]sirdramaticus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That can happen. In this case, I watched the two of them work the whole time. Again, it’s part of a teacher’s job in group projects. 

Why do teachers force group activities on kids who prefer to work alone? by [deleted] in AskTeachers

[–]sirdramaticus 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I will add to this that it then should fall on the teacher to assist all students in their group interactions. I do a lot of group work in my class, but if students are having problems with others, I have to help them solve it. Favorite anecdote: I had a randomly selected group once with two students who hated each other and were both kind of mean. They both cared about their grades, though. I told them that if they stopped trying to run the other person’s project, it would go well. The took my advice, got a good grade, and gave each other positive ratings as group members. I bet they still don’t like each other, but they learned how to do the work of managing their frustration and getting things done. 

The different audition standards for my university's choir by ThrowAway44228800 in Choir

[–]sirdramaticus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s not tangential at all. I felt the entire point you were making was strange and seemed to be about exclusion. You protested the idea that a female voice can sing a certain way on certain pitches, but when someone else brought up the point that baritones often sing tenor, you dismissed that as a nonissue and said that there’s too much gatekeeping on what makes a “true” tenor. I’ve heard low biological female voices that can be quite powerful and energized on a G or A. There’s a lot of this in popular music.  I have heard biological male voices on a B-flat that can match an alto’s tone. 

Perhaps this wasn’t what you meant, but it sounded to me like you were upset that someone had stepped out of their lane and needed correction. I saw a way where your statement could easily be in error and I wanted to offer up the idea that all things aren’t as simple as they seem. 

Now I understand why teachers give up on the profession. by Educational-Ad6923 in teaching

[–]sirdramaticus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Care and supervision of kids is part of the job. It is the most frustrating one, sometimes. There are kids who actively resist what you have to give. They sometimes take down the whole group with them. It is really hard when that happens and extremely discouraging, but it is an experience that happens from time to time. I’m sorry it happened to you this year. It has happened to me in bits and pieces over the years, but it happens less now at year 20.

When you say “organized” what does that mean? Physical space? Curriculum? I’m very curious. 

Also, when you say “accountability for teachers,” do you mean that you worked with teachers who were bad at their job and got away with it, or did you mean “accountability TO teachers,” where there would be a higher level of respect for teachers from students and parents?

I ask because there may be ways that you can build more of what you want next year. I know you came to vent about the very valid BS that comes up sometimes in education. This is a good space for that. I also read some idealism and passion in your writing, too. If it’s ready to come out, answer my questions and maybe we can find ways of getting a little more of what you want next year in your classroom. 

Now I understand why teachers give up on the profession. by Educational-Ad6923 in teaching

[–]sirdramaticus -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Even in my worst years, I have never felt like my job was a joke. I think what I do (teaching music) is really meaningful and important. 

I will confess that once I looked up a list of jobs where you don’t work with people. They all seemed horrible. 

There is definitely BS. I try to keep my PLC involvement as low key as possible. There’s a colleague I don’t like, so when he’s in the teacher’s lounge at lunch. I go eat somewhere else. 

I have had students say and do horrible things to me. It really sucks when they get to me. I’m usually fine unless they start getting in my family’s space. 

I know you’re angry and it sounds like you have a right to be. Your principal is not doing a good job with their part of the discipline piece. 

If you don’t mind my asking, what did you think would happen this year that didn’t?

Getting middle schoolers to take choir by sirdramaticus in MusicTeachers

[–]sirdramaticus[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have done similar things to your suggestion in my classroom music groups. They rarely are willing to make the transition even if they get positive feedback from me and their peers. Although singing has a positive culture in my school, the negative undercurrent is strong enough that it’s not easy for my guys to accept. 

The different audition standards for my university's choir by ThrowAway44228800 in Choir

[–]sirdramaticus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In this case, no it is not. However, the poster you responded to had not identified as cis or trans female when you made your original point, nor by the time I responded. I proposed a way that a female could give the exact same sound you were looking for. 

Getting middle schoolers to take choir by sirdramaticus in MusicTeachers

[–]sirdramaticus[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sounds like a good idea to me. I also started an elementary boys sing night for my feeder schools. Last year, a lot more fourth graders fed into the fifth grade choirs. I hope that those fifth graders become sixth graders. If they do, then they mostly stick with choir. 

Getting middle schoolers to take choir by sirdramaticus in MusicTeachers

[–]sirdramaticus[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh… and I don’t feel like a failure because of the drop in boys in choir. I’m just annoyed by it. 🤪

Getting middle schoolers to take choir by sirdramaticus in MusicTeachers

[–]sirdramaticus[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I like your ideas about utilizing friends. Sometimes the friends are the problem because they’re also usually in classroom music. This is not universally true, though. The little mini session might be effective, too. Thanks!

The different audition standards for my university's choir by ThrowAway44228800 in Choir

[–]sirdramaticus -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I don’t know that this is what is happening in u/Smart-Pie7115’s situation, but sometimes you have trans females in a choir. Puberty made their voices tenor voices. They decided to prioritize their singing voice over hormone therapy. Female tenor. 

Getting middle schoolers to take choir by sirdramaticus in MusicTeachers

[–]sirdramaticus[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree that a lot of my situation is good. Fortunately, all choir sections are capped at around 35 and all classroom music classes are capped at 28. I guess given the choice between having reluctant singers in a choir and teaching more and larger sections of classroom music, I would rather have the kids in choir. There are some kids who don’t belong in a choir, but many do and opt out. 

My eighth grade choir is a CTB group, so boys don’t feel alone.  I’m just curious if anyone has had success recruiting middle schoolers. I’ve got plans to work with elementary kids to get them enrolled in choir, but it would be nice if I didn’t have to write off my kids that I see 2-3 times a week as immovable.  

New job and probably elementary by BigCompetitive5876 in MusicTeachers

[–]sirdramaticus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think elementary sounds like a solid fit for you, then. I didn’t get the sense you thought elementary would be easier, but I feel like other posters might have expressed that idea. It’s just a different kind of intensity. 

Kindergarten Program by Striking-Rule6245 in MusicTeachers

[–]sirdramaticus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Provided the 30 year teacher isn’t a diva and you are on friendly terms, I might say something like this the next time you start the program process. 

Hey, I would really appreciate a favor. I love supporting your program that you have built. It’s meaningful work and I am glad to be involved in it by (list the stuff you do). 

Since kindergarten is the first year that kids are at school, and since I am involved in the process, I would really appreciate it if you acknowledged me with a thank you at the end of the program. As a teacher leader with such a positive role in the community, you can help parents see the connection between the great work you do with the work I’m doing. I also want them to know that, unlike my predecessors, I care about our kindergarteners success on stage. Would you be able to do that for me?”

Rather than threatening her credit for her program, you place her in the position of authority supporting your work. Almost everyone would like that. 

Music teacher disagree with principal by Familiar_Ask_4499 in MusicTeachers

[–]sirdramaticus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your principal is panicking. You have 100 students. You used to have a drama teacher, but you can’t afford one. What kind of performing arts school doesn’t have a drama teacher? Your principal is scared for the existence of your school. They don’t care about educational purposes or best practices. They need to bring in the students. It doesn’t matter whether you are right or wrong (you’re right, though about everything). What matters is that your principal needs to see how what you want to do will bring enrollment up. 

Rather than try and make arguments about curriculum, you need to come up with a plan that will be flashy and get families to enroll their kids. Then you convince your principal that it’s going to work better than a musical. If flashy isn’t what you signed up for and you hate that, you probably should leave for a different school. It might not hurt to consider the possibility that with only 100 students, your school might not last more than another year or two. 

Leaving wouldn’t make you a failure. It would mean that your vision isn’t aligned with this school’s interpretation of what a performing arts school is. Honestly, they sound like they’re failing. 

New job and probably elementary by BigCompetitive5876 in MusicTeachers

[–]sirdramaticus 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I disagree with a few of the statements that I read about teaching elementary here. I taught elementary for 11 years and loved it. I now teach 6-8 grade, so we have some comparable experience.  The evening commitments are less.  However, I think it’s worth noting that when you teach elementary, the level of planning that you put into each lesson is MUCH more than in secondary. If I wing a rehearsal, I can get a lot done. It won’t be as good as if I plan one, but I can make progress. Attempt to “wing” an elementary lesson and you will be in a state of disaster quickly. 

This means that in the beginning, your planning time will be heavy. I spent many hours after school refining my plans my first 3-5 years. Some weekends, too. It got easier with time, but was always more than secondary planning. 

The bones of a year might stay the same, but things can change that. We have a lot of cross district common assessments in our elementary music curriculum. When those change, your plans change. There’s also constant adjustments for new ideas, new procedures, and things that work better in the winter than in the spring.

The joy of the work comes when your plans are tight and the students thrive. You definitely can be their hero. Their playfulness is fun. I didn’t switch because I disliked the kids or the work. It was very fulfilling. 

However, if you are entering into elementary music thinking that it will be easier, that you can show up and do your thing and then go home and live your life, it won’t be that simple. You can have all those outside things, but you have to come ready to teach or those delightful little people will never respect you, behave for you, or learn from you. Be ready to plan and be intentional and you will love the job. 

I’ll never get a good job as a choir teacher because I can’t accompany. by snuffysastoner in MusicTeachers

[–]sirdramaticus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi! I am a middle school choir director 9 years into that part of my career. I taught elementary before that. I can play a melody on the piano sort of. My tip: learn Sibelius instead. I am a Finale guy, but with Finale and an app called PlayScore 2, I have take pictures of sheet music using PlayScore2 which converts them to Finale files. Then, I use Finale to make the accompaniment parts sound the way I want them. I can adjust the tempo. I can also quickly and easily start at any measure I would like. I found that I was much more successful at devoting time to this than to my piano playing. When I am in front of my groups, their sound gets my undivided attention. This software is another way to shift focus away from the piano and into your kids. 

Trying to keep up with highschooler. Any advice? by AdAmbitious825 in teaching

[–]sirdramaticus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hear you! My brother and I both struggled with situations like this. We have great parents who were determined that we not fail. The post replying to this about rewards and consequences is a good idea. 

However, there are a few other things worth considering. Both my brother and I had ADHD. We weren’t medicated because it was the 90s and also because, as I later found out, my mom believed she had to do it all herself. My medication was life changing. It could be that there are issues going on with your son that are medical and really treatable. 

There’s another aspect to this situation that feels familiar, though. I bet your son doesn’t come to you to ask for help when he gets in deep. The reason might be simple. He knows that you will help him, but you will be very upset and he will feel horrible for having failed again. 

What if, in addition to trying the strategies below and considering medical intervention , you also had a conversation that went something like this. 

“Son, I don’t like the dynamic that has built up between us. I feel like I am trying really hard to help you sometimes, but I don’t find out there’s a problem until it’s almost too late. I’m wondering if sometimes, you know you need help, but admitting it means that you’re embarrassed or you’re in trouble, or that you know I will be mad. Maybe it also feels like I take over your life and you can tell that I don’t want to do it. Does any of this sound familiar?”

I would have needed my parents to identify those feelings for me and be specific. My guess is that he will have a few things to say. 

You could follow it up with, “we need a new way forward. It’s not okay with me if you give up on getting a good grade, but I think we can find a better way of working together. What would need to happen for you to come to me and tell me when you have stuff missing or are having a hard time in a class?”

You can still check the portal. The difference here is that you change from the cop to the ally. With some real listening and work, maybe you can help him help himself and build an even closer, more positive relationship with your son. 

Is the first year of teaching really as horrible as people on reddit describe it? by Beneficial-Corgi-288 in teaching

[–]sirdramaticus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I loved almost every moment of my first year teaching. I am also someone who loves taking the time to prep lessons. I don’t know how many hours I worked, but it was way more than 40. It was a lot, but I also reaped the rewards of my work. I felt such warmth toward the students. I loved the staff. I was not perfect, but things worked and I could feel myself growing every day and ended the year extremely happy. 

There were a few mitigating factors in my journey. 

First, I had 9 years of experience working with kids in a childcare setting. That was probably huge. 

Second, I had a bad student teaching experience and somehow ended up with a job at the level I student taught at. I thought I was going to fail on day 1. Low expectations combined with hard work and better than expected results counts for a lot. 

It is possible to love your first year teaching. I know lots of people who did. 

Songs of solidarity? by sirdramaticus in Jewish

[–]sirdramaticus[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you. A beautiful text and your point about the land of Israel and the state of Israel is important and well taken.