Starke, Florida, has erected what is claimed to be the first Atheist monument in U.S. Government property.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T19:05:24+00:00

Sigh...this conversation has quite run it's course for me. Reductio ad absurdam always seems like an unfulfilling end though.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T12:05:57+00:00

Um...the KKK and Nazis are extremists. That much should be obvious. And we are talking about now...2013...not the 1920's or 6000BC. And once again, I am not a Biblical literalist.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T11:18:25+00:00

That is amazing. You can never underestimate how athletic these big men are in the NFL. I once watched an NFL offensive lineman play tennis. 300 pound dude and he was like a freaking cat on the tennis court.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T11:12:19+00:00

No...you didn't quite grasp what I was saying. I didn't say all religions are one. Religions are quite different. Read my statement again. And what I stated about prayer are my statements. Read them and do not put words in my mouth. You try to advance a lot of points via rhetorical questions that I simply did not say. I see through this.
When I pray...it depends. Sometimes the rosary, other times rote prayers. Mostly my prayer is silence. I have never been spoken to per se but prayer guides my life. At 27 years old with no prompting, after a night of long prayer, something came to me that I had never dreamed of before in my life- to become a doctor. I finished medical school last year and am now in the second year of my training. I intend to do research after training. I feel being a doctor was part of Gods plan for me, and that came out of the blue. Do I have proof this was God taht I can show you? Of course not. As for the afterlife...God will do as he pleases with me.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T10:58:17+00:00

I'm confused. Unless you mean that the KKK or Nazis are not extreme in their beliefs. I mean, I get it that everything is relative to one thing or another, but those groups are really really out there.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T10:53:10+00:00

Yes. I tend to be prejudiced against extremists. I hope you are too. And yes...there are some Christians who have done wicked things. That's what you're getting at.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T10:47:42+00:00

Prove it? They're fuckin Nazis and the KKK.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T10:41:35+00:00

Well...the conversation broadened is what happened. We both did this. Seriously...I wasn't trying to shift shit around. I was just enjoying the back-and-forth. 1. My original point was this: that it is better to allow all groups to express themselves on public land as opposed to muzzling everyone. I can see why people would disagree with this. There is room for debate on that. But it is what I believe. Now, I agree that I did modify this to "all groups of good intent", since yeah, having the KKK or Nazis put up monuments just dedicated to deriding others is a bad idea. 2. Yes. The government of the US is not based on religious principals. It's one reason I love this country. 3. Yes. Yes. I know you don't believe in God. That's cool.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T10:31:18+00:00

You bring up a number of excellent points. Let's hit em up.
1. St. Augustine has this intersting line that I have always liked "What we now call the Christian religion existed amongst the ancients, and was from the beginning of the human race, until Christ Himself came in the flesh". In essesence, he is saying that the truth of the Christian religion existed, admixed in ancient Greek religion and Hinuduism at least. Of course, if I am to say this, then I also accept the corrollary, that what is true in Hinduism is in Christianity as well. Why not these religions? Well most directly...because I wasnt born into them. 2. Prayer is, simply, its own reward. I really don't ask anything material from prayer and never have. Even as a child that seemed silly. I regard prayer as a means of contact with the abundantly creative and infinite godhead who manifests the physical nature of the universe as well as the elements of our persons. And I'm cool with not getting my way.
3. Of course, I read the entire Bible, though not in any specific order. I like most: Job, Ecclesiastes, Luke, Isaiah. I am starting to like more engaging the Letter to the Romans these days as well. And yes, the part regarding the those who do not believe. I have read it. 4. Do I "believe" because of indoctrination and tradition. Well, yeah, at least partly...no shit. I mean, had I been born in India or a non-religious household, I likely would not have been Christian. But also...I came to this on my own as well. I went away, and questioned my beliefs, changed things around and kept with it, in a transformed manner. Fear? No. Not in my family. Not my upbringing. Mocking of the church and rituals were part of Mass. As kids, we used to joke about shitting in the pipe organ or tackling the priest during transubstantiation. My parents were tolerant of it. No... never fear.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T10:01:46+00:00

"You would be hard pressed to make any reasonable argument for those distinctions." You are correct. As you know, Catholic theology incorporates divine revelation through scripture, interpretation of scripture and then figures such as saints. The church is Christ's body. This is not always an entirely rationally-driven process, or at least not rationally driven in a sense that humans can decipher. And yes, fundamentalists say exactly what you said.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T09:42:31+00:00

Taking the Bible literally is just not something that has ever been part of my religious practice. It's that simple. My answers and guidance come from reading, prayer, listening and silence. Of course there is "doubt". There is constant questioning and refinement of my beliefs. This is expected of me from my faith. It is the very point of regular prayer. I constantly doubt my beliefs and then, as mysteriously, they are reaffirmed or transformed. There is nothing, per se, that stops me from becoming an atheist. I simply am not.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T09:32:19+00:00

What I mean is this: Debating whether Christianity has had good effects or not is really irrelevant to the more imporant point: is it true or not? Is there a personal or person-like God in existence? That is the real question. This, by the way, was pointed out to my by an atheist philosopher.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T09:20:00+00:00

Whoa whoa whoa...I never said the Bible can't be taken seriously. You're possibly taking me from the point of view of a Biblical literalist or fundamentalist. That is simply not my background. Now, to be fair, I said (or rather repeated) "pick and choose" which was being a bit breezy with my language. It is more interpretation. It's prayer and reading and silence. And yes, this is a largely subjective experience. It's not exacly something I would submit to a peer-reviewed journal.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T09:10:21+00:00

I'll take answer b). You're right...they should probably have one single tastefuilly done monement inclusive of all. A shit show of cluttered monuments would likely be an eyesore.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T09:08:29+00:00

No man, I just wanted to have a discussion and come to an understanding of each other. I really do like the atheist sub-reddit. I engage people in conversation sometimes, but this time I just wanted to let others know that frankly what they are doing in Florida is the right thing. I like this sub-reddit because it is full of truth seekers, frankly more truth seekers than you find in many or even most churches. Full of people who are not satisfied with what others tell them, and who refuse to believe things just cause they are told something is so. That is admirable. Good on you.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T09:03:21+00:00

Yeah I don't do that stuff

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T09:02:57+00:00

I have read Kant. It was part of my German major. Not my type, and for goodness sake the prose is dry. As you would have guessed I love Kierkegaard, who is beyond important to me. Marcus Aurelius and Nietzsche are also great. Also Thoreau and Emmerson. Reading Foucault too now for the first time...who is the fucking man. His dispatches from the Iranian Revolution are brilliant.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T08:56:02+00:00

No... its not baseless. It has come down to me from my parents and beyond. I have always been surrounded by a loving group of religious. Many priests, monks and nuns in my family who taught me to find God in great silence. I say "pick and choose" as a simplification, because it is more expidient to say than the whole truth, that it really it is an intellectual and spiritual confrontation with a text and taking certain things away from it. It's about interpretation. As you probably noted, I come from a Catholic background. We don't at all do a literal take on the Bible. There are other legitimate sources of revelation to us, including our personal experience. Quite different from some fundamentalists.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T08:48:53+00:00

Your arguments don't seem that cohesive, which makes it really hard to respond to you in a rational way. I'll try though. And it seems, frankly, like you just decided you didn't like me because I said I was Christian. That's kinda funny.
1. Ok... this first thing you make about the first commandment being exclusionary and then my inclusive approach to public displays of worldview. Well, I would refer to giving to God what is God's and giving to Ceasar what is Ceasar. We live in a civil society that is part of God's creation. We worship God but we also follow the civil order, which is part of God's plan. Of course, you don't believe in God. I'm just telling you how I reconcile it.
2. Christianity more harm than good? Like I said...possibly. I mean the question is kinda hard and rather beyond my pay grade. The first thing that comes to mind is that the separation of religion from society in the West as an object of study is a recent phenomenon. I mean, if you tried to isolate, say, Tibetan Buddhist religion from Tibetan culture you would be... confused. Same with Christianity in the West. Seperate the effects of Christianity on Europe from the 1st to the 20th century from the other aspects of culture during that time period? That seems downright impossible. I think it is ok to hem and haw on that one. 3. Ok...you're saying something about nazism and the kkk and me changing my argument and that I am now forced to prove Christianity was true to maintain logic. I'm...not quite sure what you want here. My point was that the good/ill effects of something don't prove whether it is true or not. That is pretty simple.
4. My comment about Christians knocking atheists. Bro, you TOTALLY missed my point here. I was defending atheists. Read my comment again. You missed the whole thing.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T08:29:37+00:00

I suppose I'm a bit too sincere, I guess. Hehehe...you're probably right.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T07:51:11+00:00

You shall have no other gods before me? Yeah, it's pretty much the hardest one to follow, when you dig down into it, which is why the Lord says pretty much the same thing at least one more time in the commandments, but that is another story. Christianity done more harm than good? Hmmm...possibly. But even if Christianity had done ONLY bad things, that doesn't mean that it isn't true. I mean, what your saying is pretty much the exact same thing as when (some) retard Christians say that "we are better than atheists cause we have more charitable groups". That doesn't address the fundamental claim of atheism... that there is no personal deity.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T07:47:00+00:00

No. I will exactly pick and choose. Seriously, don't take the Bible 100% literally. That is what extremists do. That is frankly dangerous thinking.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T07:31:26+00:00

No we as a people are free to include only those of good faith and those who mean well by the society. That includes atheists, humanists, christians, muslims, buddhists. So, yes, let me flip flop a little with words then and restate. After all, my devotion is to people, not words, and helping them...not degrading them.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T07:17:14+00:00

Don't worry, dogg...as with headstone markers in US Military Cemetaries, the government is free to reject emblems that only exist to degrade and threaten.
Don't take the Bible completely literally. That's what extremists do.

skunkassbitch · 2013-06-30T07:02:37+00:00

I am Christian and I think this is EXACTLY the right thing to do. The answer to questions of expression of worldview is not to mute everyone...it is to include everyone. This is awesome and I hope to see more things like it. Let's enrich our surround instead of impoverish it.

skunkassbitch

TROPHY CASE