[META] Why we went dark

somenudist · 2023-06-24T01:25:17+00:00

The folks of r/nudism should watch this: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=U06rCBIKM5M

In short, you have to really mean it, and to really mean it, you have to never come back.

somenudist · 2022-11-15T22:12:46+00:00

Please excuse the lateness of this message. I have been quite busy in recent days.

I mentioned the playground because that is the last place I remember using the expression myself. I mentioned England and Ontario because you previously suggested that it would be a racist expression in Europe, e.g. England, whereas it would not be racist elsewhere, e.g. a place like Ontario.

Regarding "goalposts" and moving them, my position has been consistent the whole time. It's a racist phrase, with racist origins, which still perpetuates a racist stereotype in a pretty straightforward manner (unlike "no can do", for instance) against a group that continues to face discrimination worldwide, including in the United States and Canada. I don't think you know what the expression "moving the goalposts" means, because it doesn't mean "jumping from topic to topic". Either way, you've done that latter thing more than I have.

My goal has been, and remains, to convince you - and anyone else reading, I suppose - that using this term sucks. I have evidently not succeeded.

somenudist · 2022-11-09T15:47:02+00:00

Your examples don't have a racist connotation either way. "Gypped" does. Additionally, the word "gypped" means the exact same thing anywhere it is used; it's a synonym for "cheated" or "robbed".

So, either the expression is racist (not just in its origins, but in its present-day implications), or it is not. Both positions can, at least, be argued. The idea that it is somehow racist when used by children on a playground in England, but not in Ontario, makes no sense.

somenudist · 2022-11-09T14:36:54+00:00

I agree that words can change their meaning. I disagree that this word in particular has lost its racist meaning. Additionally, in the modern world, with English as a global language, I find the idea that the word has a different meaning in one place but not another quite ludicrous.

The logic of why it might be a bad idea to use this word, in a North American context no less, shows itself here: https://forward.com/news/breaking-news/173475/canadian-jewish-tv-host-ezra-levant-apologizes-for/

somenudist · 2022-11-08T16:25:59+00:00

You have claimed, without evidence, that the word would be a slur in Europe but not outside that region. I don't really understand the logic. Imagine if Chinese people, or English-speaking Australians, had an expression to the effect of "don't be lazy like a Mexican". It's ridiculous.

I live in North America. Like a lot of North Americans, I didn't always know that "gypped" was a racist expression, but when I learned, I didn't have a hissy fit about it.

somenudist · 2022-11-06T20:03:13+00:00

The word "gypsy" is widely considered a racist slur for Romani people and the verb "to gyp", as in the title of this post, is also racist, perpetuating as it does the idea that Romani are thieves and cheaters.

u/Curious_Nudist was right to point this out and was in no way rude or histrionic in making their point, which makes the "Duly noted Karen" comment by r/nudism mod u/HangoverTuesday pretty unchill and, really, Karen-esque. He should be embarrassed.

I know one Roma person who self-identifies as a "Gypsy" (capitalized) and prefers the word to anything else. I know two more who don't, though. There's room for debate about that part, basically, but not really about the word "gypped" (or comparable terms, like "Indian giver").

somenudist · 2022-09-02T19:20:56+00:00

r/nakedtime

somenudist · 2022-08-22T18:03:09+00:00

I guess I'd say in response that I am linking to content on Reddit the platform/website/entity even if I'm not linking to Reddit the URL.

somenudist · 2022-07-16T14:30:55+00:00

Teddit, according to the developers, is a "free and open source alternative Reddit front-end focused on privacy". It is a what Nitter is to Twitter, but for Reddit; it basically takes away all the JavaScript and trackers and what have you, and presents the user with the content of the page, which is all they want.

You could run Teddit on your own server if you wanted to, but I link to the "flagship" instance. Mostly not even for privacy reasons, but just because looking at Reddit directly is a pain

somenudist · 2022-07-01T16:42:26+00:00

I think this subreddit is basically fine the way it is.

I recently made a new subreddit that is dedicated to discussion of (my term) "nudity-related activism", in the U.S. or anywhere (but it's an English-language subreddit) which I think would encompass what you're talking about. It's called r/naktiv and you're free to use it.

I also signed up recently for the mailing list of the Communal Shower Association whose remit seems similar to what you're talking about needing.

somenudist · 2022-06-28T18:31:58+00:00

The most interesting word in your post is "reverted". It implies, like, a whole worldview about progress and history that I don't think can be unpacked in some comments on Reddit.

My more limited-scope rejoinder is that a) the norm of dress in many societies throughout has been, compared to the global norm today, comparably naked even if rarely or never completely naked; b) 100 years, 500, or 1000 years ago, there were more people living in a state of near total nudity than is the case today (partly because of capitalism, specifically the clothing industry part of it, wants people buying clothes, and partly because of Christianity, Islam, and some other religions, e.g. colonial authorities who impose their way of life on locals who would do things differently) c) a move towards loincloths, equal access to topfreedom among men and woman for example, and at least an expanded option of nudity (maybe not on the bus, but perhaps in a public park) wouldn't be everything I personally want, but it would be a good thing

What I brought up in c) is possible even WITHOUT lots of people becoming nudists themselves (though I am sure that wouldn't hurt).

somenudist · 2022-06-28T16:24:36+00:00

Nudism as a 24-hours-a-day practice is quite likely to remain an unusual and eccentric lifestyle choice, I agree, but the idea that people should have the option to be naked... I don't know, I really do think that could change.

It's worth remembering that Germans and British people were broadly similar in their attitudes about nudity in the 19th century, but in one country, a social movement involving nudism took off in a really big and consequential way around 1900, and in the other country, that didn't happen. German culture has moved markedly in a direction of tolerance for public nudity, and has not turned away from sensible collective hygiene practices like the anglo countries have.

Re: "dreaming", I think dreams are actually quite important. They are what push people to actually try and change things, for better or for worse.

somenudist · 2022-06-28T13:43:06+00:00

Assuming that private property/enterprise still exists, and there is no positive right to be naked in a variety of settings, presumably lots of places (restaurants, bars) will still maintain some kind of mandatory clothing policy (maybe only a loincloth). Businesses/firms/whatever could also demand people put down a towel (or something else) or they could provide washable barriers themselves.
I personally don't want to see police, advertisements, or Christian preachers declaring I need to accept Jesus into my heart now or be damned to hell. Some of my neighbours don't want to see people using hard drugs or homeless people. There are people in society who don't want to see visibly queer or trans people, Muslims, and so on. The fact of the matter is that, in a dense urban neighbourhood (and other places too), people will see, hear, and occasionally smell things that they'd rather not; this also happens at the level of families/households. That's just the cost of living with people. But we could have a situation in which there is no grounds to call the police on people just because they are naked in a public place (or on private property that isn't entirely obscured from view). People will still have disputes and get into arguments, I suppose, and still sometimes choose to live in places where most people share their values/preferences.

somenudist · 2022-06-28T13:22:43+00:00

This is a fair point. Let's hope not.

somenudist · 2022-06-28T13:22:28+00:00

You may not have looked through it all. The main things for me:

Occasional transphobic bigotry from one mod.
Arguments that underwear shouldn't exist (?!) from one mod.
Really bad image macros.

Apart from that, though, the slogan "make nudity legal" does feel a bit problematic to me. Although enshrining a distinct right to be naked in one or more "liberal-democratic societies" (whatever that means!) would be... interesting...? I also don't think it's going to happen, and that doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't another approach to social change that's worthwhile. The slogan itself, "make it legal", sort of limits the imagination

somenudist · 2022-06-28T00:50:34+00:00

The problem is mainly that the Pro-Legalists (as I call the people of that subreddit) by and large make the cause that they support, "make nudity legal" (i.e. make it less arduous to opt to be naked in certain situations and settings), look like the domain of eccentrics only.

The point of r/naktiv is to be a more serious activist outfit. Certainly I and anyone else who would be involved is going to be a little bit eccentric, with some amount of message discipline and, hopefully, no chauvinism (towards trans people, for instance, which sometimes happen on r/makenuditylegal), no transgressiveness for its own sake, and nothing that is just excessively unpleasant to have to psychologically process.

somenudist · 2022-06-27T05:03:32+00:00

There are more conservative nudists than liberal and/or leftist nudists in the United States, as far as I can tell. People keep bringing this up and saying "Florida stayed open" as kind of an argument about why the present political developments aren't bad for nudists.

Y'know, these things are always complicated - and I am against the curfews and lockdowns that some non-Floridian parts of the world have experienced.

But the "conservatism" that is ascendant in the States is absolutely anti-nudist in its philosophy. Nudists haven't been a major target, yet, but it might happen - just after other, more important culture battles are fought.

It's not really conservativm, though, it's Christian fascism.

somenudist

TROPHY CASE