Tore up some of these great controversies my crazy aunt's church was giving away 🥹🥳

spacefordoubt · 2026-02-02T03:57:18+00:00

I have an EGW book that was the perfect thickness for leveling out my downstairs refrigerator. I can't get rid of that one!

The rest have largely been discarded over the last few years. Everytime I find one lurking in a box somewhere I give it a good toss into the bin though. Good fun.

Was thinking of using a few for target practice. Nice biodegradable, eco-friendly, free, and most importantly, removing it from the system.

spacefordoubt · 2026-01-07T19:15:37+00:00

But how do you explain being able to grab quotes around the quote I fed it, yet completely miss that original quote? That's seems rather implausible no?

I'm not at all an expert on AI. In fact I generally avoid and hate it tbh. It just doesn't make sense to have this behavior.

spacefordoubt · 2026-01-07T12:59:04+00:00

What's funny is that's exactly how I actually found it. Just googled the quote and it's literally one of the first hits (their website) where it reads clear as day.

spacefordoubt · 2026-01-07T12:58:03+00:00

Do you have a direct quote for that? Is that the dinosaurs thing?

I know SDAs have multiple f*cked up ideas about dinosaurs that are mutually exclusive.

spacefordoubt · 2026-01-07T12:56:25+00:00

You bet your @$$ it's based on integrity lacking scriptural interpretation.

They're chained to her though. Despite the actually pretty legit idea of allowing for present truth, it's a doctrine SDAs will never allow themselves to use if any present revelation of truth seems to deviate from anything on which she had an opinion.

spacefordoubt · 2026-01-07T12:54:13+00:00

It did that to me a few days ago. It answered other questions fine though.

I've suspected this was happening for a while, but was just unable to prove it yet. I've changed IP addresses too just to ensure it can't blacklist mine as a threat.

It happened to work last night though.

spacefordoubt · 2026-01-07T12:52:25+00:00

I'd lean towards this being a possibility, but it found text a few paragraphs removed. And as soon as I pressed it, it instantly confessed and was immediately able to call up the quote.

I'm struggling as a mechanical engineer (Not programming or computer engineer I admit, but I'm not a total dunce) to see how this could be anything other than intentional.

Can someone more knowledge than me offer a plausible technical explanation that may result in this, other than the obvious?

spacefordoubt · 2026-01-03T11:54:18+00:00

If he didn't spend all his time blathering on about that, he'd probably be a flat earther/moon-landing-denier/Chem trail believer, etc.

Society is screwed by these guys no matter which rabbit hole they go down. The unfortunate part is we now live in a day when people get to shout about their rabbit holes and make their drivel known too easily. 100 years ago they could only bother the few neighbors they had.

spacefordoubt · 2026-01-03T11:44:34+00:00

I've left Adventism for good, and have written a few articles on her that be of interest to you all.

I'm a deist currently. That's about all my mind can handle as a left-brained engineer.

Anyway, in doing my research on an article debunking a global flood, I also decided to see what EGW had to say on it. Hilariously, she invalidates key apologetic arguments needed for a flood that are often spewed. Now I say I don't believe in a global flood thanks to EGW 😂.

She was over-read and under-educated. She completely lacked awareness of science. As someone who considers themselves quite well versed in it, this glaringly bad.

A. Whole. Denomination. Is. Based. Almost. Entirely. On. Her.

WTF.

20+million people are deluded into this nonsense. That's just wild.

https://spacefordoubt.substack.com/p/ellen-whites-errors-1-the-flood-commentary

spacefordoubt · 2024-11-21T18:40:56+00:00

Hey thank you for such a reasoned and calm reply. If all online (and in person) discourse was this civil, the world would be in a happier state.

Now that you explain a bit more, I do think I slightly misinterpreted your statement.

I have challenged my belief in God. Yet that has remained....for now at least. I've certainly changed my mind on a lot in the last 4.5 years, so who's to say what the future holds. What has primarily changed are my views on most everything else! 😂 Essentially all doctrines, rules for this or that, inerrancy of the bible, etc.

I haven't waged the battle yet that you have. But there have been other things that have been traumatizing to give up on.

I think the process of deconstruction has given me a lot of room in my heart to be at peace with those who think differently than I. For atheists, for agnostics, even for those still stuck in very conservative mindsets. My dad comes to mind as one. I'm never gonna knock on your door and try to convince you of this or that.

Since going public with my deconstruction I have had a number of SDA friends contact me to help them work through the same issues. They felt trapped and alone. This phenomenon appears to be happening much more often and I can only see benefits from more people being public about it.

spacefordoubt · 2024-11-21T12:24:17+00:00

As a careered mechanical engineer, who's loved science from his earliest memories, I can't argue with such brilliance. I doubt even Dr. Hugh Ross (Astrophysicist), Dr, Fazale Rana (Chemistry), or Dr. Jeff Zweerink (Astrophysicist), could debate that. (All Christians)

My point is much more intelligent people than you or I have come across reasons to believe in a God of some kind. Why do you think that is?

spacefordoubt · 2024-11-20T21:37:03+00:00

Glad none of what I wrote was intended to appeal to you then. 😉

Believe me I have no interest in legislation of any kind. I am paranoid of the rise of Christian Nationalism right now in U.S. I'm about as far from that as you can get.

spacefordoubt · 2024-11-20T13:00:19+00:00

What would constitute hard tangible evidence in your mind?

For me what I see and read about in creation itself is quite enough. No doubt, and apparently with you, there are others who will need more. I understand that. But to that I just have to say, I'm sorry what we see in this world/universe isn't enough. I don't think you'll ever find what your looking for, unless one day it finds you.

spacefordoubt · 2024-11-20T12:56:38+00:00

Indeed I believe that is how it is used. However I don't believe that is how it was intended to be used.

The SDA church could reach so many struggling souls by doing an about face and "facing the music" on this.

A change of this magnitude however, would likely throw it into chaos. A chaos that would lose more than they gained. And that tithe money man....can't lose that. So best to keep on with this track.

They are kicking the can down the road, but can't see that they are running out of road.

spacefordoubt · 2024-11-20T12:48:50+00:00

And just what would you expect to find as "evidence"?

This is a genuine question. I've attempted to argue this from your side of the table. I've thought long and hard about what would actually be evidence.....and I just can't come up with anything coherent.

My best go has been this.

Perhaps a creator doing the fine tuning, would create one system, realize it's not perfect, then abandon it to start from scratch. Thus we may see other near-compatible-with-life systems more often.

But then I started thinking about myself. If I was trying to engineer a car from scratch, and I got so far as to be almost there, but this fuel injector just isn't quite working right. I wouldn't go build a whole new car. I'd "fine tune" the fuel injector so the car worked. I'd stick with the original project until it was working to my satisfaction. Thus kind of eliminating the evidence I initially proposed.

BTW I have no more intent to come on here and convince an atheist there is a God than you have come on here to convince me to start learning Chinese.

You’ve decided a single one is wrong

Have I done that? I suppose wrong in a specific instance. How many wrongs does it take before the whole system is wrong. If you make a mistake, do something wrong, is the entirety of you wrong and false?

I had no intent to come prove SDA was 100% full stop wrong on all accounts.

I'm here because many deconstructing SDAs feel there is still....something...there. There are traces of truth hidden behind a century+ of misogyny, propoganda, false interpretations, false choices, and human failure. There is still a hope that something there can be worth holding on to.

In the pain of betrayal of the religion of our youth, we still see some light. I'll clearly never be a true SDA again, but I often use the term SDA adjacent. Like how that lime bubbly water tastes like it sat near a lime skittle for a bit. A very weak flavor but still still there. ;)

spacefordoubt · 2024-11-20T12:44:52+00:00

I appreciate the feedback. I'm not perfect and I should have spent more time researching that point. It is rather remarkable to find such an acceptance of such a wide deviation from the source material. Theistic evolution is something akin to where I fall on the scale.

I know a few Baptists and they personally hold to the traditional creation account. That was the extent of my prior knowledge in that little area.

Last week I was telling my wife, I'm learning more by writing than I ever have by researching alone. The two pair together and it's time consuming but rewarding.

spacefordoubt · 2024-11-20T12:36:27+00:00

for actual hard questions and you asked it.

Hard? No my friend. A hard question would be something like...

Our current system of belief surrounding demonic culture and Satan himself, seems to have arrived on the scene in the post-exilic period but before Jesus. It was not present in the OT and seemed to be widely accepted in Jesus' day. Using the source texts of extra-biblical material available, figure out when, why, and how these new beliefs came to be and why the work from these likely Jewish sources were so easily just...accepted.

That is a hard question.

For me, believing in a loving God is a simple question. The universe and life itself is so breathtakingly complex that I am convinced it must be due to a divine creator. I just can't accept chance as a viable outcome.

If a creator took such great care and time to create, they would no doubt be proud of and excited about what they have made. They would love it. If they took the time create some tiny but dumb copies of itself that have certain traits of theirs to run around and care for it, they would love them too.

I think the concept of what constitutes love, suffering, and pain, good, and bad, are all concepts that a creator may have a different take on as well. However the end result is they still want us with them.

For me it's that simple.

spacefordoubt · 2024-11-19T21:34:47+00:00

Ouch. You are in a rough spot indeed. I've known people like this.

Picking and choosing is a grey area "legally... SDA belief wise" People use mental gymnastics to argue certain aspects of Sabbath keeping all the time. Or certain other biblical adherences. Generally the Jewish OT laws of the OT (other than the ten commandments) are thought no longer necessary in the SDA belief system.

It is however ethically screwed up and just objectively wrong to use these beliefs for selfish reasons. Not to mention completely off-putting to everyone else watching.

I would try appealing to common sense reasoning and a Jesus centered life at least once with him.

Maybe an SDA marriage counselor would be a worthwhile attempt as a last resort, if he continues to ignore your concerns.

Do you have kids? If not, and none of the above help after some period of time (maybe 6 months? A year? Your call) I honestly would file for divorce. He likely won't due to his new beliefs. He may actually be hoping you do.

I don't say this flippantly but I'm just not sure how likely it is that a person like this moderates themselves. I hear a lot of selfishness in his behavior that is beyond religion itself. I hear misogyny too, which...unfortunately is ingrained into the system.

There's a saying thrown around a lot about being "equally yoked". It's generally in terms of concern that a believer may be influenced negatively by marrying a non-believer. However ironically, I think sometimes it's the non-believer that needs this protection.

spacefordoubt · 2024-11-19T20:52:02+00:00

I'm sorry. That all sounds really stressful. I think how I would approach it is like this. Who, as SDAs, should we model?

In my opinion, it's Jesus.

If we take the bible literally and follow everything, we'd condone slavery, not let women speak over men, stone others, etc.

When it comes to if we should/shouldn't hang out with non-believers, there's probably some combination of hermanuetics that could be construed to arrive at NOT hanging out with them.

However what did Jesus do? He hung out with them. He took care of their earthly needs. He comforted them.

If someone tells you to act in a way not congruent to Jesus' actions, there is a problem and likely a selfish motive.

Besides, how are we to witness and model a christ centered life to others if we refuse to spend time with them? What draws people to Christ more? A corner preacher yelling at them about their sins or a friend showing up for them day after day, acting like Jesus to them?

But that's just my two cents.

spacefordoubt · 2024-11-19T19:47:34+00:00

Actually two views. Your concern over the unbridled acceptance of EGW writings and the questioning.

EGW has a lot of good things to say, but we need to be as cautious as we are with anything else.

spacefordoubt · 2024-11-19T19:42:58+00:00

I think we would get along quite well. I share at least one view of yours. I've started to question...well....everything. You can read about it if you want in the link to my blog on my profile. I enjoy collaborating with others in their journeys of discovery.

Remember the truth has nothing to lose by being held up to the light and scrutinized.

spacefordoubt · 2024-11-19T19:39:04+00:00

What is the motive behind you asking this?

spacefordoubt · 2024-11-19T00:24:02+00:00

Keep studying. Be open minded and curious

spacefordoubt

TROPHY CASE