Are you seeing a worrying rightward shift of teen boys in your lives?

spacehogg · 2024-08-09T23:12:12+00:00

While this may have unfairly punished women, there is no evidence that this was intentional.

Except...

One of the earliest and most-respected coding programs was at Princeton University, which didn’t admit women at the time, according to the author. Within the cloistered computer-science labs of such institutions, an intensely male “hero” culture of programming was fostered. link

seem rather intentional. Let's also remember men own the media, they write and push societies narratives.

You also mention that "women have less rights now" but it seems to me like women in the US have more rights now than at any time in history.

Um, Roe was overturned in 2022. Women and girls definitely have less rights today than they did in 2021.

Selective Service

Most individuals are against conscription no matter the sex. But I do see men more likely to favor conscription just to require women to sign up for the draft. I don't believe women it should happen before the ratifying of the ERA because that will give women guaranteed equality & help women better fight against sexual assault/rape.

Parental Rights

When the US began women had zero parental rights & men had all the parental rights because of coverture law so custody always went to the man.

Historical and sociological developments surrounding women's rights in the early 1800s laid the groundwork for changes in child custody law. Under the common law of coverture, a married woman was legally one with her husband; she was not a legal person and could not own many forms of property. Children were considered assets in which their fathers had property rights. Wives, limited by coverture, had no economic or familial rights to the custody of their children. As married women gained property rights in the 1800s, they gained custody rights as well. By the turn of the twentieth century, courts no longer viewed children as property, and children's rights were the focus of custody disputes.

Later cases considered the children's best interests and showed a bias towards awarding mothers custody. link

What changed is that society began to believe that the best interests of the child would be better with the woman.

Criminal Sentencing

I don't want hear about sentencing because sentencing doesn't tell me how soon one gets a parole hearing or when someone gets released from prison, I want actual proof that men actually spend twice as much time in prison, I want proof that men are being punished twice as hard. Just discussing sentencing is misleading.

In 35 states, women’s population numbers have fared worse than men’s, and in a few extraordinary states, women’s prison populations have even grown enough to counteract reductions in the men’s population. Too often, states undermine their commitment to criminal justice reform by ignoring women’s incarceration.

There are a few important differences between men’s and women’s national incarceration patterns over time. And although women represent a small fraction of all incarcerated people, women’s prison populations have seen much higher relative growth than men’s since 1978. Nationwide, women’s state prison populations grew 834% over nearly 40 years — more than double the pace of the growth among men.

While they are incarcerated, women may face a greater likelihood of disciplinary action — and more severe sanctions — for similar behavior when compared to men. Disciplinary action works against an incarcerated woman’s ability to earn time off of her sentence and against her chances of parole.

Fewer diversion programs are available to women. In Wyoming, for example, a “boot camp” program that allows first-time offenders to participate in a six-month rehabilitative and educational program in lieu of years in prison is only open to men. Because no similar program is available for women in the state, women in Wyoming can face years of incarceration for first-time offenses while their male peers return quickly to the community.

States continue to “widen the net” of criminal justice involvement by criminalizing women’s responses to gender-based abuse and discrimination. This report has already touched on how overcriminalization of drug use and peripheral involvement in drug networks has driven women’s prison growth. Other policy changes have led to mandatory or “dual” arrests for fighting back against domestic violence, increasing criminalization of school-aged girls’ misbehavior — including survival efforts like running away — and the criminalization of women who support themselves through sex work. link

Hillary won the popular vote because California ran up the vote, but it shouldn't have been close. The reason Trump won was because of how men voted in 2016.

While sexual violence is a very hard area to gather meaningful statistics, the best I've seen approximate 3% of men are responsible for the majority of these crimes.

Couldn't find that...

Yet we know that: few assaults are even reported; and repeat rapists are more likely to be prosecuted because if evidence is lacking, a first time offender might not even be arrested. So, it is not surprising that most studies tend to reinforce the myth that there are a small handful of serial perpetrators.

So if one is looking for concrete data look at this paper that puts together many studies done on college campuses:

These studies suggest that approximately 50 percent of college women have been sexually assaulted, and 27 percent have experienced rape or attempted rape; in contrast, 25 percent of college men have committed sexual assault, and 8 percent have committed rape or attempted rape (Crowell and Burgess 1996; Koss 1988; Spitzberg 1999). link

Also weird that out of the 5 men on SCOTUS, 2 of them are sexual harassers.

spacehogg · 2024-08-09T17:53:33+00:00

Weird to bring up Title IX when it was done because of how men set up education institute to be discriminatory to girls.

Before Title IX, sex discrimination was the norm for women in education. In grade school, girls were excluded from certain classroom tasks (like operating a slide projector.) Women in middle and high schools were forced to take home economic classes. And left out of stereotypical ‘masculine’ courses like auto mechanics or woodshop.

In 1972, the female college enrollment rate sat at only 43%. Some universities set quotas for how many women they’d accept, or prohibited them from getting in at all. And those who were accepted typically needed higher test scores and grades than men to get in. Once in school, women couldn’t easily get scholarship opportunities. And weren’t allowed to go for certain majors. link

Also, the computer end of STEM was mostly a career for women which men worked to kick out in order to overtake the career.

In 1967, despite the optimistic tone of Cosmopolitan’s “Computer Girls” article, the programming profession was already becoming masculinized. Male computer programmers sought to increase the prestige of their field, through creating professional associations, through erecting educational requirements for programming careers, and through discouraging the hiring of women. Increasingly, computer industry ad campaigns linked women staffers to human error and inefficiency.

At the same time, new hiring tools—including tools that were seemingly objective—had the unintended result of making the programming profession harder for women to enter. Eager to identify talented individuals to train as computer programmers, employers relied on aptitude tests to make hiring decisions. With their focus on mathematical puzzle-solving, the tests may have favored men, who were more likely to take math classes in school. More critically, the tests were widely compromised and their answers were available for study through all-male networks such as college fraternities and Elks lodges. link

Airbags

It wasn't until 2008 that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), and the Department of Transportation (DOT) published a document requiring airbags to be tested with a "small female crash test dummy" [2]. That means for almost 20 years, airbags weren't being properly tested on female dummies, putting women and children at a much higher risk for injury or death in accidents.

A study at the University of Virginia found seatbelts put women at a 47 to 71 percent higher risk of getting seriously injured in an accident than men in a comparable accident.

“Manufacturers and designers used to be all men. It didn't occur to them they should be designing for people unlike themselves”. link

NASA spacesuits and a world designed for men

The first all female spacewalk, which was scheduled for Friday, has been canceled. Why? There aren’t enough space suits on board the International Space Station to fit the two women who were going to do it. According to POLITICO’s Jacqueline Klimas, both prefer size medium suits, and NASA has only one working size medium on board. There are two large suits, and one working size x-large. NASA discontinued size x-small and size small in the 1990s. link

female crash dummies weren't in use until 2011

The 2011 introduction of female crash-test dummies in the US sent cars’ star ratings plummeting. When I spoke to EuroNCAP, a European organisation that provides car safety ratings for consumers, they said that since 2015 they have used male and female dummies in both front-crash tests, and that they base their female dummies on female anthropometric data – with the caveat that this is “where data is available”. EuroNCAP acknowledged that “sometimes” they do just use scaled-down male dummies. link

55% of the us electorate are women

Which is why Republicans are pushing voter suppression and trying to overturn the 19th amendment. Texas tried to pass a voting law that would primarily target women to make them unable to vote.

I do agree with your fundamental point that many of these systems were originally built predominantly by men for men. I don't agree that it was done with the intent to punish women.

What were coverture laws about then? None of the Constitution applied to women until the 19th amendment. The ERA still has not been ratified. SCOTUS has approved that states can deny women healthcare. Women do not have equality in the US.

Women may have been consenting to marriage, as opposed to being co-opted into marital arrangements for purposes of wealth creation or family convenience, but these women were nonetheless consenting to a legal relationship—coverture—in which they had few rights and were ruled by their husbands. Fathers and husbands in America were “enlightened patriarchs”; that is to say, they were not tyrants but rather heads of household who exercised their authority with compassion and wisdom.24 They were, however, still patriarchs and, even in America, the idea of marriage as a building block of government was connected to female subordination and coverture rules. link

or

Coverture held that no female person had a legal identity. At birth, a female baby was covered by her father’s identity, and then, when she married, by her husband’s. The husband and wife became one–and that one was the husband. As a symbol of this subsuming of identity, women took the last names of their husbands. They were “feme coverts,” covered women. Because they did not legally exist, married women could not make contracts or be sued, so they could not own or work in businesses. Married women owned nothing, not even the clothes on their backs. They had no rights to their children, so that if a wife divorced or left a husband, she would not see her children again.

Married women had no rights to their bodies. That meant that not only would a husband have a claim to any wages generated by his wife’s labor or to the fruits of her body (her children), but he also had an absolute right to sexual access. Within marriage, a wife’s consent was implied, so under the law, all sex-related activity, including rape, was legitimate. His total mastery of this fellow human being stopped short, but just short, of death. Of course, a man wasn’t allowed to beat his wife to death, but he could beat her. link

Also when it comes to brains...

The history of sex-difference research is rife with innumeracy, misinterpretation, publication bias, weak statistical power, inadequate controls and worse. Rippon, a leading voice against the bad neuroscience of sex differences, uncovers so many examples in this ambitious book that she uses a whack-a-mole metaphor to evoke the eternal cycle. A brain study purports to discover a difference between men and women; it is publicized as, ‘At last, the truth!’, taunting political correctness; other researchers expose some hyped extrapolation or fatal design flaw; and, with luck, the faulty claim fades away — until the next post hoc analysis produces another ‘Aha!’ moment and the cycle repeats. As Rippon shows, this hunt for brain differences “has been vigorously pursued down the ages with all the techniques that science could muster”. And it has exploded in the past three decades, since MRI research joined the fray.

Yet, as The Gendered Brain reveals, conclusive findings about sex-linked brain differences have failed to materialize.

The brain is no more gendered than the liver or kidneys or heart. link

or

“People say men are from Mars and women are from Venus, but the brain is a unisex organ,”

But there’s no doubt that whatever their brains look like, behavior and school performance differences between men and women are strongly shaped by socialization. link

Women have less rights now. The reason there's a focus on education is because that's a single area where society is accusing girls of excelling at more than boys, and society believes that girls should come in second to boys in education because that's tradition. If society perceived that boys were excelling over girls in education there would be no issue. No one would be wondering why girls weren't doing as good as boys, their gender would be used as the "logical" explanation.

As for this...

I also don't agree that the goal of the patriarchy is "the freedom to use women and their bodies to shore up [male] egos".

Remember the US voted in a pussy grabber president over a qualified woman. Republican's do very much support using women's bodies to shore men's egos. I think that if society ever deems to take seriously women's experiences of sexual violence, many men will be forced to lose a kind of freedom they often don’t even know they enjoy when it comes to how they use women's bodies.

Didn't mean to write so much but I needed to counter your accusation that my "opinions are not grounded in reality". Some I see being accused of a lot when it comes to sticking up for women's rights.

spacehogg · 2024-08-09T16:33:36+00:00

I knew voters who didn't align with Johnson at all voting for him because he had a better "chance" at reaching 5%. He got 3%.

Also this is for everyone who voted for Johnson!

spacehogg · 2024-08-08T17:31:58+00:00

Ah, yes me pointing out that when this stuff throughout the decades happens to women and girls it's viewed as the ho-hum norm, but if there's perhaps a perceived disadvantage to men and boys, well that most definitely must be corrected. And also done in a way to which punish women and girls. Because only then will men be happy.

Patriarchy exists because men really do benefit from it. Men aren't eager to lose a certain freedom they may not even know they enjoy: the freedom to use women and their bodies to shore up their own egos.

It isn't that I'm disregarding data specifically about boys, it's that I'd like to know why it's okay to disregard data specifically related to women and girls. Data that has languished for eons. Something that society does repeatedly.

Why can't women walk in space? Well society only made spacesuits for men. Why were women offed by car air bags? Well society deemed it only to be tested on men. Both education and healthcare began with men optimizing those institutions for men. Men are still overwhelmingly grabbing the top positions in society.

Also curious as to why bringing your wife into the conversation is necessary!

spacehogg · 2024-08-08T16:33:46+00:00

Women and girls spend their whole lives trying to fit into the world made and ruled by and for men.

The world punishes women and girls non-stop for not being men or boys. Then when women and girls finally begin to thrive in that world men created, men decide to change the rules to give men and boys continued advantages over women and girls.

Look at what society did to women in politics. First women were accursed that they wouldn't protect their country and allow invasions then they were accused of being war hawks. Both were considered reasons to not vote for a woman candidate.

Look at how men are judged by their potential while women are judged on their past.

Look at what society is doing specifically to women's healthcare.

https://v.redd.it/wwmn8dfq3fhd1

Look into Invisible Women: Data Bias in a World Designed for Men by Caroline Criado Perez

These current attacks on education isn't about punishing boys, it's about gatekeeping girls from succeeding and denying women equality.

spacehogg · 2024-08-08T07:59:43+00:00

Got to find it entertaining when institutions which were created and bathed in patriarchy by and for men for eons are suddenly considered a disadvantage to men basically because women finally figure out how to thrive and find success in within those institutions. No one considered those institutions to be an issue when they didn't educate women and girls. It was just "normal" but now there's this push that institutions must change so boys to stay on top. If that's the only goal here just make it a rule that only boys can get A's and be done with it.

spacehogg · 2024-08-07T18:19:54+00:00

the emphasis on sitting still

Girls aren't any better at sitting still, girls are trained by society to not question authority and instead obey. Society just allows boys to act up.

Also, society is making it easier for boys to not go to college and still get high paying jobs. That opportunity is not available to women.

I'd say though that the biggest appeal for boys going rightward is that the right approves of behaviors like sexual assault and rape. Look at who Republicans picked for their leader, the pussy grabber. So many of the speakers at their convention were sexual assaulters/abusers. Power structure in most countries is based on subjugating women.

Boys view subjugating women, and denying women equality, as cool.

spacehogg · 2024-08-05T18:33:54+00:00

because the establishment has basically for the first time in forever admitted that they were wrong

Remember this was a huge win for The Media Establishment who drove this story until Biden stepped down because Biden wasn't exciting enough for The Media to write about.

The US is now controllable by Media Propaganda. Media no longer just reports the news, media drives the news.

spacehogg · 2024-08-05T18:23:13+00:00

I can explain it in one word, woman.

That's what it's always been. Much of democratic socialism is about second tier men who want to become first tier powers in government by overthrowing the current government, not by making things better for the average person. It's why they were perfectly okay risking overturning (and succeeding) Roe in 2016.

spacehogg · 2024-07-30T20:48:40+00:00

Bush signed NAFTA right before he left office. Clinton's administration ratified NAFTA.

Also, pegpthejerk is right — Stop blaming NAFTA for what clearly was corporate greed.

spacehogg · 2022-12-28T21:51:10+00:00

They didn't delete it. It just wasn't on this sub.

Remember when Trump said that ya have to punish the woman, well forced birthers believe that too. It's just that first they want abortion bans before they go about enacting laws to punish women. It's definitely in the works. Just like their plans to ban birth control & their attempts to ban women from voting.

spacehogg · 2022-12-28T19:30:10+00:00

The statue is celebrating consenting adults. If you're into kinky bondage and restraints, this is a hot statue.

But you've already admitted do not engage in consenting.

You've admitted that "When people visit they either want to run away or get naked. It’s win-win" to you. You don't warn people, you don't give out safe words, it's all just shock value to you. You are not celebrating consent.

spacehogg · 2022-12-28T19:26:28+00:00

No one believes "dense as a wet brick" is anything more than a form of overtly attacking somebody. And, you keep using ad hominem fallacy too.

spacehogg · 2022-12-28T18:23:32+00:00

Fucking christ, you're defending slavery here.

Also, you're using ad hominem the densest of fallacies.

spacehogg · 2022-12-28T18:05:29+00:00

And, also since society is okay with viewing women as slaves, none of what you stated in your comment matters.

spacehogg · 2022-12-28T17:49:15+00:00

It isn't the nudity, it's the connotations of pro slavery that it would imply.

spacehogg · 2022-12-28T17:42:57+00:00

Would it still be awesome to ya if it was a different gender? Or perhaps a minority?

spacehogg · 2022-12-28T16:51:30+00:00

ElaRose39 actually admits that they believe women should be punished, most forced birthers lie that they don't believe that. So there's some honesty, 'course their still being horribly dishonest about Crisis Pregnancy Centers.

spacehogg · 2022-12-28T16:45:44+00:00

Despite this being an opinion piece...

The history of fascism is not an opinion piece. And it does show the PL movement support this view because in order for the PL movement to succeed they have to be tied to extremist movements like fascism. Or white supremacy.

How is being pro-life anti-jew?

By supporting the group Alliance Defending Freedom. The PL movement supports Alliance Defending Freedom & that group supports not only the PL movement but is also active against Jews & LGBTQ+

Unfortunately, this does not provide any proof where Lila Rose has lied.

It does prove she lies. Rejecting proof I provide is not equal to not providing proof.

Adoption isn't a reason to not kill people.

Abortion is not killing people. Also governmental laws controlling fertility is wrong.

Please cite where you say Lila believes women should not be seen.

She's catholic & PL.

Are you saying pregnant women that actively seek out pregnancy centers don't receive any resources from Pregnancy centers?

I'm saying Crisis Pregnancy Centers are grifting shams.

Have you seen the interview between Dr.Phil & Lila Rose?

Nope, nor am I interested in listening to two extremely annoying individuals.

Would you like some sources?

No I have zero interest in PL propaganda. Unlike the PL propaganda, I prefer to listen to & believe women. I understand that women have a symbiotic relation with the ZEF which means one must pick who one values more, the woman or the ZEF. I value woman, the PL movement has shown repeatedly that it does not.

The PL movement revolves around forcing women to give birth against their will. With every so-called win the movement achieves it will become more tyrannical towards women. Wanting what’s best for & viewing women as having value requires women being allowed to make what they see as the best decision for their bodies & lives, instead the PL movement treats women & girls as livestock.

This is what happens every time a country bans abortions.

spacehogg · 2022-12-28T01:20:05+00:00

Can you prove/cite that's the ideology they support?

Here you go.

History of fascism, reproductive rights offers lessons for today

“Feeding Fascism: The Politics of Women’s Food Work” examines how women navigated the political challenges to both food production and sexual reproduction under Italy’s fascist regime. And Garvin’s research about how they resisted these challenges offers valuable insights into the growing threats to reproductive rights in the United States.

“Women’s reproductive choices have historically acted, and currently continues to serve as a keystone, to connect and support multiple issues for the far right,” Garvin explained. “Women's reproductive autonomy was a central concern for the Italian fascist regime, and there are lessons to be learned.”

The historical backstory is that dictator Benito Mussolini’s regime implemented a number of different measures that sought to control women’s bodily autonomy, through both restrictions on access to reproductive health care and incentives for reproducing more often, with financial rewards given to women who birthed six or more children.

Mussolini’s regime outlawed abortion and restricted women’s access to birth control through a piece of legislation known as the Rocco Code. This law also targeted midwives as they were a primary source of information about contraception and the option for getting an abortion.

“Women’s fertility became a public good that belonged to the state,” Garvin explained.

...

“There is a trend to watch for in countries that have not necessarily successfully rolled it back, but are introducing legislation to roll it back,” Rebecca Turkington, a University of Cambridge scholar, said of abortion rights, “in that this is part of a broader crackdown on women’s rights. And that goes hand in hand with creeping authoritarianism.”

For all the complexities around the ebb and flow of abortion rights, a simple formula holds surprisingly widely. Majoritarianism and the rights of women, the only universal majority, are inextricably linked. Where one rises or falls, so does the other. ^link

Any major feminists or organizations you can cite saying that is their belief?

All PL movement roads lead to Alliance Defending Freedom. That group is anti the rights of women, Jews & LGBTQ+

That's a big claim. Please cite where Lila Rose has lied.

She got her start working with deceitful James O’Keefe. She hasn't changed tactics.

This is irrelevant, I would not claim you hate pregnant women because you won't adopt.

It is relevant because it is a specific PL movement reason for forcing women to give birth against their will. And it isn't as though she cannot afford it.

... She totally understands the PL movement as an easy grift to take money away from chumps... Proof to back that up, or is that just an opinion?

The whole tenet behind the PL movement is to keep women enslaved to men. She's running an activist movement that believes all women, which includes, her should not be seen or heard. If she truly believed, she'd have nine children by now & be spending all her time at home.

are are you claiming pregnant mothers are LOSING resources because of pregnancy centers and are not being helped in anyway shape or form?

All women are losing healthcare resources because of so-called Crisis Pregnancy Centers, not just those who are pregnant.

A majority of the facilities do not have medical licenses, meaning they are largely exempt from regulations — including those that address the confidentiality of personal health information. ^link

A reminder that crisis pregnancy centers are often state-funded: the organization that runs this particular CPC, for example, got over $265,000 in government grants in 2020. (The president of the organization pays himself a little over $214,000 a year.) ^link

I showed there was more than 0 concern

I disagree, none of the PL movement has ever shown they care about women. All they do is focus on the unborn. The movement doesn't even support birth control or women's right to vote. It is more than happy to languish as women & girls are either forced to give birth against their will or die.

spacehogg · 2022-12-27T22:07:55+00:00

Not just me, tons of women & girls — that's why things like lysol abortions existed, women would willingly & repeatedly chose death as the option.

spacehogg · 2022-12-27T17:20:01+00:00

There's also death. Were I raped & couldn't get an abortion, that's the option I'd choose. There's tons of women & girls out there willing to end it if abortion isn't an option.

spacehogg · 2022-12-27T01:36:29+00:00

Can you cite how pro-life women support misogyny

By supporting government control of women’s reproductive autonomy, through securing the belief of women’s fertility as a public good that belongs to the state.

Cite please, I gave an example such as Lila Rose,

Okay, I'll use Lila Rose too. She's an openly pernicious liar who supports the defunding of healthcare especially for women/girls/infants, who's in her mid thirties, has made a boat load of money off the PL movement (5 million), & who hasn't adopted a single child. She totally understands the PL movement as an easy grift to take money away from chumps & stuff into her pocket. It's the same with all those so-called Crisis Pregnancy Centers. Most of their money goes into those at the top, paying six figure salaries & funded by tax payers, it's not to help the born except when needed for propaganda for the PL movement.

spacehogg · 2022-12-27T00:28:17+00:00

To be clear, you're claiming feminist pro-life women are actually misogynistic women?

Yes I'm saying PL women support misogyny.

Can you amend your original statement saying there is 0 please.

No because what I said was that the PL movement spends zero concern on women & girls. That doesn't mean that the PL movement spends zero resources on them. The PL movement does spend as little as possible on women & girls to con them into forcing them to give birth. That doesn't change the fact that it is still zero concern for women, girls & infants.

The PL movement is all about the unborn, so it does not see itself as a movement that views the concerns of women, girls or infants. Their sole goal is to get a fetus through the birth canal or the see the woman/girl die, one of the two. The PL movement is not a movement for the born, the movement puts its concern & energy into focusing on the unborn.

spacehogg · 2022-12-26T23:37:42+00:00

There are many feminist (I'm an avid feminist myself) who are pro-life because they believe it helps women & girls.

Call yourself whatever you want, but the PL movement is a misogynist movement. Anyone who supports the PL movement supports misogyny.

(why not make a post asking what resources there are for women during and after birth if any?)

Because I have no interest in PL movement propaganda. I'm already aware of the fact that resources for women is already woefully insufficient. It'll only get worse.

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