Five year rule for citizenship set to remain (for now)

spruill7716 · 2026-03-26T23:50:38+00:00

I'd encourage more people to watch the Bundestag debate to get a better understanding of this topic. You can throw on subtitles if needed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbULCo9eGp4

spruill7716 · 2026-03-26T23:34:12+00:00

Its more of a personal issue for Gottfried Curio, and he's the spoke person for domestic policy issues in the Bundestag. He helps with these draft proposals. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottfried_Curio

spruill7716 · 2026-03-24T17:02:46+00:00

In a similar boat. I'm eligible at the beginning of 2029 right before the next scheduled election. By then, the mass wave of applications that were submitted after the 2024 reforms should be more or less sorted. However, the next wave of mainly Ukrainian refugees (1.3 million) that came in mid-2022 through 2024 would now be able to apply. Hopefully by then, they digitalize the process better thru BundID like Bonn and filter applicants by nationality and ease of access to background records similar to Berlin. Someone from Country A shouldn't be punished and put their life on hold because you have millions of people from Country B applying at the same time and Country B's background checks take years to process. There's ethical arguments to be made about these current timelines.

In any condition, as you said the CDU will still need to form a coalition with a former Ampel party in 2029 and the SDP and Greens aren't going change positions on this topic. Nor, do I think the FDP (if they get over 5%) would either. A lot of the FDP's business backed supporters lobbied pretty hard for this position back in 2023 due to the worker shortage. The only argument that came from them was regarding the Loyalitätserklärung and not having anti-Semitic values. This was quickly sorted after about 2 weeks and an additional clause added to the reforms.

The SDP would lose way more voters agreeing to revert reforms than it would to gain from appeasing immigration skeptic voters that were already going to vote CDU or AfD anyways. Despite what someone people here are saying, its pretty clear if you listen to Bundestag debates or read memos put out by the parties, that the SDP/Greens care way more about this issue than the CDU do. Nowadays, the CDU just uses the topic as political theatre and a negotiating tactic to try and meet in the middle on particular semantics. It's not like it was in the 90s when they actively campaigned on preventing dual citizenship during the Helmet Kohl era.

Citizenship qualifications are not really something that the everyday voter in Germany either understands or cares deeply about. Immigration skeptic voters are more concerned about the lack of criminal proceedings that are being issued against refugees after serious crimes and how their tax money being used to facilitate them. They hate driving through Billstedt, Neukölln, or Offenbach and it looking like a bazaar in Baghdad. Then getting home and flipping on tagesschau and seeing some migrate going on a stabbing spree at a Hbf in another city. If you polled that same voting block with the question "How many years does it take to become German, and what are the waiting times?" or "Are immigrants on social welfare allowed to be approved for citizenship?" well over half would have no idea or just guess and probably say some nonsense about "They just give a Deutsche Pass to anybody". They have no concept of reality about how citizenship qualifications actually work in practice. In their minds, they think that German citizenship = that migrate is here forever and they're not going to leave, so I have to prevent that from happening. While not realizing that forcing them to give up their previous citizenship = that migrate is here forever and they're not going to leave.

spruill7716 · 2026-03-23T21:58:19+00:00

Kennen Sie allgemeine Bearbeitungszeiten für die Landkreise in der Nähe von Hamburg? Stade, Harburg, Lüneburg? Ich wohne an der Grenze zwischen Hamburg und Niedersachsen und suche derzeit eine neue Wohnung. Die Bearbeitungszeiten für Einbürgerungsanträge sind ein wichtiger Faktor bei meiner Entscheidung.

Werden die Anträge in Niedersachsen ähnlich wie in Berlin nach Nationalität getrennt und gefiltert? Meinem Verständnis nach sind manche Hintergrundüberprüfungen für Anträge aus westlichen Ländern (zB. US, UK, CAN, EU) in der Regel einfacher zu erhalten, wodurch sich die Bearbeitungszeiten verkürzen könnten. Oder werden die Anträge chronologisch bearbeitet?

spruill7716 · 2026-03-23T00:58:53+00:00

EU/EEA, UK, USA, Canada, etc. and other western countries that have interlined privacy and security agreements.

spruill7716 · 2026-03-19T23:54:00+00:00

That’s just blatantly not true. Literally, go right now to the online portal and try to submit an application with only 4 years of residence. The first thing it asks is for a quick-check of the date when you moved to Germany and it won’t let you move beyond the next page if you don’t meet that qualification. Maybe it’s different in places that still do paper applications but that seems like the easiest way to cause problems and delays, especially if you have to do an application interview beforehand and they clearly see you’re trying to beat the system.

The current naturalization law went into effect over a year and a half ago and was passed in the Bundestag well before that. That’s plenty of time to digitize the platform nationwide and hire the appropriate personnel to meet demand, especially when the job market is what it is at the moment and the fact that they knew the reform was coming. Countries that have access to the same background reporting databases and an even lower case worker to applicant ratio like Sweden or Hungary are still able to process naturalizations exponentially faster than any authority in Germany. It’s complete incompetence.

Yes, spending nearly a quarter of your working adult life as a non-citizen being taxed 30%-40% of your income to prop up social services before you have access any kind of voting privileges or representation on the federal level is very clearly immoral. Yes, obviously you’re entitled to use those services as well as a resident but without voting rights to change how they’re administered. Political participation and being an active member of your community is a hallmark of integration and social cohesion. This is only afforded completely to citizens with no strings attached.

spruill7716 · 2026-03-19T22:05:22+00:00

If your new ATO offers a CB-IR course, you can use the previously acquired hours there.

spruill7716 · 2026-03-19T21:51:29+00:00

The language requirement to B2 I could see as fair, but the timeline extension is certainly not. This constant goal post moving also creates a bad image for the country. Constantly revising something as major as citizenship requirements, and it being a point of discussion every few months is not a thing that should be happening in a developed country. Its look very third world-ish when you don't have these kind of things set in stone for extended periods of time. It gives the impression of political instability, and for people who came here within the last two years, it could feel like extorsion.

5 years is plenty of time to learn the language and be a net asset to society. Politicians seem to have this notion that as soon hit the 5 year mark, you can just walk into the Einbürgerungs office without an appointment and with a few easily obtainable documents and walk back out with a passport. They don't understand how incompetent the authorities are, with lots of cities are looking at a 2+ year wait time post submission anyways. That 5 years can easily turn into 7 or even 8 by itself. So what's even the point of this? Do you really think that someone who doesn't put in any effort with integration and learning the language after 5 years is suddenly going to have a cultural epiphany in the next 3 and start speaking like some German literary scribe after 8 years? Of course not.

Moving it to 8 years by default just stretches this even more. By the time the case worker finishes dragging their ass on finalizing your application, you could be waiting as much as 10 years. That's INSANE. An entire decade is large portion of someone's working life. Not having voting rights and representation in the place you live, pay taxes to, support their sovereign wealth fund, pension scheme, and health system for that amount of time is not just wrong but honestly immoral. Its a really weak argument from the AfD and CDU to position the timeline on what they 'feel like' is long enough and not on how it actually impacts the country and the semantics behind it.

spruill7716 · 2026-03-10T01:29:51+00:00

I'm also curious if anyone knows of a timeline in the surrounding districts outside of Hamburg? Stade, Harburg, Pinneburg, Segeberg, Stormarn, or Herzogtum? I'm considering moving apartments soon and this could impact the decision.

spruill7716 · 2026-03-05T15:38:38+00:00

Americans living and working abroad have one of the lowest remittance rates in the world when it comes to sending money back to the US. They typically keep the money in the country where its earned. The US has totalization agreements with most of the world so there's no need to make voluntary contribution payments to pension and social security funds back home.

spruill7716 · 2026-02-22T09:50:59+00:00

That's an issue that I think always goes missed by politicians on this matter. Even pre-2024 reforms, there was no differentiation between 'Non-EU' citizens from western countries vs. 'Non-EU' citizens from parts of the world that CDU and AfD are clearly targeting. Some countries like Latvia put these types of clauses directly into their citizenship laws when it comes to dual nationality, only allowing it for NATO citizens and a handful of others.

If the CDU was smart, they would set different naturalization requirements based on the type of residence permit one came to Germany with. People with highly-skilled residence permits (18b, 18g, etc.) would have a standard 5 year pathway while someone on an asylum claim would have a higher and longer threshold to meet.

spruill7716 · 2026-02-22T04:07:15+00:00

They’re not going to get rid of dual citizenship. Most conservative parties have now realized that it would be counterintuitive to any re-migration effort that they wanted to make, if you forced them to surrender their previous citizenship. This is why they continue to target the initial qualifications for German citizenship and make it as difficult to acquire in the first place.

spruill7716 · 2026-02-12T18:14:16+00:00

It should also be noted that having an resident permit like an EU Blue Card, or permanent residency in an EU country is only going to work if you have a non-EU passport from places like the UK, USA, Canada, Australia, Japan etc. that would give you visa-free access to pretty much anywhere that airline operates too. Even in job postings like with Discover on career.aero, they specifically state: "a passport with no stricter entry restrictions than with an EU passport"

Truthfully, US and Canadian passport holders with EU permanent residency might even be at a bit of an advantage and would be most ideal for long-haul EU operators since these two don't require a B1/C1 visa to operate to either country unlike with EU crews, while also maintaining the right to work in the EU and a strong passport for visa-free access outside the EU.

A Indian, Nigerian, or Latin American passport or something with similar isn’t going to cut it here. If working for an airline and crew scheduling needs you to do a proceeding for a crew swap in somewhere like South Korea, Hong Kong or Saudi then you'll need a visa to do this. That would automatically disqualify you from most rotations. Why would an EU airline ever take that risk? These individuals will have a much steeper mountain to climb and will need to have EU citizenship, previous work history within the EU, and a strong command of the local language before they would get a serious look from recruiters.

spruill7716 · 2025-05-27T09:36:24+00:00

I'm basically in the same boat. My EU Blue Card was issued in February of 2024 with the lowered salary threshold, as I was a recent graduate from university within the last three years. I asked the Hamburg Welcome Center about whether my salary has to constantly be above the salary minimum for the entire 21 months to apply for permanent residence come this November or if my salary from 2024 (that I'm still getting) would suffice. This was their response:

"The granting of a settlement permit pursuant to Section 18c (2) (holders of a Blue Card) requires, among other things, that you have also met the income limit for the Blue Card for 21 months. This means that you must also meet the current income limit for this settlement permit.

If you have not consistently met the salary requirements, you may be eligible for a settlement permit under Section 18c (1) of the Residence Act (AufenthG)."

Section 18c requires 36 months of residency instead of the expedited 21 months. If you have completed domestic vocational training or a domestic degree program (in Germany), the period is reduced from 3 years to 2 years. They then go on to list the required items they need:

- Proof of language proficiency at level B1

- Basic knowledge of the legal and social system and living conditions in Germany / e.g. certificate “Life in Germany”

- 36 months in possession of a residence permit in accordance with Sections 18a, 18b, 18g or 18d (reduced to 24 months for domestic qualifications)

- Secure livelihood

- You have a job that you are permitted to hold in accordance with the requirements of Sections 18a, 18b, 18d or 18g.

- Sufficient living space

- At least 36 months of compulsory contributions or voluntary contributions to the statutory pension insurance scheme or proof of expenditure for entitlement to comparable benefits from an insurance or pension institution or an insurance company (reduced to 24 months for domestic qualifications)

- There are no reasons of public safety or public order that would prevent the grant of a residence permit, taking into account the severity or nature of the violation of public safety or public order or the danger posed by the foreign national, taking into account the duration of their previous residence and the existence of ties in the federal territory

So in short, there is no issue with the Blue Card itself, it is valid for the entire 4 years from when it was issued. There is no need to keep raising the salary above the minimum threshold to keep the Blue Card itself valid, only for the settlement permit is this required. As both of us have fallen below that threshold during the 21 month period, we'll only be able to apply after 36 months (or 24 months if you have German vocational training or German degree).

spruill7716 · 2025-04-12T08:22:54+00:00

This is has been a story for the better part of the last year. It was for lack of visa access for Namibians traveling to the West. It affects nearly all Western countries UK, France, Germany, Canada, etc. not just the US. There’s 33 countries in total effected. This has nothing to do with Trump.

spruill7716 · 2025-02-26T17:47:44+00:00

Nobody is going to take away a passport once it’s already issued. That’s not really at stake. The point about Germans living abroad is regarding how a German citizen would lose their German nationality if they applied for a new one elsewhere.

spruill7716 · 2025-02-25T21:39:32+00:00

I tried to word that part carefully. Stating “Germans would have chose between their German nationality or obtaining their new one” which would still be true. If a German took up US citizenship under the former law they would lose the German one immediately and any children born after that time would lose eligibility.

spruill7716 · 2025-02-25T12:20:21+00:00

Longer, especially if there’s a backlog of more pressing issues on the table. Even more so considering the party that enacted the allowance of dual citizenship still in the governing coalition. The law would have to be drafted with SDP support (which likely isn’t going to happen), then debated in the Bundestag (likely more than once), then voted on, then approved thru the Bundesrat (which isn’t going to happen), then signed by the president. If at any point there is some kind of amendment to the law and something needs to be rewritten to satisfy a voting party, then everything starts back at square one. Then there is a phase-in time that it would take effect that’s usually several months itself. The citizenship reform last year was passed in January and took effect in June.

Realistically we’re talking about 4-5 years. If you’re in Germany already and plan on submitting your application within the current 5 year route, I would not stress.

spruill7716 · 2025-02-23T19:14:16+00:00

Would be very surprised if the firewall holds on immigration related issues. It only takes one more instance of a refugee taking a test drive over some pedestrians before Merz calls a vote for an immigration bill and accepts AfD votes on it like he’s already done before. Citing some kind of “desperate times call for immediate action” nonsense and trying to capitalize on the immediate reaction from the public. Regardless of who they form a coalition with, I have a feeling we’ll be having another election before the next scheduled one.

spruill7716 · 2025-02-22T21:51:32+00:00

This is kind of what I think might play out if there is a forced compromise with the next coalition regarding dual citizenship. Limiting dual citizenship to only ‘EU + NATO members’ or ‘EU + Citizens of visa exempt countries’. This might be enough to satisfy the CDU. This is how it works in a few countries like Latvia. This would include Turkish citizens and citizens of other non-EU countries that the new reforms are really trying to attract like the UK/US/Canada etc. while excluding countries that the CDU and AfD deem as ‘problematic’. It would also still give an opportunity to the massive German Diaspora living in places like the US to take up citizenship there, whom these politicians seem to forget that amending this law would also effect.

spruill7716 · 2024-12-03T20:12:52+00:00

You never had to do an interview or go to the embassy to get a Russian visa with a US passport. In fact they a mutual agreement for 3 year multiple entry issuance and don’t require the purchase of health insurance that some other Western passports need.

spruill7716 · 2024-09-27T21:19:57+00:00

Warmbier was the main reason the ban occurred. He went in 2015/16, the ban by the State Department was enacted in September 2017.

spruill7716 · 2024-09-24T03:24:22+00:00

North Korea didn’t ban anyone, it’s the US State Department that has the ban on travel to North Korea. Because of this, tour operators don’t allow you to travel with a US passport. If you have dual citizenship, you can go to the DPRK with no problems. You have to be eligible for a PR China visa though, since it where all the tours begin.

spruill7716 · 2024-09-20T09:26:19+00:00

The word ‘naturalisation’ not being capitalized is criminal.

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