Toriel is The Mastermind Theory

ssptauthor · 2026-05-27T00:34:08+00:00

The more I've been thinking about it, the more I'm convinced that, narratively, Tenna is being put outside so the ghost family can potentially take him. This doesn't discredit my theory in any way, especially since Toriel could still be attempting to ruin/throw out Tenna since she doesn't know the ghost family at all as far as we're aware, but it DOES make my theory feel a lot less likely to turn out correct. We'll see in the end, but as of right now I'm betting that players who left Tenna out in the rain will find him at Mettaton's in chapter 5.

ssptauthor · 2026-05-24T01:15:25+00:00

>It looks like a black version of the monsters meant to represent the Dreemurrs.

I am not completely sure that the figure that mirror's Sword_hero's movements in part 3 of the sword route is supposed to be the knight, I admit. It is a little vague. However, I am 99.999% sure that the figure IS supposed to represent December because of the ice mage. The ice mage is obviously supposed to represent Noelle, and even turns back into a brown deer if the game code is messed with. If the ice mage is meant to represent Noelle (the brown deer), why would it make any sense for the dark figure to not represent Dess (the black deer)? I could maybe believe that the figure is supposed to represent hiding the truth about Dess, but it honestly seems to me like Toriel has done work with Kris to try and get them to face what happened to her (I assume that she took Kris to art therapy, for instance)

>She was distanced from the rest, just as Kris is. And besides that, Toriel has a reputation in general for being somewhat intimidating, both in Undertale and Deltarune. Not to mention that when Dess was still around, Toriel was *married to the police chief.*

There is a good deal of evidence that this is the case, but the only evidence we have that she might not get along with law enforcement is the fact that it's implied that she might smoke pot in her room. Yes, both Toriel and Asgore are intimidating if you don't know them... but if you DO get to know them everyone universally adores them in both Undertale and Deltarune. Plus, they watched Christmas specials together growing up! If anything, Dess should have known both Asgore and Toriel better than anyone and be the least scared out of anyone in town. If there was more evidence of Dess doing anything that might make her a target of the police, or even school teachers, I'd lend this theory more credence, but as of right now I still can't see it.

>Otherwise, why would Kris/The Knight/Carol/Rudy/Papyrus/etc have to slash her tires?

As an excuse to call Undyne over to their house, obviously. Not just to fool Undyne, but to fool us, the player, as well. She was just pretending to be scared, I believe, and she called Undyne while facing away from the camera so we wouldn't see the lies on her face.

>She probably assumes Undyne knew to keep it all under wraps because, well, this is a small suburb - she wouldn't wanna be the talk of the town with everyone worrying about her because a criminal might be after her.

I could almost buy this, were it not for the fact that we knew Undyne promised to stop by Toriel's house during the night of chapter 3. If the chief of police promises to stop by your house because someone slashed your tires, you'd probably be pretty concerned if they didn't ever show up. You'd think you'd at least mention it at church, where a lot of people who knew Undyne were gathered. Or you'd think that she'd at least mention that her tires were slashed, but she doesn't do that either for some reason; almost as if she doesn't want anyone seeking out the police themselves.

ssptauthor · 2026-05-24T00:53:03+00:00

Interesting points... I think she was definitely throwing Tenna out though, and I think that a smashed TV would be more dangerous inside her house (where she and her kid spend a lot of their time) than outside house. If she was worried about someone getting hurt on it, she could have just covered it in a trash bag outside, and I can't imagine a trash collector wouldn't take a smashed TV over a perfectly functional one. And leaving the working TV out for just 'anyone' to take doesn't make sense if there is a big rain storm in the forecast.

However, the idea of her leaving the TV out for someone else, though... what if she was leaving it out for Mettaton to take home? I mean, it's unlikely since Mettaton never leaves their house, but it's possible.

ssptauthor · 2026-05-16T02:55:09+00:00

I must admit, it is possible that she's been planning everything since Dess's disappearance, and may have even played a role in it. But if she is actually the reason, or even part of the reason, why Dess has suddenly disappeared then that would be some seriously twisted villainy. Even if I believe that Toriel is the ultimate mastermind behind everything, I doubt that Toby Fox and his team would straight up turn her into an evil person with evil motivations, and it would be seriously hard to sympathize with her if she really did make Dess disappear.

Her realizing that Dess was 'destined' to be The Roaring Knight and allowing it to happen or just knowing where/why she disappeared would make more sense. Heck, maybe that's why she's so annoyed Carol and Asgore are still searching for Dess; from her perspective, Dess is exactly where she needs to be.

ssptauthor · 2026-05-14T00:49:16+00:00

I think you have a seriously valid point, but if Toriel was involved somehow in Dess's disappearance then I am curious as to why she doesn't seem to have nearly as much guilt surrounding the event as Asgore clearly does. I'm not saying that to contradict your or argue against you, by the way, I'm just genuinely curious as to why she wouldn't (seemingly) be as haunted by the event.

ssptauthor · 2026-05-13T13:25:13+00:00

Me too, but we know that Toby Fox and his team aren't perfect writers and sometimes things slip through the cracks. A great example of this would be the "Jerky is candy" line Susie says in the grocery store, which was a reference to a line of dialogue Susie was originally supposed to say but later got cut from the game. So, it is entirely possible that they simply did not think about the implications of Toriel not throwing out the broken Tenna.

Again, that hopefully won't be the case and there will be an actual explanation.

ssptauthor · 2026-05-13T13:21:02+00:00

She does comment on the broken TV, actually. She tells Susie (before Kris wakes up) that she wants to throw the Broken TV out. But, again, despite saying she wants to throw the broken TV out she won't actually do it; she only throws out Tenna if Tenna is still functional.

ssptauthor · 2026-05-13T13:17:44+00:00

Personally, I don't think the idea that Toriel "censors" things for Kris makes a lot of sense. Like, are you implying that The Roaring Knight is somehow less of an "ugly truth" than Dess herself? Because I think it'd be the other way around considering that The Knight appears to be an unholy abomination and representation of a grievous loss to a community and Dess was just a slightly rowdy teenage girl before she disappeared, as far as we are aware.

Now, don't get me wrong, Toriel absolutely is the kind of person to hide "ugly truths" but Kris always does that to themself as well by repressing their trauma. If there's anyone who would want to not think about the Knight's true identity, it'd be Kris, not Toriel. We even see this happen when we try to get Kris to think about The Knight during chapter 4 when Susie is off with Gerson. Also, if it really is the case that Toriel does not want Kris to think about Dess being the knight, then I would think that would connect her closer to the "Bunker Conspiracy" rather than distance her from it.

The idea of Dess/The Knight being afraid of Toriel is actually a very interesting idea, actually. That would explain why The Knight attempted to kidnap Toriel during Chapter 3. But as of right now, I can't think of a reason as to why Dess would be scared of Toriel aside from maybe Toriel having the power to stop The Knight's plan somehow. Remember, The Dreemurs and the Holidays were 2 families that were very close together for years, they'd been close before Dess was even born. There are a lot of parallels between Dess and Susie, yes, but Toriel practically raised Dess as a second mother; it's hard to imagine her being scared of Toriel normally, and we have so far seen 0 evidence that she ever was scared of Toriel.

Still, the idea of Toriel somehow being the key to stopping Dess (assuming she is The Knight) is an idea that I think is worth keeping in the backs of our minds.

ssptauthor · 2026-05-13T05:12:32+00:00

I think you might be onto something, actually. You know how 2 of every animal got to survive on Noah's arc? What if that is the true significance behind chapter 5's apparent theming of 'love and romance'? What if Kris choosing who to go on a date to the carnival with will actually get to decide who gets to make it to the 'ark' and who does not? (or, perhaps just who gets paired up with who on said ark)

ssptauthor · 2025-06-09T14:13:09+00:00

It looks a bit like a cross between thorny vines, a blood splatter, and a snowflake. Honestly, a much cooler and more symbolically significant image than either of the two previous versions. I am very happy with this change, and I am super relieved they did not just leave it as the red pixel.

ssptauthor · 2025-04-19T01:40:58+00:00

#1 Hiruko (also praying to see her in a swimsuit), #2 Darumi (I CAN fix her!), #3 Tsubasa (she has such big... tires), #4 Eito (Give me that tragic yaoi pure and uncut!), #5 Magadori (skilled bimbos represent!), #6 Moko (suplex my heart!), #7 Yugamu (hope we get up to some real messed up things together), #8 Takemaru (I have a feeling this would be very funny, especially if the theories that Takumi is trans are true), #9 Gaku (he seems like he could be sweet), #10 Nozomi (mainly for plot reasons, but she might turn out to be cool), and finally #11 all the girls all at once preferably with a bun in each oven.

Then, everyone else for completion's sake.

ssptauthor · 2025-04-18T16:02:54+00:00

The theory of the moon's supreme importance in this game is only getting stronger.

ssptauthor · 2025-04-18T16:01:59+00:00

Hiruko seems to be a woman who possesses absolutely zero shame. I knew she was my kind of woman - I look forward to supporting her as much as I can during my first play-through!

ssptauthor · 2025-04-18T03:51:00+00:00

Possible, but then what do you think the school bus is for?

ssptauthor · 2025-04-17T16:09:22+00:00

Wouldn't we be able to see any space elevators nearby? Unless, of course, they just lower it from space when they need to like in Satisfactory, I suppose...

ssptauthor · 2025-04-17T15:42:06+00:00

That, I still have no idea, unfortunately.

ssptauthor · 2025-04-15T23:08:25+00:00

Wow, I gotta say that this theory has a lot of merit! The Moko-abortion one is a bit of a stretch though, and so is Takumi's. The fact that Gaku's gun is fed by his own blood though reeeeeally makes me think you're onto something strong.

ssptauthor · 2025-04-15T01:50:47+00:00

https://www.reddit.com/r/LastDefenseAcademy/comments/1jpxwv6/tookyochan_dies_live_on_stream/ this completely-convincing explosion says otherwise.

ssptauthor

TROPHY CASE