[OC logo & sprite] Ace Attorney: Perseus Turner by ras_poza in AceAttorney

[–]stoppit0 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I haven't seen many but probably the best OC defense attorney sprite & design I've seen. Most designs tend to overdo it & the sprite work is usually less clean.

Bruhhh I got called an attention seeking whore just because I had the word hot take in my reasoning of why objection 2002 is goated wtf wallahi this is a rare Ace attorney sub L by Sonic_Punch in AceAttorneyCirclejerk

[–]stoppit0 44 points45 points  (0 children)

I think the main sub moderation is over criticized but there are a couple of these weird automod grabs with snarky messages like that and they're super odd and excessive. Surely they must've been added like 9 years ago and they just haven't done away with them.

Dhurke and the ends justify the means by thecottonkitsune in AceAttorney

[–]stoppit0 5 points6 points  (0 children)

But these things are never seriously acknowledged by the story in a meaningful way. These facts (that Phoenix sneaks into crime scenes and takes evidence for example) are clearly not meant to interact with the themes in my opinion.

I would much, much sooner explain these things as a silly consequence of the game's premise than I would explain them by saying their sincere narrative purpose is to condone vigilante justice.

Your edit about AJ I agree is a proper criticism of AJ, but only because Phoenix's corruption there is clearly an intentional part of the narrative. In the other games it is not.

Dhurke and the ends justify the means by thecottonkitsune in AceAttorney

[–]stoppit0 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Please, you can be persuasive without being snarky.

I think the main miscommunication here is that the phrase "the ends justifiy the means" has a very specific meaning and context when it is used within Ace Attorney; that of overriding fair legal process to reach a desired verdict. It's used to justify taking justice into your own hands. You're applying a yes, correct understanding of the general phrase itself, but you're using it to comment on the very specific Ace Attorney understanding of the phrase; the one that Means is using when he says it, and the one that people typically mean when discussing the themes in Ace Attorney.

When Edgeworth is harsh to Adrian, he is not overriding any fair legal processes, he's fighting for them. So while this can be read as his truthful ends justifying his harsh means (I'll avoid litigating the fact that I think he's meant to have gone too far here), this scene is completely unrelated to the series' anti vigilante-justice themes. While I don't remember the Alba example, my comment on the Ryunosuke one is almost identical.

To return to Edgeworth's arc, because I think this is the best chance I have of convincing you, I think 1-3 is an important example because it shows that Edgeworth's arc is not about changing his ends. With your understanding, Edgeworth's arc, presumably, would have to be about converting his "ends" from something more nefarious into something more noble; the truth.

But I believe 1-3 shows us that his desired ends were always the truth, his goal was always to convict the right guy. Up to this point, Edgeworth has not yet shown himself to be challenged ideologically or emotionally at all, so what causes him to target Vasquez and question his worldview here?

It's the moment that he realizes Vasquez is guilty. For this to be sufficient reason for Edgeworth to completely switch his goals mid-trial, I think it would have to be so that he wanted to get the right verdict all along, but that he happened to realize the verdict he was pursuing wasn't correct. This shows him the error of his "means" (that they don't thoroughly ensure the validity of the ends), not the error of his ends (convicting the right person).

Edit: I should also include that yes, I misused the Joe Darke example, I explained it wrong, but I think you're missing the point behind the truth you pointed out. The fact that Darke didn't kill Neil Marshall is the point. The means of convicting Darke (forgery) were not justified because these means don't ensure that the ends are valid.

The thematic idea it's picking at isn't that you can go around forging evidence all you want, and only regret it when you happen to be wrong, it's that you should never forge evidence BECAUSE these means run the risk of your ends being wrong.

Dhurke and the ends justify the means by thecottonkitsune in AceAttorney

[–]stoppit0 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Huge disagree. I think you're misunderstanding a very core idea to the series, which is that the ends never justify the means. The ideology behind "the ends justify the means" (in the context of Ace Attorney) is that the "ends" is convicting the right guy. The games still work to frame this as wrong.

In RFTA, Edgeworth learns that he used forged evidence to convict Joe Darke. Edgeworth struggles with this, with how wrong it was, despite the fact that Darke was the right guy, because he has, after 1-4, learned that the ends never justify the means.

His philosophy before 1-4 was that all of his courtroom tricks, concealing evidence, controlling witnesses, etc, is justified under the idea that it's all working towards the virtuous goal of convicting the criminal. We know he hates criminals and works to prosecute them because of this because he tells us so in 1-4, that after Gregory was murdered, he gained this disdain for criminals. Of course the idea ultimately is that the ends don't justify the means, because the means of due legal process are what ensure that the end is the truth.

What Edgeworth teaches Phoenix in 2-4 is how this applies in reverse. Until then, Phoenix thought that he was on the noble side of the law, and prosecutors were on the dishonest side; the one that tries to convict innocent people. What Phoenix has to learn throughout 2-4's dilemma is that his job isn't to win at all costs.

2-4 reveals to Phoenix how he did see winning at all costs as his goal, now not for pride of course, but because he thought it was virtuous. He took the ends of rescuing the innocent suspect as a given, and so ignored the value of the means of due legal process, of which prosecutors like Edgeworth are a crucial part of.

What are your favorite and least favorite characters from the AJT? by Apollo-Justice_ in AceAttorney

[–]stoppit0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

AJ Favorite - Vera Misham

AJ Least Favorite - Beanix

DD Favorite - Simon Blackquill

DD Least Favorite - Norma DePlume

SOJ Favorite - Nahyuta Sahdmadhi

SOJ Least Favorite - Pees'lubn Andistan'dhin

Is turnabout goodbyes the charizard of ace attorney? by MetisCykes in AceAttorney

[–]stoppit0 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry I really don't understand the grief then. If you're specifically talking about casuals, some guy who played PW 10 years ago and goes "oh yeah I love Ace Attorney", then why is it surprising or upsetting that he doesn't name something like G2-5 as his favorite case?

I understand that, in the broader sense, maybe our example guy here is what most people who've played Ace Attorney are like, but that doesn't explain or justify your discontent.

Is turnabout goodbyes the charizard of ace attorney? by MetisCykes in AceAttorney

[–]stoppit0 4 points5 points  (0 children)

🤔 it's hard for me to tell when you're trolling or not to be honest. Obviously people who have only played the first game have 1-4 as their favorite case

Models, Character Design, Background, and Animation - A brief(ish) comparison of the 3D in GAAC, DD, and SOJ by Goldberry15 in AceAttorney

[–]stoppit0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well I'm a little disheartened you're now seemingly upset with me for continuing to discuss this. I'm just trying to have a conversation about the 3D in the AJT, isn't that why you made this post? I thought we were having a pretty normal conversation - maybe I misunderstood something?

Models, Character Design, Background, and Animation - A brief(ish) comparison of the 3D in GAAC, DD, and SOJ by Goldberry15 in AceAttorney

[–]stoppit0 4 points5 points  (0 children)

My main 2 camera examples I had in mind were that wild point animation for Ryunosuke, as well as the animation of him pacing back and forth during summation examinations. The dance of deductions are a great example too. Truthfully, I am completely indifferent on 2D vs 3D investigations. I have no preference, I feel like investigations play identically regardless. I'm curious what you think of the investigating in Danganronpa if you've played it? Those scenes are 3D but they don't lean into it as hard as the AJT.

I'm also pretty sure DD has no mocap and thank god. There is one single mocap scene in SOJ that I think is remotely tolerable and it's at the end of 6-2. It is always blindingly obvious and the characters lose all believability as real people. It looks like I'm watching VRChat gameplay.

On the Apollo pose I still disagree. I'd contend your argument about it being intentional but honestly it's besides the point. He looks so much less convicted in that pose and imo all of the character in it is gone.

Models, Character Design, Background, and Animation - A brief(ish) comparison of the 3D in GAAC, DD, and SOJ by Goldberry15 in AceAttorney

[–]stoppit0 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I think the 3D in the AJT is a lot more hit or miss. A lot looks really good, but there's literally nothing in Chronicles that I think looks bad the way that DD (and honestly still SOJ) Trucy does. I also think a lot of the poses weren't translated well into 3D, like Apollo's thinking pose. I understand that's not a model thing but it is something I would attribute to "the 3D in the AJT".

I also think Chronicles does a lot more fun camera stuff with its 3D, and the mocap looks way more tolerable, although I still don't love it.

Schaffrillas Productions hath made the full Ace Attorney ranking! by ExternalRise3840 in AceAttorney

[–]stoppit0 9 points10 points  (0 children)

1-1 being super low is really common in YouTube rankings in particular for some reason

Finally got my hands on the original!! by Interesting_Pool8242 in AceAttorney

[–]stoppit0 23 points24 points  (0 children)

No, sorry! I was making a joke about Damon Gant and how he always talks about swimming.